Are Clerics with no deity allowed?

[Philipp Menn]

Greetings!

I have just read again the Guide to Organized Play and this time I noticed a little something that I found a bit confusing: At character creation it says in point 11/Religion:

"Characters can elect to worship any deity listed in a table of gods in the Core Rulebook, The Inner Sea World Guide, Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Gods and Magic, or any other source listed as an official Additional Resource. Characters may elect to worship an evil god, but must always be within one alignment step of their chosen deity. For clerics, this is an especially important choice, since the deity’s alignment determines whether the cleric channels positive or negative energy, a decision with significant tactical implications for the cleric and her allies. Characters who do not receive powers from a divine source may choose to be atheists or to have no deity at all. "

Does this mean that in the PFS only clerics are permitted to belong to a named deity and that no separate religions are allowed (two domains of your choice, no favorite weapon, everything's fine) or is all just an indication that you should think twice about the divinity of your character, because this decision marks the benefit to the group significantly?

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

clerics must choose a deity in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. Their alignment must be within one step of their chosen Deity's alignment. And the character cannot be evil.

[Jiggy]

But if memory serves, the Separatist archetype is legal.

[Cheapy]

In Golarion, there are no clerics of philosophies. You're either a cleric of a deity, or you aren't a cleric.

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

Jiggy wrote:

But if memory serves, the Separatist archetype is legal.

Yes, but that just lets you pick a domain your deity doesn't normally allow.

[Jiggy]

Andrew Christian wrote:

Jiggy wrote:

But if memory serves, the Separatist archetype is legal.

Yes, but that just lets you pick a domain your deity doesn't normally allow.

Right. It's been my experience that most folks asking the OP's question are interested in a philosophy cleric in order to pair a couple of domains that normally don't go together under any legal deities (that they're aware of). In such a case, the Separatist is the best chance of playing the character they want, so I threw it out there.

[Philipp Menn]

Too bad. That makes a lot of nice character concepts impossible. Golarion should actually be big enough to admit players own small religions or not? Well, so are the rules of the Pathfinder Society...

[Funky Badger]

Philipp Menn wrote:

Too bad. That makes a lot of nice character concepts impossible. Golarion should actually be big enough to admit players own small religions or not? Well, so are the rules of the Pathfinder Society...

Not, would seem to be the fairly obvious answer.

[minneyar]

Philipp Menn wrote:

Too bad. That makes a lot of nice character concepts impossible. Golarion should actually be big enough to admit players own small religions or not? Well, so are the rules of the Pathfinder Society...

Two reasons for the restriction are because it restricts powergaming and helps to promote roleplaying. As a cleric, choosing to worship a god means that you also have to follow that god's philosophy and observe their practices. Also, since you also have a small list of domains to choose from, it helps the designers to keep interactions between different domain powers balanced. If a cleric can choose to be any alignment with any domains they want and not be obligated to follow any code of conduct, that removes a lot of the flavor of the class. It would encourage players to build optimized clerics rather than build ones that fit within the campaign setting.

By the way, I'll point out one more thing that differs from standard Pathfinder rules, as long as we're on the subject:

Quote:

Characters may elect to worship an evil god, but must always be within one alignment step of their chosen deity.

Even if you are not a divine caster, if you worship a god, you must be within one step of your god's alignment. A lot of people miss that detail.

[Bearded Ben]

If you have two domains in mind, you could ask the board if anyone knows of an obscure PFS legal deity with those domains.

[Philipp Menn]

I understand the rule design and the wish for balancing.
But I don't understand the world design which includes that it is allowed to play clerics of any evil deity on the one hand, and on the other hand it is not allowed to follow a philosophy which bringst together several good aligned gods in a pantheon.
Like I said it is okay for me. Those are the rules and I can live with that.
But these same rules ensure that I will probably never play a cleric in the Pathfinder Society. :/

I thank everyone who has here taken the time to help me with my original question.
It is good and important to know the exact rules of the Pathfinder Society.
Thank you all!

[Sarta]

Philosophies are definitely allowed. Following one simply doesn't provide divine spells or the ability to channel, so cleric is out. Prophets of Kalistrade cast arcane spells, for example. Followers of the false god, Razmir, also do not have access to divine magic or the ability to channel.

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

You can follow a philosophy, you just have to pick one of the deities that you are a "worshiper" (basically who grants your divine powers and spells) of.

[SCPRedMage]

Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, page 10 wrote:

Clerics, inquisitors, paladins, cavaliers of the order of the star, and samurai of the order of the star must choose a deity as all classes in Golarion that receive spells and abilities from a specific divine source receive their powers from a deity. Druids, oracles, and rangers are the exception to this rule. The list is not exhaustive, and divine spellcasters of any future classes whose sources are added as additional resources to the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign will be required to choose a deity unless otherwise specified.

Emphasis mine. In this campaign setting, you can only gain divine power from a deity, with the notable exception of druids and rangers (who gain their power from primal nature forces); even an oracle's power comes from a deity, although the oracle needn't worship them, and thus doesn't have to choose one.

Bottom line: if you're not a tree-hugging class, your divine power HAS to come from a deity in this setting.

[minneyar]

Philipp Menn wrote:

But I don't understand the world design which includes that it is allowed to play clerics of any evil deity on the one hand, and on the other hand it is not allowed to follow a philosophy which bringst together several good aligned gods in a pantheon.

For what it's worth, I see where you're coming and I agree with you. Historically, it's not very realistic for somebody in a pantheistic society to devote themselves solely to a single deity. In ancient Greece, if you were travelling on a ship, you'd say a prayer to Poseidon. If you were sending a message, you'd say a prayer to Hermes. When you planted crops, you'd say a prayer to Demeter. People didn't worship one specific deity, they worshipped the entire pantheon. Even priests would perform rituals for different deities depending on what their community needed.

It's one thing that I don't really like about Golarion, but there aren't many other campaign settings that get it right, either; Eberron is the only one that comes to mind immediately where pantheon worship is prevalent. But, that's the way it is.

[Mergy]

I suppose the Green Faith doesn't count for the purposes of clericdom? What about the Whispering Way?

It could easily be Gozreh and Urgathoa respectively I suppose.

[nosig]

Phillip Reed wrote:

Philipp Menn wrote:

But I don't understand the world design which includes that it is allowed to play clerics of any evil deity on the one hand, and on the other hand it is not allowed to follow a philosophy which bringst together several good aligned gods in a pantheon.

For what it's worth, I see where you're coming and I agree with you. Historically, it's not very realistic for somebody in a pantheistic society to devote themselves solely to a single deity. In ancient Greece, if you were travelling on a ship, you'd say a prayer to Poseidon. If you were sending a message, you'd say a prayer to Hermes. When you planted crops, you'd say a prayer to Demeter. People didn't worship one specific deity, they worshipped the entire pantheon. Even priests would perform rituals for different deities depending on what their community needed.

It's one thing that I don't really like about Golarion, but there aren't many other campaign settings that get it right, either; Eberron is the only one that comes to mind immediately where pantheon worship is prevalent. But, that's the way it is.

Rune Quest (2nd ed.) was very Pantheon centered...

[minneyar]

Adam Mogyorodi wrote:

I suppose the Green Faith doesn't count for the purposes of clericdom? What about the Whispering Way?

True, there are a couple of options for people who prefer to follow philosophies. There's also the Prophecies of Kalistrade, I believe. Still, that's not a lot of options, and following a philosophy isn't quite the same as pantheon worship.

[Sarta]

nosig wrote:

Rune Quest (2nd ed.) was very Pantheon centered...

It isn't that Glorantha (Runequest) is very pantheistic. Individuals still only typically initiate with a single deity (with a few exceptions like the Red Mothers). Priests and Rune Lords only hold this office for a single god.

The real difference I see is that Golarion is far more cosmopolitan. If you live in a particular town of Glorantha, you have your own myths, stories, and heroes. These can differ from those of the town just four miles away. There isn't just one set of myths for the gods, but multiple stories which may conflict and depict the gods in totally different lights: one can worship Orlanth Rex, Orlanth Adventurous, Orlanth Dragon-Breaker, Orlanth Lawspeaker, Orlanth Goodvoice, or Little Brother (Storm Bull's little brother and the bringer of rain in Prax).

In Golarion, things feels much more modern and cosmopolitan in nature. Upon becoming an adult, one just has to shop for the god they wish (or don't -- it's all cool) to follow and that choice is (for the most part) ok with everyone back home.

A lot of that probably has to do with using Absalom as the main setting of PFS, but for the most part, parochialism is avoided because it doesn't engender inclusiveness.