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can you in PFS get a heightened Continual Flame item and if so how?
Only if you can cast the spell yourself and have the Heighten metamagic feat yourself. Then you’d record your casting of the spell on your chronicle sheet and only one iteration of continual flame is allowed to persist from scenario to scenario.
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can you in PFS get a heightened Continual Flame item and if so how?Only if you can cast the spell yourself and have the Heighten metamagic feat yourself. Then you’d record your casting of the spell on your chronicle sheet and only one iteration of continual flame is allowed to persist from scenario to scenario.
If you provide the 50 gp ruby dust material component, is there any reason you couldn't have the PC Cleric cast it on an item you already own?
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If you provide the 50 gp ruby dust material component, is there any reason you couldn't have the PC Cleric cast it on an item you already own?can you in PFS get a heightened Continual Flame item and if so how?Only if you can cast the spell yourself and have the Heighten metamagic feat yourself. Then you’d record your casting of the spell on your chronicle sheet and only one iteration of continual flame is allowed to persist from scenario to scenario.
I don't see why not, as long as the other PC isn't spending any of their own money to make the casting happen.
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I assume the question is prompted by some unpleasant experience with Darkness? I've been wondering the same sort of thing. Here's something that might help. It's not a perfect solution but it might go some way to addressing the problem.
Hire an NPC Cleric to cast Continual Flame. Since C.F. is a *third* level Cleric spell, this will not only negate Darkness but will also be undispellable by Darkness. So for a mere 200 gold ((CL 5 x SL 3 x 10) + 50), the party's safe from all those dark nasties that PFS so loves for at least a few levels (i.e. until one of them gets Deeper Darkness!).
Does that hold up? I've poked around some and it looks solid, but the Darkness rules are such a tangle to sort out I may have talked myself into something false.
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The relevant text from the guide:
All potions, scrolls, wands, and other consumables are made by clerics, druids, or wizards in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. The only exceptions are spells that are not on the cleric, druid, or wizard spell list. For example, a scroll of lesser restoration m ust b e p urchased as a 2nd-level scroll off the cleric spell list and may not be purchased as a 1st-level scroll off the paladin spell list. If a spell appears at different levels on two different lists, use the lower level spell to determine cost. As an example, poison would be priced as a 3rd-level druid spell instead of a 4th-level cleric spell.
Nosig, unless that NPC had the spell specifically memorized for whatever reasons, I would say no. The rule's are explicitly clear.
This also means that ioun torches and everburning torchesare all based off the Wizard, not Cleric spell list as well.
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Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I'm still not quite clear (despite the apparently simple text Andrew cites), and I'm working up a longer post (probably to go into a new thread) requesting clarification.
you could just get one from the next PC cleric of 5th level or higher that you play with.
Yup. But I'm worried about levels 1-3!
PS: from your statement "...this will not only negate Darkness but will also be undispellable by Darkness." it appears that you beleave that the Continual Flame would be dispelled by coming in contact with the AOE of the darkness spell. It is not - though a creature COULD dispel the Continual Flame (either level) by casting darkness and touching the source of the Continual Flame. The AOE does not dispel it - Darkness is a touch range and would have to be cast on the object with the Continual Flame on it.
I was unclear, then. I meant the targeted dispel. This raises a separate question: do you really have to touch the object you're trying to dispel? I wasn't aware (I've only been playing since January! Still pretty new here).
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The Pathfinder magic system as a whole contains a mechanic for "dispelling" active spells. The spell you're using to perform the dispel has to target the same object/creature/area that the effect you're trying to dispel targeted, using the normal range and targeting restrictions for the spell you're using.
For instance, if you want to dispel bless, you would have to cast either bless (by default, any spell can be used to dispel another instance of the same spell) or bane (spells with diametrically opposed effects can often dispel each other, noted in the spells' descriptions). In either case, you're casting an area spell, so you just need to have the intended targets within the area and announce that you're casting to dispel instead of just plain casting.
If a nasty monster with a fear aura didn't like that you had a remove fear active on you, he could cast cause fear to dispel it. You would have to be within cause fear's range, and he would select you as a target as normal, and announce that he was casting to dispel instead of just casting it for its normal effect.
And if there's a darkness effect active on an object, you could dispel it by casting a light spell of equal or greater level onto the same target, announcing that you're casting to dispel instead of just casting normally. You would still use the normal range and targeting rules for whatever light spell you were casting, which probably means you're going to have to touch the object. (I'm not aware of any ranged light spells.)
In any of the above cases, the spell is automatically dispelled once you've successfully cast the appropriate spell onto the targets. The spell you cast produces no other effects; it just dispels. In the case of dispel magic, you trade that reliability (automatic dispelling) for versatility. Instead of only being able to dispel itself or a specific, opposite spell; dispel magic can attempt to dispel ANY spell (using its own range, as normal, which might or might not be better than the range of the spell you would otherwise need), but you have to make a "dispel check", and can therefore fail.
Follow all that? ;)
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Yes, that's the problem, Mike. The same text is cited in other recent threads on the question, but I don't think it clears it up. Especially because other restrictions are reproduced in the Spellcasting Services section, and because the problem in the Potions, Scrolls, and Wands section is one of cost and who can use the item (see the next bit not included: "For the sake of simplicity, there is no difference between an arcane and divine scroll or wand in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.")
I can't think of a case other than Continual Flame in which this would actually matter, but still.
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The Pathfinder magic system as a whole contains a mechanic for "dispelling" active spells.
Thanks for the explanation, Jiggy. Do you know where in the sourcebooks I can find all this explained? I don't see it in a skim-through of Ch. 9 (Magic) in the Core Rulebook.
In any of the above cases, the spell is automatically dispelled once you've successfully cast the appropriate spell onto the targets. The spell you cast produces no other effects; it just dispels.
So no Caster Level check as when using Dispel Magic?
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This also means that ioun torches and everburning torchesare all based off the Wizard, not Cleric spell list as well.Andrew - since those items have caster levels listed with them, if the CL is higher than the lower of the two, does that make a difference?
The caster level listed for an ioun torch is listed as 12th. That just means a 12th level wizard needs to create an ioun torch in PFS. It doesn't change the fact that the spell level of continual flame is 2nd. It is the spell level that is considered in how it interacts with the various darkness spells, not the caster level.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
The Pathfinder magic system as a whole contains a mechanic for "dispelling" active spells.Thanks for the explanation, Jiggy. Do you know where in the sourcebooks I can find all this explained? I don't see it in a skim-through of Ch. 9 (Magic) in the Core Rulebook.
Sorry for the delay in replying. The answer is... complicated.
Have a look HERE. (And while you're at it, please click the FAQ button on the top-right of that post so we can get things "officialized".)
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So if you have another PC cast heightened continual flame , say as a 4th or 5th level spell, and record it on your chronicle sheet. a future GM is expected to honor that you played at a table where this was cast? this smacks of magic item creation. Yes its legal to carry a casting of continual flame, or masterwork transformation. but it doesn't say anything about heightened versions.
If some caster made one for every PC at a table i was GM'ing. I'd have no problem with it, during the game. But I'd be very dubious if I had some guy sit down and claim that he had one, even if it was listed on his sheet.
Part of no-magic item creation in PFS is the GM doesn't have to deal with crafted magical items.
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So if you have another PC cast heightened continual flame , say as a 4th or 5th level spell, and record it on your chronicle sheet. a future GM is expected to honor that you played at a table where this was cast? this smacks of magic item creation. Yes its legal to carry a casting of continual flame, or masterwork transformation. but it doesn't say anything about heightened versions.
If some caster made one for every PC at a table i was GM'ing. I'd have no problem with it, during the game. But I'd be very dubious if I had some guy sit down and claim that he had one, even if it was listed on his sheet.
Part of no-magic item creation in PFS is the GM doesn't have to deal with crafted magical items.
"Dubious" or not, it's entirely legal under the current rules and you would be required to honor it. (So long as it's properly recorded on the Chronicle, with the GM's initials.) See e.g. the brief exchange in this more recent Darkness thread.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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For instance, if you want to dispel bless, you would have to cast either bless (by default, any spell can be used to dispel another instance of the same spell)This is incorrect. The same spell can be used to counterspell a spell as it is being cast.
You can use dispel magic to dispel it, or you can use a specific spell that specifically counters and dispels it.
You are confusing countering a spell with dispelling one.
Ah, indeed. Whoops.
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Ah, indeed. Whoops.For instance, if you want to dispel bless, you would have to cast either bless (by default, any spell can be used to dispel another instance of the same spell)This is incorrect. The same spell can be used to counterspell a spell as it is being cast.
You can use dispel magic to dispel it, or you can use a specific spell that specifically counters and dispels it.
You are confusing countering a spell with dispelling one.
it is a sad day when Jiggy misses one. :(
Reminds me of the Great Brownie Mis-call, where-in Jiggy claimed mushy center cut bronies were better than the prime crunchy edge cut brownies.
Yes, a dark day, when the Great misses a call - but thankfully it is a rare event. One day of morning, wearing black armbands, etc.
You may have your edge-cut hard-candies, good sir. I will take as much of the center cut as I am offered, for they have superior consistency and meld better with vanilla ice cream.
Outside. Middle, upfront!
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The caster level listed for an ioun torch is listed as 12th. That just means a 12th level wizard needs to create an ioun torch in PFS. It doesn't change the fact that the spell level of continual flame is 2nd. It is the spell level that is considered in how it interacts with the various darkness spells, not the caster level.A few things are wrong here as well.
First caster level is not needed to make the item. It is the default level that effects the item generates uses however.
Second the CL of the item is due to the burned out ioun stone (which from the description is the real wondrous item here) and not the simple casting of continual flame upon it.
For reference:
This item is merely a burned out, dull gray ioun stone with a continual flame spell cast upon it.Third the PFS house rule on consumables does not apply to this as it is in no way a consumable. You really should inquire in the rules section for this, but spell casting services is the closest and I'm not sure whether PFS has a house rule on those (which would make things like getting a neutralize poison or remove disease pointless, and many instances far more deadly than they should be).
-James
I don't see how anything I said above is in conflict with what you've said.
An ioun torch does not use its caster level of 12 to determine how the continual light spell cast on it interacts with other magic.
If you are just being pedantic about whether a 12th level wizard would need to be the one to cast the continual flame or not, then that is not relevant to this conversation at all. So quit it. Additionally, in PFS, because the caster level of the ioun torch is 12, then it would have to be a 12th level wizard's casting of continual flame. Since we are in the PFS message boards, then this applies perfectly for the question asked.
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"Dubious" or not, it's entirely legal under the current rules and you would be required to honor it. (So long as it's properly recorded on the Chronicle, with the GM's initials.) See e.g. the brief exchange in this more recent Darkness thread.
Documented or not, its not like there's a way for me to track down that GM and verify that those are his initials, that that is his pfs #, or that he even wrote that.
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Documented or not, its not like there's a way for me to track down that GM and verify that those are his initials, that that is his pfs #, or that he even wrote that."Dubious" or not, it's entirely legal under the current rules and you would be required to honor it. (So long as it's properly recorded on the Chronicle, with the GM's initials.) See e.g. the brief exchange in this more recent Darkness thread.
You cant just look up the event number and contact the VC for that area? I would imagine if there was a discrepancy the VC would know who the GM and player are if it is an active area.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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Documented or not, its not like there's a way for me to track down that GM and verify that those are his initials, that that is his pfs #, or that he even wrote that."Dubious" or not, it's entirely legal under the current rules and you would be required to honor it. (So long as it's properly recorded on the Chronicle, with the GM's initials.) See e.g. the brief exchange in this more recent Darkness thread.
There's no way for you to verify the GP or XP awards on the chronicle are correct, either (or that any conditions were cleared, spells learned, etc.).
The paper chronicle is, by default, the official record. You're going to need some pretty hard evidence that something is amiss before you choose to disbelieve what's written on one.
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Documented or not, its not like there's a way for me to track down that GM and verify that those are his initials, that that is his pfs #, or that he even wrote that."Dubious" or not, it's entirely legal under the current rules and you would be required to honor it. (So long as it's properly recorded on the Chronicle, with the GM's initials.) See e.g. the brief exchange in this more recent Darkness thread.
Like you can verify anything else fak..erm written on a chronicle sheet.
Hold on while I make myself a level 12 credit baby....
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Documented or not, its not like there's a way for me to track down that GM and verify that those are his initials, that that is his pfs #, or that he even wrote that."Dubious" or not, it's entirely legal under the current rules and you would be required to honor it. (So long as it's properly recorded on the Chronicle, with the GM's initials.) See e.g. the brief exchange in this more recent Darkness thread.
Then why are any chronicles actually valid?
Lets not get silly in our comments, it doesn't help anything.
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I don't see how anything I said above is in conflict with what you've said.Andrew,
You, and another poster were making some rules mistakes.. both in PFS and outside of it. I just was attempting to fix that before they propagated to others... that's how these things persist, especially in organized play where you essentially have two sources for rules that can come into conflict. If I am mistaken about any of these, then that should be ironed out... more so if you are.
A continual flame spell is not a consumable, and doesn't fall under the rules for consumables.
A cleric could be hired to cast a continual flame spell for a PC. If PP were not used, then the caster could be higher level than normal.
Likewise a PC cleric could cast continual flame on an object that they carry around and keep it (singular) for future sessions.
I see nothing in the guide to indicate that makes a distinction between PC and NPC casting in regards to this.
I'm not sure about some of the other PFS specific rules that you are mentioning, or where they would be found. Could you include references?
That's for PFS.
For core rules, the caster level is not mandatory for item creation. A DC 22 spellcraft check can make an ioun stone. At 3rd level a wizard with create wondrous items could make such an item. His spellcraft bonus could be: +12 (3ranks +3class +4INT +2feat(magical aptitude)) and he could hit that DC on a take 10.
James, if you want to comment on PFS specific rules, read the guide first. Then we'll talk.
But you cannot go to an NPC caster and get a heightened spell cast in PFS.
Secondly, nothing I said contradicted what you are saying here.
Typically, you do have to be the items caster level to create the item. Sure, there are rules for how to do so otherwise. So what. There is no magic item crafting in PFS.
All the rest then becomes semantics of RAW vs. RAI and all that. It is immaterial to this argument.
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You don't have to be the item's caster level to create a magic item. You need only possess the feat and spells(you dont even HAVE to have those they just increase the DC if you don't.) In the case of an arcane bond you need only be high enough level to qualify for the feat but do not require the feat. This is the only way i see to create magic items in society. If you make an item at lower CL you just note it on your chronicle sheet for dispel purposes.
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You can't create magic items in Pathfinder Society. Period.
You can, however, use arcane bond to add magic properties to your bonded item, which effectively creates a magic item that only the wizard can use. You do not have to be the caster level of the item for creation as it uses the normal rules for magic item creation. That was really the intent of my post.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/faq
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James, if you want to comment on PFS specific rules, read the guide first. Then we'll talk.I did, so start talking. Even downloaded the latest version to double check in case I missed an update.
So when you do talk and you mention rules, could you give the reference?
-James
Well if you've read the guide, the FAQ, and all the message board clarifications, then you know the rules of PFS crafting.
So why do I need to reference anything for you?
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If PP were not used, then the caster could be higher level than normal.
I agree with all the above except the bolded part.
When PP are not used, then the normal rules for spell casting services apply.
You can get a 2nd level cleric to cast a cure light wounds spell on you for 1d8+2 for 20gp. Now why you'd do that rather than hire a 1st level cleric to cast two on you for that 20gp.
So if you wish to hire a 6th level cleric to cast remove curse, then you can do so. The restriction is only on PP spent for casting services.
-James
That isn't so. Spellcasting services follow the same minimum CL rule as potions and wands and scrolls.
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That isn't so. Spellcasting services follow the same minimum CL rule as potions and wands and scrolls.If PP were not used, then the caster could be higher level than normal.
I agree with all the above except the bolded part.
When PP are not used, then the normal rules for spell casting services apply.
You can get a 2nd level cleric to cast a cure light wounds spell on you for 1d8+2 for 20gp. Now why you'd do that rather than hire a 1st level cleric to cast two on you for that 20gp.
So if you wish to hire a 6th level cleric to cast remove curse, then you can do so. The restriction is only on PP spent for casting services.
-James
Do you have a source for that claim? I'm not doubting you—it makes sense, and my VC has personally ruled this to be true —, but I looked pretty thoroughly, thought I did my due diligence, and couldn't find anything. So I'd appreciate a clear source just to have one. Thanks!