Shadow using items....


Rules Questions

The Exchange

Could a shadow wear a Ghost Touch amulet of Mighty Fists? I have never seen a shadow using equipment before but a player is asking if his companion could by RAW.


A "Shadow" is considered an incorporeal monster...

...so it has no physical body, and it also:

cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment.

This, to me would interpret as: they are unable to use physical items.

-S26


The Ghost Touch enchantment allows them to manipulate the physical equipment.

A ghost touched amulet is up to the GM though. I think that enchantment is only given for weapons or armor in the CRB. It should be possible to make the item, if the GM approves it.


Yeah, if you can figure out pricing for putting ghost touch on an amulet, a shadow would be able to use it as well as any other incorporeal undead. The problem would just be that wearing anything ghost touch would mean it couldn't benefit fully from incorporealness like hiding in walls/floors or moving through physical objects, because the ghost touch item would get hung-up since it can't move through the objects.


Wulf Munroe wrote:
Yeah, if you can figure out pricing for putting ghost touch on an amulet, a shadow would be able to use it as well as any other incorporeal undead. The problem would just be that wearing anything ghost touch would mean it couldn't benefit fully from incorporealness like hiding in walls/floors or moving through physical objects, because the ghost touch item would get hung-up since it can't move through the objects.

Yes they can.

PRD wrote:
Ghost Touch: This armor or shield seems almost translucent. Both its enhancement bonus and its armor bonus count against the attacks of corporeal and incorporeal creatures. It can be picked up, moved, and worn by corporeal and incorporeal creatures alike. Incorporeal creatures gain the armor's or shield's enhancement bonus against both corporeal and incorporeal attacks, and they can still pass freely through solid objects.

This is from the Magic Armor section.

The Exchange

yes but the weapons section says that the natural weapons are treated as corporeal and incorporeal. If this is added to an amulet of mighty fists then it is a weapon issue, I wouldn't allow an armor enhancement to be added to anything except armor or a shield, not an amulet.


I think you are reading things into that description that may not be intended:

PRD wrote:
Ghost Touch: A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. An incorporeal creature's 50% reduction in damage from corporeal sources does not apply to attacks made against it with ghost touch weapons. The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as both corporeal or incorporeal.

The entire entry talks about what you can damage with a ghost touched weapon and who can use a ghost touched weapon. IMO, "essentially counting as both corporeal and incorporeal," is in reference to what it can damage, and who can use it because that is all the section is talking about. Corporeal creatures can use it and damage corporeal creatures, so it counts as corporeal. Incorporeal creatures can also use it and it can damage incorporeal creatures normally, so it also counts as incorporeal. IMO, there is no indication it would not function exactly the same way as the armor enchantment. But, that's just the way I see it and would rule it. There is one indication that the way you see it might be right, that's the armor version being +3 and the weapon version being only +1, so maybe you're right.

Plus, neither the armor nor weapon versions of this enchantment are srictly suitable for an amulet anyway, so it's going to be a custom enchantment. In that regard, as long as the GM agrees and the PC has the money to pump into it, he can have it function any way he wants.

But ultimately, it's up to the GM and what he/she thinks.


There was a guy on the Wold asking about this earlier.


Actually, Shadowlord, I think the difference in enhancement value makes sense for the weapon vs the armor.

Consider that a +1 armor provides no additional defense against an incorporeal creature, but a +1 weapon deals 50% dmg to them. Under these conditions the ghost touch quality is a far more impressive effect on the armor than on the weapon, which was already having an effect.

Add in that a weapon accounts for far less material, typically, than armor and both can now effectively phase through objects when worn by an incorporeal creature, and the value adds up for the armor vs the weapon, IMO.

That said, seeing as a monk could attack with any part of their body and an amulet of mighty fists or even body wraps of mighty strikes merely confers its imbued properties on the monk's attacks, I see no reason this couldn't work. I'd even allow the incorporeal creature to use other material items that lacked that quality, though those items wouldn't gain the phasing ability.

Putting the item on an incorporeal creature might be a bit tricky, though, unless you ruled that the item itself is also affected by that quality.

At least that's my take.

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