Goblin Squad Member
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I hope that PFO will include magic items that are useful outside of combat, as well as those that inflict, heal, and mitigate damage. Magic weapons and armor, wands of magic missile, and potions of healing are great, but so are ioun stones, boots of springing and striding, and tankards of endless ale.
When all magic items can be reduced to their combat bonuses, they become a lot less exciting to me. I'd like to see items with bonuses to harvesting/gathering and crafting, bonuses to skills, maybe even just plain fun things like wands of wonder.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I could see the Lyre of Buiding being over-powered in this game!
I could see the Liar of Building, where it just tells you about all the great buildings that it built before.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I could see the Lyre of Buiding being over-powered in this game!I could see the Liar of Building, where it just tells you about all the great buildings that it built before.
"The Cathedral of the Starstone ring any bells? My work. Sure, Aroden could have built it without me, but it would have taken a century longer."
I dont think you have to stress about this, there will most definitely be all of these things, combat is only going to be a part of what goes on in the greater world.
[citation needed]
So far, everything about PFOnline has been about the combat, and a good bit of that has been about the PvP combat. Essentially, if you're going by what the devs have actually released, it's just going to strive to be EVE Online with swords and robes.
We'd all love it if it were to turn out to be more of a Minecraft experience, but the sad fact is that we're mostly just hearing a lot about Golarion-themed battlegrounds.
Where's the info about the sandbox? You know -- the world building?
I would love to be proven wrong. I want to know that there will be Portable Holes and Wizards' Private Sanctuaries, that Nondetection can be an invaluable spell and that my imp familiar isn't just a vanity pet.
But right now there isn't even a hint of anything like that. Vague promises and corporate buzzwords. "Sandbox"... oh yeah? Like with shovels and buckets, Goblinworks? Player guilds and economy, really? Complete with multicolored name tags in the vein of [xXH4Xxorz] and an auction house? Dynamic world, huh? Like, the monsters walk in circles around the zone and chase you to the end of their leash?
Less marketing, more documentation, please.
And the forums could do with a serious reality check instead of all the speculative fanboy worship and wishlists of self-contradictory features.
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Goblin Squad Member
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CraftingI dont think you have to stress about this, there will most definitely be all of these things, combat is only going to be a part of what goes on in the greater world.[citation needed]
So far, everything about PFOnline has been about the combat, and a good bit of that has been about the PvP combat. Essentially, if you're going by what the devs have actually released, it's just going to strive to be EVE Online with swords and robes.
Companies
I'm sure there are many more, but the above are from a 1 minute search of these forums.
Methinks the wood came loose and the trolls are getting out from under the bridge again.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What is it about a sandbox you do not understand? They give us the tools: we make the content. The biggest headaches they have are exactly what you are complaining of seeing.
Truly, you should think things through. The sandbox is US.
You want to know why we are enthusiastic, then you do your own reading and stop trying to use these folks to do your work for you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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CraftingNone of that information is about the sandbox aspects of the game. WoW, for example, has all those things.
CompaniesI'm sure there are many more, but the above are from a 1 minute search of these forums.
You left out the pertinent line from your quote though, "So far, everything about PFOnline has been about the combat".
The three links I provided are nothing to do with combat and all to do with other aspects of the game.
WoW does not have player settlements that can grow or ebb depending on your alliances or your enemies whims. This is a pure sandbox element - it all changes depending on what characters (players) do.
Stay tuned for more of this, I'm sure.
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Goblin Squad Member
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CraftingNone of that information is about the sandbox aspects of the game. WoW, for example, has all those things.
CompaniesI'm sure there are many more, but the above are from a 1 minute search of these forums.
*Stumpy dwarf starts nailing down loose planks in troll bridge*
WoW has independant companies that are used to solve inter-alliance disputes through both espionage and combat?
Don't bother feeding the trolls guys
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Goblin Squad Member
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Aunt Tony,
We have 1 to 1.5 years before any of us get to step foot in the game. They are releasing information at a rate of one blog per week, which may seems too slow to you, yet even at this pace, there have already been blogs about other aspects of the game, and at a rate of one per week over the course of more than a year, there will be plenty more to come. Being a nonPvP player, I too am interested in many of the "other" aspects of the game, but I would rather have GW spend most of its time working rather than catering to our supposed needs and impatience. We'll find out more details as they have time to provide them. Until then, we can be patient, we can provide GW with potentially helpful ideas via our posts, and we can even speculate, but declaring what the game will or won't be with any certainty, and believing that you somehow have the right to be told before they have all the details hammered out, strikes me as rather presumptuous.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For us, the players, to have enough license to police our own behaviors and provide latitude for our play, PvP and the combat system had to be included. It would have been putting our roles on very restrictive rails to limit us from the last resort of diplomacy.
Yet PvP entails serious problems for some players, and to ensure we do not destroy our own enjoyment of the game the design requires attention to such details.
One of the most significant considerations in representing the design of PFO is the mythos that PvP has earned in the minds of many roleplayers. Some assurance had to be given that it will not break the atmosphere of play, so significant attention to the matter has been shown.
Thus PvP revelations dominate many expositions of the design. There is no reason to think that the fullness of the game is already described in the blogs or even in all the myriad posts among the threads provided us by Ryan Dancey, Stephen Cheney, and other developers.
A search on their names should provide more information.
What is it about a sandbox you do not understand? They give us the tools: we make the content. The biggest headaches they have are exactly what you are complaining of seeing.
By that measure, WoW and EQ2 are sandboxes...
You have to have the sandbox to play in otherwise you could just use Skype.
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Wow a sandbox? /chuckle. All I can say is Duuuuuuuude.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Aunt Tony,
I haven't played WoW in years, but I don't recall anything about that game allowing players to create meaningful content. I alpha and beta tested WoW, then dropped out a year after it went public because I had become so disillusioned by how little players could influence the world short of temporary PvP gains. There was no player housing, no way of shaping the map by your actions, no persistence to anything you did, and very little if any mechanics to promote role-play. Good grief - you couldn't even talk to your enemy. You played the game as they laid it out for you to play, with the only real choices being made at character generation.
PFO is offering you the chance to create a unique character by choosing the skills, and only the skills, that you think your character should have. With the help of others (which gets back to the emphasis they are placing on player interaction) you can create a persist footprint upon the world, not just for your own entertainment (like instanced housing in far too many other MMOs), but one that others can stumble upon and view as every bit (or more) entertaining than what the NPC towns provide. Instead of the most meaningful events in-game being predetermined by the designers, I have every confidence that the most interesting events will be player creations. We may use some of the bells and whistles provided by GW, but we will mold them to our own use. I know...I and others have done it in past games.
That every detail has not yet been disclosed, created, or even imagined yet should be very small cause for alarm. I always welcome differing views, and a constructive reminder of "don't forget" or "be careful," can be helpful, but being such an adamant seeming naysayer at this early stage is simply going to be viewed by many more optimistic posters as being Eeyore-ish simply for the sake of seeming so.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What is it about a sandbox you do not understand? They give us the tools: we make the content. The biggest headaches they have are exactly what you are complaining of seeing.By that measure, WoW and EQ2 are sandboxes...
You have to have the sandbox to play in otherwise you could just use Skype.
The sandbox is what is being built, and why we are here at all.
It is a truth that the measure is no better than the measurer. How is it that your scruple is found wanting?
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Goblin Squad Member
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So far, everything about PFOnline has been about the combat, and a good bit of that has been about the PvP combat. Essentially, if you're going by what the devs have actually released, it's just going to strive to be EVE Online with swords and robes.
Here's a short summary of the blog topics: Fill your boots!
- Overview - A Journey of a Thousand Miles Begins with a Single Step
- World Map - Introducing the Crusader Road
- Character Progression - Your Pathfinder Online Character
- PvP - To Live and Die in the River Kingdoms
- PvE - Adventure in the River Kingdoms
- Social - LFG! (Looking for Group!)
- Construction - Player-Created Buildings and Structures
- Travel, Time & Distance - Time is the Fire in which We Burn
- Virtual Economy - Money Changes Everything
- Supply Chains - Butchers, Bakers and Candlestick Makers
- Dungeons & Mobs - Where the Wild Things Are
- Reputation & Alignment - Signed... in Blood Contracts
- Thornkeep - Designing Thornkeep
- Politics - Put It in Writing
- Alignment & Reputation - RESPECT: Find Out What It Means to Me!
- Armies - You're in the Army Now!
- Community - I Heard It through the Grapevine
- Release - Begin the Beguine
- Combat - A Three-Headed Hydra
- Combat - Gentlemen, You Can't Fight in Here! This is the War Room!
- NPC Alliances - Live Through This
- Beta - What To Expect From Early Access Beta
- Looting, Threading - Gypsies, Tramps, and Thieves
- Unity Engine - Unity'd States
- Middleware - Stairway to Heaven
- PvP - Blood on the Tracks
- PvP - Screaming for Vengeance
- PvP, Flags, Alignment - I Shot a Man in Reno Just To Watch Him Die
- Progression Systems - Are You Experienced?
- Crafting - If I Had a Hammer
- Combat - Murder by Numbers
We'd all love it if it were to turn out to be more of a Minecraft experience, but the sad fact is that we're mostly just hearing a lot about Golarion-themed battlegrounds.
Can you explain, what you mean, by "more of a Minecraft experience"?
Where's the info about the sandbox? You know -- the world building?
I would love to be proven wrong. I want to know that there will be Portable Holes and Wizards' Private Sanctuaries, that Nondetection can be an invaluable spell and that my imp familiar isn't just a vanity pet
Sorry, I do not know much about pathfinder, perhaps the blog on "Thornkeep" is the sort of "fluff & lore" material that you are interested in seeing: See the list above. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I hope that PFO will include magic items that are useful outside of combat, as well as those that inflict, heal, and mitigate damage. Magic weapons and armor, wands of magic missile, and potions of healing are great, but so are ioun stones, boots of springing and striding, and tankards of endless ale.
When all magic items can be reduced to their combat bonuses, they become a lot less exciting to me. I'd like to see items with bonuses to harvesting/gathering and crafting, bonuses to skills, maybe even just plain fun things like wands of wonder.
Certainly agree, there is a lot of room here. For eg anything related to buildings and construction camps and supply lines; be it magical stuff to deck out your hauling animals, wards to put on buildings to give them minor bonuses... ?
Can you explain, what you mean, by "more of a Minecraft experience"?
Yes: a sandbox style of game allows users to literally create, not just manipulate. So experiences like Second Life would be far better examples of a "sandbox MMO" than PFO is currently. That is, if someone wants their avatar in-game to wear a particular dress, they have to either find/buy it from someone else or create it themselves. This usually allows users to create quite a lot of content, and most of it won't be predictable -- though usually the devs keep an eye out (usually via user flagging) for stuff they deem irredeemably detrimental to the experience for everyone.
So, for example, that list of the blog topics you've posted (I've been reading the GW blog since the project was announced, btw) doesn't cover anything about how content is actually created or manipulated by the users. It describes mechanics which themeparks have -- but nothing about how a user is supposed to create/sculpt a palace for herself, or how users will distribute the objects they create, or whether sculpting of the game's geography will be possible (mining for minerals and materials, for example, or even just digging a moat), or anything, really, that WoW and other themeparks don't already have. Just because you can "craft" a sword doesn't make the game a sandbox no matter how elaborate the crafting system. The generation of inventory in-game is not the same thing as effecting persistent change in the game world.
To use another case as an example, in EQ2 the players' housing is a bounded sort of sandbox inside the instance, but players don't get to decide where in the outside world their house is located. They simply access their house through a portal object which has a static location (and the dimensions and shape of the interior are almost never even close to the representation of that volume from the outside). Once in their house, players can drop and manipulate prefabricated objects to decorate the space, so that's a bit of a hybrid sandbox system. But the game doesn't allow players to create objects from scratch or to manipulate the house itself.
Anyone who's an artist knows the difference between, say, hanging a painting you bought at the thrift store and creating that painting yourself. Or, since this is a 3D game environment, more aptly, modeling and texturing and animating an object which is then imported for use/interaction with/by others in the game.
This touches on all sorts of aspects of play.
A true sandbox would facilitate player organizations by simply not having restrictions on how those organizations form. That is, if players want to form a "guild", the game doesn't describe how that guild exists through a pre-existing template. So if you want a cabal of assassins which is made up of cells of varying numbers and ranks of members who all report to a single mastermind player, that requires a radically different approach to "player guilds" than just sharing a common chat room with a designated "guild leader" and some granular permission controls on the guild's single shared bank. Or for another example, if you want your mercenary troupe to be a private army, owned by a traveling merchant band, which is itself subject to a complex political landscape of many ever-changing city-states and parent corporations, you can't really replicate that with a WoW-style raiding guild.
Or what if you're a lone Wizard who wants to build an ivory tower in the wilderness with no doors or windows, accessing it through a secure Teleportation Circle located in the basement of a locked abandoned house you own in a far away city?
Or what if you're the emperor of one of those city-states and you have the wealth and desire to lift your city into the sky so that it floats around Gulliver's Travels style?
Or you want to commission an artist to sculpt a bust of you to place on display in a hall?
Or you have ambitions to transcend into lichdom, and afterward you design and populate a dungeon to secure your privacy while you research ever more powerful spells or churn out unique artifacts?
Haven't got any suggestion that any of those things will be possible in PFO. So far, the systems we have seen are only the sorts of things that you can do in WoW or SW:tOR or some other themepark. You want a dungeon? Go find the instance entrance -- but no players created it, it was designed by the developers and no one really has any personal interest in whether you're tromping through decimating its population of goblins. You're a guild leader and you want to own a town? Fine, go find one of the designated areas that you are allowed to drop a "town hall" object onto and voila! You don't have to hire artists to design and create your custom palace, you just choose from one of the two or four prefab ones which GW will allow you to buy from their online shop for cash...
Sandbox means a helluva lot more than what this forum apparently thinks it does. And PFO is no sandbox yet.
but nothing about how a user is supposed to create/sculpt a palace for herself, or how users will distribute the objects they create, or whether sculpting of the game's geography will be possible (mining for minerals and materials, for example, or even just digging a moat), or anything, really, that WoW and other themeparks don't already have.
So you can custom create palaces, alter the geography of the game world and dig a moat in WOW??? Woah! That sounds like a game I wanna play, which server can you do this stuff on? He'll I might go back if they have that stuff!
but nothing about how a user is supposed to create/sculpt a palace for herself, or how users will distribute the objects they create, or whether sculpting of the game's geography will be possible (mining for minerals and materials, for example, or even just digging a moat), or anything, really, that WoW and other themeparks don't already have.So you can custom create palaces, alter the geography of the game world and dig a moat in WOW??? Woah! That sounds like a game I wanna play, which server can you do this stuff on? He'll I might go back if they have that stuff!
With even a minimum effort put toward reading comprehension, you'd know that I haven't claimed WoW has any of those features.
The features that WoW and PFO share are those which GW's blog has outlined...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes: a sandbox style of game allows users to literally create, not just manipulate. So experiences like Second Life would be far better examples of a "sandbox MMO" than PFO is currently. That is, if someone wants their avatar in-game to wear a particular dress, they have to either find/buy it from someone else or create it themselves. This usually allows users to create quite a lot of content, and most of it won't be predictable -- though usually the devs keep an eye out (usually via user flagging) for stuff they deem irredeemably detrimental to the experience for everyone.
So, for example, that list of the blog topics you've posted (I've been reading the GW blog since the project was announced, btw) doesn't cover anything about how content is actually created or manipulated by the users.
-snip-
Sandbox means a helluva lot more than what this forum apparently thinks it does. And PFO is no sandbox yet.
I've asked myself this question as well. How sandbox is PFO and what type of sandbox is it? Where could it be more sandbox, equally.
"Sandbox" is notoriously irksome to define, so I'm not going to. However, to note that PFO is much LESS a terraforming sandbox than Minecraft. One reason I think is technical and another is game genre's gameplay, being as discussed, an RPG.
SO PFO is an MMO-RPG-Sandbox which delimits what type of sandbox it will be. Less terraforming due to server persistence and network for eg. Less terraforming so that players can create buildings anywhere and less because in this RPG players are world inhabitants, not gods shaping the world of Golarion with the raw elements of techtonics, solar trajectory, atmospheric composition etc..!
For eg, one key discussion is HEX's and where building site locations are:
The restriction on building types and locations exists for two reasons. First, we want to make building sites a constrained resource, as that makes them worth fighting over, and that conflict helps drive player interaction. Second, we want to ensure that the density of the structures added to the world and the places where they are built makes sense and isn't used as a way to artificially segment the game world or to create terrain advantages—a big problem in many other MMOs that allow player-created buildings.
In some ways it's disappointing it will be limited. But I think compromises on this as above are realistic and rational. This leads to the other restrictions on sandbox: The creativity needs to make sense in the world of this RPG. Eg, notorious "flying p*nis" are not valid!
A good way imo to consider the difference between what Sandbox and Themepark MMORPGs attempt to do differently:
EVE Online is a really great eg for MMORPG Sandbox: CCP Online's three design pillars for sandbox MMOs
So the profusion of interactions that EMERGE from different interacting components. Hence the more systems and the more they integrate the more this leads to the sand that players can shape via their PLAYER INTERACTIONS. With more of this then players can find themselves with more roles and more goals to take on that are not predefined or as heavily scripted as a themepark mmorpg. So the players are the key elements in the space and their interactions lead to CHANGE in these systems they build up for themselves eg Virtual Economy.
Ryan Dancey eg on Settlement Interactions
So, I see what you are saying about about creation being somewhat under-represented, but that is one side to it that is restricted due to the preceding considerations above. I agree, I would like to see more of this as mmorpgs seem to be moving from static world -> sandbox -> more player generated content and created virtual objects/economy. I think the GW devs are well aware of this for eg:
One More Thing...
We have a vision of one more kind of PvE content; for historical reasons, we'll call it a "module." This is a scripted, fully designed adventure suitable for some number of characters of some specified power level. Some of these modules will likely be available to everyone for free. Others may be obtained via the use of in-game microtransaction currency. Modules you unlock would likely be instanced content available to just those characters you wish to adventure with, meaning each group that unlocks a given module will experience it as though it exists exclsuvely for them. (We have had discussions about how, even within instanced module content, there could be common areas that allow multiple groups to interact. Only time will tell how this concept develops and unfolds.)
For such instanced content, offering persistence is tricky. We want you to have the sense that the world changes based on your own successes or failures, and it would break that immersion if you could potentially play the same exact module multiple times. How we untangle that will be a challenge for the development team.
And there's even the chance that you might be able to create your own module content for other players—perhaps even on a for-profit basis. Imagine an "app store" for Pathfinder adventures! It's speculative at this point, but we want you to know that we see the potential, and we are just as interested as you in finding a way to get there.
Skins and so on were also mentioned... but due to the iterative & sustainable development process for PFO: "One step at a time"!! ;)
PS: It's definitely appropriate to end in mentioning: Some of the egs you describe have been discussed by enthusiastic potential players: Eg: inside of housing, wizard towers, some form of unafiliated guild monopolizing a speciality (eg assassins, bandits). And there is possibility with these suggestions, except a) they might not occur at launch due to priority (leaves vs branches vs roots) b) they would exist in stub form ie intially represented by bare text c) if popular/functional/fun they could be developed further in the future. Eg the "modules" are a strong consideration of this already.
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@The Wiseman of the Wilds: The question of "what is a sandbox and how much sand is in PFO" is an interesting and discursive time-waster, with potentially some use in it, so in this case, "feed me till I want no more!" *raises glass*
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Goblin Squad Member
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Then there was the part where Ryan mentioned they want to give us tools to build our own adventuring areas, such as dungeons. Whethr they can remains to be seen, but it was mentioned as a 'would like to' feature.
Check this post which delves deeper into the idea. The original Dancy cite is somewhere around here among the threads.
Possibly Avena's post just above will be of help.
PFO is much LESS a terraforming sandbox than Minecraft. One reason I think is technical and another is game genre's gameplay, being as discussed, an RPG.
Why does allowing players to cast Move Earth or use shovels threaten the game's ability to be an RPG? When it comes to manipulating the geometry of the game's environment, it's not technically difficult at all -- how do you suppose those polygons got there in the first place?
in this RPG players are world inhabitants, not gods shaping the world of Golarion with the raw elements of techtonics, solar trajectory, atmospheric composition etc..!
We're talking about a game world based on the idea that powerful mortal can create entire planes of existence ex nihilo here... It's pretty unsupportable to claim that Golarion's inhabitants are not very well capable of reshaping the face of their world through various means. Many monsters and entities of only moderate CR are easily capable of demolishing or resculpting the landscape with nothing more complicated than a few HD-worth of skeletons. They don't tire. Raise twenty or a thousand of them, give them a task, and they'll pretty much do it. Or constructs. Or summoned earth elementals. That's just parlor tricks within the power range of fairly middle-of-the-scale characters!
But more importantly -- it would be fun. It would be fun for us the players to be able to dig warrens and sewers and dungeons and then populate them with our minions, traps and puzzles to safeguard our treasures... and then go raiding the dungeons of others to take their stuff.
For eg, one key discussion is HEX's and where building site locations are:...
there's even the chance that you might be able to create your own module content for other players—perhaps even on a for-profit basis.
EQ2 has such things already.
More importantly, where are the official dev announcements? Why have these oh-so-important plans not been published on the blog? Should I then expect that every tweet and off-handed forum comment be treated as written in stone promise? Is it realistic to expect us to camp the forum waiting for every blurb from the devs so we can know how the game's development is progressing?
Or is it more reasonable to expect that nothing is official and reliable until it has been published in the channels designated for official communication?
How the devs communicate sets the tone for the game's reputation. I would estimate only a 2% chance that I'll even bother keeping up with PFO to take a look at it on release if GW's idea of professional press release is some forum posts made by one or two employees in their off hours. Professionalism. GW's website already looks pretty amateurish, really and sorry, but it does. They're stretching the limits of faith as it is -- and the community here is doing a good job of cementing in my mind the sorts of experience I can be assured of having once the game goes live.
See:
PLEASE STOP FEEDING THE TROLL
He is just looking for a reaction.
Because apparently asking pointed questions amounts to trolling. Having decades of experience with MMOs (the last ten years of which have been nothing but promises leading to spectacular failures and confidence games) means being skeptical about the production process of one that purports to be released "soon" and has a website that looks like GW's with nothing but some candid blogs and forum posts to back it up.
And uhh... it's pretty offensive that some random posters expect me to take their speculation and vulgar idle gossip to be official news or something of the sort.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My understanding of the term is someone who posts just to be contrary and to stir the pot, and without any care for being productive to the topic being discussed. If that doesn't fit your "original meaning", you are free to enlighten me.
What I meant was that if you dislike the reception, if you think you are being wrongfully labeled, and especially if you apparently don't think much of the game or the way it is being handled, then why do you continue to return, other than to satisfy a need to argue, to convince others that you're right (usually a fruitless endeavor), or to stir the pot? After all, I wouldn't walk into a sewing club and start complaining about sewing, so how did you expect a warmer reception for doing pretty much the same in a forum dedicated to the game we all hope to play?
I don't deny you your opinion, but your method seems a bit counter productive if you're intent was to foster constructive discussion...but then, perhaps that's how it's done in the wider internet that I haven't yet discovered. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Aunt Tony: I fear we may be derailing this thread. If you would like to construct a new topic perhaps on what seems to be your question: "What is the sandbox quality of PFO?" I suggest. Interesting to see where you are coming from.
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Perhaps this topic could be a good blog post for one of the weekly Goblin Works Blogs (magic items)?
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Goblin Squad Member
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To get back on topic, I've always loved magic items that were more utilitarian. Being the type who tries to find that one little spot that allows you to cross over boundary marking mountain ranges in most games, I would love an old-school Elven rope that helps you climb better. Here are a few others:
1. Bag of Holding - in a game with encumbrance, it's more than just extra storage slots.
2. Gem of Seeing - Whether it gives you better range to see what that movement is up ahead, a bird's-eye view to view the movements of enemy troops on the battlefield, or has a bit more kick to it to more easily spot stealthed or even invisible targets, I love these devices.
3. Any of the Figurines of Wondrous Power (though some can be a bit overpowered)
4. Polymorph Items - Not so much to get the special attacks/abilities but for RP use - for people who want to RP being a lycanthrope, for instance.
5. Any magic tool that aids in its intended task - picks that increase your digging rate or your chance to find ore or to find a better grade ore, axes that cut down more wood, carpenter's kits that decrease the construction time, etc.
To get back on topic,
Seven League Boots? +30' movespeed in micro-move mode (combat?), x3 or more move rate between overland Hexes.
An Everflowing Ewer forming the cornerstone of a population center where water is otherwise inaccessible?
A lodestone the size of a large house used to levitate an entire city?
Airships and submarines fabricated from modified seaships? ... Dare we say ... Spelljammers?
Horseshoes that increase the load capacity or moverate of caravan beasts? Would be mightily popular with merchant/trader players. For that matter, gypsy wagons bigger on the inside than out? I mean, if a Bag can do it...
Cursed shoes that seem to be Seven League Boots and force the wearer to dance? Cruel but effective set up for an assassination: "From Me to You with love! <3 ;D" For that matter, all sorts of cursed items to be used with evil intent. Beguiling Gift, anyone?
Tradeskill / crafting tools and laboratories which accelerate or economize the process of creating items? Surely this is one of those no-brainers. The more you invest in a particular location, the more you are motivated to protect it from hostile forces.
A doorknob that recognizes friends and foes and then "tunes" the door to open into appropriate spaces. Could be circumvented as a trap by the wary and skilled, thus preventing casual intruders but admitting the cunning assassin...
Boots to walk on water.
A lantern whose light reveals illusory walls or ethereal horrors.
A rug that conceals a Medium or smaller creature within when rolled up.
Or any of the MANY Wondrous Items already in the game? Like the Hat Of Disguise, the Cube Of Force or Soul Soap? Or Rods of Negation or Absorption. Or Rings of Telekinesis. Or Philters of Love. Or Bottles of Messages. Or Stone Familiars. Or the Orb of Storms?
I still think non-combat magic items are really just a matter of how much of a sandbox the game may end up being. Because if the sandbox aspect is limited, then non-combat items or any other features will be essentially nothing more than useless cosmetics.
@Aunt Tony: I fear we may be derailing this thread. If you would like to construct a new topic perhaps on what seems to be your question: "What is the sandbox quality of PFO?" I suggest. Interesting to see where you are coming from.
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Perhaps this topic could be a good blog post for one of the weekly Goblin Works Blogs (magic items)?
I was under the impression that GW intended the game to go live sometime this year or early next -- is that timeline just all wrong now? And if it's not incorrect... shouldn't there be a far larger to-do about this project? Not just in blog posts with an age between them, but where's the full-featured website for the game? Are you saying that no one's ever talked about the questions I have anywhere? Because I can't find such posts myself.
You either have an idea, an ideal game that you envision is perfect, or you only know what isn't characteristic of your ideal, perfect game.
No real expression of a game design is going to match your ideal. You couldn't do it yourself if you tried. An ideal is never perfectly manifest any more than utopia will ever be realized.
You should know that, yet you continue with your raw bloody tripe.
The noun 'Troll' has evolved over the years, as words are wont to do. It no longer means what it did in Usenet. Deal with it, and understand that you are viewed as a troll, and it is because of the negativity you have brought in on your soiled slippers.
Yeah, I'm ever so impressed by the straining attempts at a "high tongue".
My slippers were soilt treading in thy youthful wake. Thy nanny needs new nappies.
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Bag of holding is a must.
Imoveable rods could be cool too and help a lot on climbing and to avoid falling sometimes.
I like the idea of magic horseshoes and also boots, to improve mounts and chars bas movement speed.
The idea of creating cursed objects is also very interesting IMO. It would create a market for people who has the skill or magical ability to identify item magic properties. But it could be worked later in the game development as it isn't prioritary.
Maybe some ring or amulet to improve disguise skill or even temporarily change chars appearence to other races or gender would be great.
Itens for bard non-combat performance would add a nice flavour too.
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@Aunt Toney. You need to watch the videos about the game, two talk about their development timeline.
I'm sure that once they get the core systems running they will be able to start working on items. When combat isn't finalized there's really no point in worrying about 7 league boots.
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@Aunt Tony - Constructive ideas on tools btw. However it's probably "disruptive" to continue derailing (me also!).
Focusing on the sandbox doesn't just save time and money, though—we think it's an ideal way to explore the Pathfinder world. In a sense, Paizo's own Pathfinder lines actually combine sandbox elements (by way of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting line) with theme park elements (via the Pathfinder Adventure Path and Pathfinder Module lines). Though the sandbox will be our initial focus, the Pathfinder brand is known for great stories and adventures, and over time, we'll add lots of opportunities for theme-park style adventure into the fabric of the world to give depth and richness to the Pathfinder Online experience.
Exploration, Development, Adventure and Domination
On the front page of goblinworks.com, we said "Pathfinder Online is a hybrid sandbox/theme park-style MMO where characters explore, develop, find adventure and dominate a wilderness frontier in a land of sword and sorcery." Those four actions—Exploration, Development, Adventure, and Domination—are the key elements of our game design, and we'll be referencing them a lot in future blogs. We expect characters to develop a focus on at least one of those elements, and the Crusader Road area gives us great hooks to build challenging content for all four of these foci.
Also, Pathfinder Online is going to focus primarily on the kinds of classic adventure content that the tabletop game features at moderate levels—exploring dangerous areas and confronting monsters and villains that are scary and dangerous, but not challenging cosmic horrors or universe-destroyers.
The other end of the MMO spectrum is the "sandbox" game. In sandboxes, you're given a lot of tools and opportunities to create persistency in the world, then turned loose to explore, develop, find adventure, and dominate the world as you wish. You and the other players generate the primary content of the game by struggling with each other for resources, honor and territory. There is no "end game" and no level cap.
Pathfinder Online is a sandbox game with theme park elements. You'll be able to create your own place in the world of Golarion, complete with complex social and economic systems. You'll form ad-hoc or permanent groups ranging in size from small parties to large settlements and even huge nations, and interact with others in your world in a realistic, unscripted fashion. You'll also be able to participate in scripted adventures, though, with the outcome of those adventures helping to determine the shape of your world.
@Aunt Toney. You need to watch the videos about the game, two talk about their development timeline.
I'm sure that once they get the core systems running they will be able to start working on items. When combat isn't finalized there's really no point in worrying about 7 league boots.
I think I must have missed the call to get the thread back on topic.
The topic being
items with bonuses to harvesting/gathering and crafting, bonuses to skills, maybe even just plain fun things like wands of wonder.
