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I would like to request some help with this. This will be my first oracle and I would like to make sure I'm not walking into any traps. This is for a Very undead heavy, high level (starting 21st) campaign with a brutal GM who has a nearly encyclopedic knowledge of pathfinder. Any survival/spell/feat advise is appreciated.
Dual Cursed (Deaf/Haunted, deaf advancing) Aasimar Oracle (Life) 18, Paladin 2, Holy Vindicator 1
Traits: Magical Knack, ??
Stats: 14, 16, 16, 14, 14, 20 (Rolled, lucky me)
With equipment and lvls my cha will be near 40 and my dex/con at 22
Favored class into Channel Revelation for 15d6 base, 17d6 w/phylactary
Is dual cursed worth it at this level?
Feats:
1. Fey Foundling
3. Selective Channel
5. Alignment channel
7. Reach spell (?)
9. Quick Channel
11. Toughness
13. Point blank shot
15. Precise shot (will soft cover be an issue?)
17. Quicken spell
19??
21??
With paladin bonus my saves are 38/35/47 and my 17 channel dice to AC with the Vindicator's shield active means AC is in the mid 60's. My worry is it only lasts until I'm hit.
Spells: [x]= from class features
1-[ Ill omen, CLW] prot. Evil, divine favor, command, bless, hide from undead
2- [oracle's burden, cure moderate] sound burst, consecrate, shatter, shield other, ?
3- [bestow curse, cure serious] Dispell magic, Shield of Faith, ???
4- [Restoration, Cure critical] holy smite, air walk, Death ward, oracle's vessel
5- [breath of life] mass cure light, wall of stone, fickle winds, true seeing, undeath ward
6- [heal] Animate Objects, Dispell (greater), Geas/Quest
7- [restoration(greater)] Repulsion, Destruction, Holy Word
8- [mass heal] Discern Location, Summon Monster VIII
9- [true res. ] Miracle
Any advise here would be wonderful as I just picked what looked good out of the PFSRD. I have very little real idea of what I'm doing
Will my save DCs be high enough to make use of spells like Command?
okay - I noticed the silence.
not sure exactly what to expect for foes once you hit the level 20+ category.
if not for the paladin levels I would advocate a Neutral Alignment and Channel Smite and Versatile Channeler.
Elemental Channel might be handy, really depends on what foes you are expecting.
your CHA is strong enough, for the second level spell slot consider Pilfering Hand - with Reach Spell you can do a ranged disarm attempt (and put the object into your own hand).
if you are going Dual Cursed, seriously look at both the re-roll revelations you get from that.
if using 3rd party stuff, Kobold Press has this:
Strange Revelation
You can learn a revelation from a mystery other than your own.
Prerequisites: Mystery class feature, Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks
Benefit: The next time you select a revelation or take the Extra Revelation feat (including if chosen at the same level you take Strange Revelation), you may select a revelation from another mystery instead of your own.
Use it to get the Sidestep Secret of Lore and do CHA to AC instead of DEX.
Personally, I would stay away from Dual Cursed and Deaf. The extra spells from Haunted are all kinds of golden Utility.
Consider finding a spot in the spell list for Searing Light. as is your ranged options are a little light.
What is your plan with the Point blank shot and Precise Shot?
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They were there for soft cover penalties. I'll be getting more than the normal number of ranged touch attacks through reach spell so I thought it would be useful. If you have a better idea please let me know.
I'll look at searing light. Any spell advice is more than welcome.
And I will very much look at that Strange Revelation feat. And ask my DM because that sounds golden.
The campaign environment will be Gallowspire. LOTS of undead and my DM specifically mentioned outsiders. I had to take one for Holy Vindicator so I thought I'd go that way.
And thanks for the reply. Im a total caster noob and my DM is throwing me into artificially high levels (though this won't start for a few months), so I'm drowning a little. Perhaps prematurely, but still.
I always prefer spontaneous casters. I like that I am not totally screwed by my spell selection in the morning, or the mysterious disappearance of a spellbook. And really, I think that Spontaneous casters get the best use out of the metamagic feats.
surprising to see anyone still rolling stats. there is monstrous thread about it somewhere on here. while it gives the "classic" feel, point buys keep the guy that has one shining moment of luck from becoming the star of the whole campaign. And really, the guy with the super low constitution might dream of being an adventurer, but he also dreams of making it through another winter without a debilitating cold.
Just got done making an Aasimar Paladin for a convention game. Not sure how good it would be at this inflated level, but the Heavenly Radiance feat is a fun way to add some more spells per day.
also - Angelic Blood and Angelic Flesh might be nice.
and the Channel Force Feat chain might be just what you are looking for, as long as foes are adverse to being pushed or pulled 40'
the specialty Aasimar Oracle is not so good. (and cannot be a Life Oracle)
the Eldritch Heritage feat chain could handily grant you some sorcerous powers.
Celestial is a natural, but some of the bonuses are redundant / weak. Elemental has cool movement options. Draconic would give you a breath weapon. Protean's Spatial tear ability is GLORIOUS. as is the Starsoul's Breaching the Gulf. Raksasha is great, if a little hard on "story". Not sure if you can get into the Empyreal variant of Celestial, but it "might" give you a whole nother batch of channel positive energies (as a level 17 cleric).
Spell wise, I would look to see if you can have some form of 'offensive' effecting spell to target each type of save, in case you need to call an audible. Offensive for 'clerics' is subjective though.
spells:
*miracle is a must, if only for the versatility of copying spells you do not know.
*With your paladin background, look at the Divine Vessel spell, beefy.
at 6 - I think it sounds like Banishment might be more handy than Animate object.
5 - break Enchantment will make you popular, Pillar of life would be fitting, Righteous Might is always a winner for the melee type
4 - freedom of movement
2 - Spear of Purity
just ideas, your mileage may vary
when I look at publish CR 20 stuff, the regular rules seem to go out the door.
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I tried to quote that and I think the forum code had an aneurism.
Anyway.
I really prefer spontaneous as well. I hate having to look stuff constantly. Not saying I really would as a prepared caster, but the chances go up.
The rolling thing is a holdover for my more experienced compatriots. I don't mind. If its too terrible they get group permission for a re-roll.
Why can the specialty Aasimar not be a life oracle? I'm not sure what you mean there.
Thanks for reminding me about the racial feas. I may replace the archery ones (at least) with a few of those.
I'm not seeing an Empyreal bloodline that channels. Is it on the Pfsrd?
Do you think it would be wise to drop some of the Non-core classes for more spell casting or are the extreme defences worth the hit, in your opinion?
the defenses are worth the hit. I need to look for a FAQ, because I did not see a limit (besides taking the action) on the frequency of using Vindicator's Shield.
in the Aasimar section of the Advanced Race guide there is a specialty Oracle. Life is not one of the mysteries it supports. And it is not good for what you are doing anyway.
Empyreal is a wild blooded celestial bloodline (Ultimate Magic). I know there is some debate on if Eldritch Heritage can select wild blooded sorcerer types.
the only other worries, mechanically, that I see is that you need a shield, you can solidly wield a weapon, and you need a free hand for casting. might be that a Reliquary Buckler is the right tool.
at 21st level, are you guys doing crazy shopping at Wealth by level? If so, check to see if craft feats will give you a discount. while it is stupid good for regular clerics (just pray for the needed spells), it can be put to the right use for you.
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I actually planned on having an animated shield to relieve that. Possibly two. Then I take Quarterstaff Master to wield both as a last resort? Then I wield a magic staff and heavy shield? Though only one at a time. Still an awesome picture.
My DM has yet to decide on crafting yet, sadly.
Do oracles need symbols to channel? If so it'll definitely be my requilary shield.
Dual cursed is almsot always worht choosing for ofrtune and misfortune. There is a wolf face curse that I would take instead of hauinted. The disadvantage makes you look like a werewolf and you have a 20% spell failure without silent spell(which you have with deaf). You get a bite attack. Since you already have deaf thats what I would pick.
Misfortune can be used on allies if they mis-saves. Requires baddies two saves to avoid your spells. Have baddies re-roll a nat 20.
Before the results are revealed, but after the dice roll. So before the results of whatever effects take place.
Staves are no good. Okay, staves can be good, but you need the shield for the silly AC.
Undead have a nasty habit of aiming for your touch AC. Luckily (just checked) the Sacred bonus to AC from Holy Vindicator will still count. as far as equipment goes, consider Ghost Touch on the Armor and shield as well.
as far as spells, Blade Barrier (6) may be your cup of tea. or, if money is burning a hole in your purse, you could Use Magical Device on a wand of Wall of Fire (although only 2d6 +7 damage). Blade Barrier at 15d6 is superior (and is untyped damage, getting around any fire resistances)
Remember that you can craft your own Staff.
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For a feat I can craft one, but with the channel force feats I'm suddenly running very short on those.
If I get Quarterstaff master I could wield the shield in one hand and the staff in the other, or animate the shield, or just get a glove of storing and snap my fingers when it's needed. I'm not really worried about the free hand thing. I'm going to be honest when I say the staff of the hierophant looked very nice with it's +2 luck to AC and saves.
I think I like the blade barrier idea. Maybe I can adjust my Metamagic fears to focus on that spell as my main offence option and use my channels to force enemies through the barrier repeatedly as I can either push or pull with the Force Channel feats.
Does that sound viable?
Why Ghost touch on armor and shields? Are a lot of undead incorporeal?
Quarterstaff Master only works with Quarterstaves... It might be better just to wield a Club.
incorporeal undead ignore armor, shield, and Natural Armor bonuses with strikes. Just looking out for you. and it would fit with the Oracle of Life.
Intensify spell on a blade Barrier would take it up to 20d6 for only a +1 level adjustment. golden since you expect a whole lot of undead.
your GM may be pulling powerful undead out of the nether regions, because the "stock" undead do not go very high. Devourer at CR 11.
Vampiric or Ghost could be tacked onto something as a +2 CR, so that might mean vampire dragons. Or other custom nastiness.
You can get some Potent Skeleton & Zombie Hordes from unexpected Places.
It depends on your GM.
ghost touch works against touch attacks in general doesn't it?
There's a celestial shield that acts as a light shield and gets bonuses from wearing celestial armor. It may suit your concept and it will allow you to move your staff into your off hand when you need to cast.
The shield is in the aasimar section of the ARG
Ghost Touch only affects Incorporeal Attacks.
Ghost Touch only affects Incorporeal Attacks.
thanks, I wasn't aware of that.
Can we get a link to those because I can't find them...
I think they would be awesome... If you fight Undead commonly...
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I was mistaken. Ancient lore keeper conflicts with dual cursed, not favored class. I can actually have both as the elven favored class bonus is the same as the Aasimar.
I'm still not sure it's worth it. Ancient lore keeper replaces all my bonus spells which is a big part of the Life oracle. I get Mass heal as an 8th lvl spell and all my other big healers for free. Ancient lore keeper would force me to use a known spell on those.
Also, elf gets no cha bonus, which I thought was very important for an oracle as it influences spells/day and DC?
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Here is an iterated build:
Dual Cursed (Deaf/Worlscarred, deaf advancing) Aasimar Oracle (Life) 18, Paladin 2 (asking for Yamabushi archetype), Holy Vindicator 1
Traits: Magical Knack, Sacred Conduit
Stats: 14, 16, 16, 14, 14, 20 (Rolled, lucky me)
With equipment and lvls my cha will be near or at 40 (+15) and my dex/con at 22
Darkvision 60
Yamabushi gives Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff) and +cha vs undead on both attack and damage.
Favored class into Channel Revelation for 15d6 base, 17d6 w/phylactary
Dual Cursed gives me free Silent Spell, scent, Tremorsense 30 ft., nearly meaningless bite attack
I also get the Misfortune and one more Life revelation from it.
CL is 21 because of Trait and an Ioun Stone.
Feats:
1. Two Weapon Fighting
2. Weapon focus (Quarterstaff)
3. Selective Channel
5. Alignment channel
7. Reach spell
9. Quarterstaff Master
11. Channel Force
13. Imp. Channel Force
15. Quick Draw
17. Heighten Spell
19. Imp. channel
21. Dazing Spell?
With paladin bonus and gear my saves are 38/35/47 and my 17 channel dice to AC with the Vindicator's shield active means AC is in the mid 60's until I'm hit. I have at least 15 channels/day.
Spells: [x]= from class features
1-[ Ill omen, CLW] prot. Evil, divine favor, command, bless, hide from undead
2- [oracle's burden, cure moderate] sound burst, consecrate, Pilfering Hand, shield other, Spear of Purity
3- [bestow curse, cure serious] Dispell magic, Shield of Faith, Archon's Arua, Searing Light
4- [Restoration, Cure critical] holy smite, air walk, Death ward, Freedom of Movement
5- [breath of life] mass cure light, wall of stone, fickle winds, true seeing, undeath ward
6- [heal] Blade Barrier, Dispell (greater), Geas/Quest
7- [restoration(greater)] Repulsion, Destruction, Holy Word
8- [mass heal] Euphoric Tranquility, Summon Monster VIII
9- [true res. ] Miracle
Thoughts are appreciated.
My thoughts.. Unless ur dm is grossly bumping up attack bonuses of monsters cr 20+ than u will only ever be hit with a 20 roll, although i do like the animated shield.. I wouldnt worry about ranged feats as youll probably be fighting enough numbers to single out good target and the majority of your damage should be coming from aoe spells or channels anyways.. I would select the following feats instead:
1st-Fey Foundling(such a stupid amt of extra healing to urself)
3rd-Skill Focus: Knowledge Religion or Planes(for eldritch heritage)
5th-Eldritch Heritage-Arcane Bloodline(Arcane Bond-Bonded Object)
7th-Selective Channel
9th-Alignment Channel
11th-Improved Eldritch Heritage(Metamagic Adept)
13th-Divine Interference(really good feat that will save lives)
15th-Quicken Spell(action economy cannot be beatin)
17th-Greater Eldritch Heritage(New Arcana)
19th-Intensify Spell(who doesnt like rolling 20dice)
21st-Quicken Channel
The Eldritch Heritage does some nice things for this character. First u can use metamagics and still move, second u get a free spell per day(insert miracle here), and lastly u get ur choice of a 4th, 6th, and 8th level spell from the wizard/sorc spell list... Divine Interference is awesome in a can and combos great with the fortune and misfortune revs(which is the reason to go dual-curse), to make you the reroll master. Not sure about the wolf curse.. the bonus spells from haunted or blackened seems much better than a bite attack(you should avoid melee with this guy).. Reach spell is easily replaced with spectral hand.. Channel force feats are a trap imo.. Much better to just go 17dice quick nukes follwed with 20 dice blade barriers imo..
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My thoughts.. Unless ur dm is grossly bumping up attack bonuses of monsters cr 20+ than u will only ever be hit with a 20 roll, although i do like the animated shield.. I wouldnt worry about ranged feats as youll probably be fighting enough numbers to single out good target and the majority of your damage should be coming from aoe spells or channels anyways..
While I agree that no unbuffed bestiary monster will hit me, this campaign is starting at lvl 21 so I don't want to make assumptions about how much my DM's going to buff the beasties.
I did ditch the ranged feats. I was trying to take advantage of the melee boosts Yamabushi gets with Staff Master, but I'm not tied to that. I'll still want quick draw to access various staves and rods quickly though.On the topic of staves and rods: I had thought to leave Quicken to a rod and access desirable arcane spells through staves. Is this a good idea?
I'll look into that feat chain. I've never seen many of the ones you mention.
Thanks for the feedback!
Quicken Rods are great, but will be quite expensive to own multiples.. With that said I would always take quicken spell with any full caster.. Staves are good, but without the ability to cast the spells in them i dont think they can be recharged, so no arcane staffs.. Now 1 that isnt is the Staff of the Magi, because it refills itself(not easy to get i wouldnt imajine though).. If u have an abundance of rods and staffs than quick draw is nice i suppose, ive personally never had such so gloves of storing were always my go too for that.. Honestly if u want a badass staff guy go with a staff magus and forget the oracle.. i personally would never wanna be in melee with this guy.. I mean even with a +16 bab ur attacks wont be that great and vs buffed baddies u could find only ur first attack hitting, which isnt worth it.. I would suggest playing the blaster type either with wands, staffs, spells, or channels and leave the melee to full bab guys..
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I guess you're right. Even with cha to hit it'll be an iffy proposition. That'll free up two feat slots.
As for the quicken rod being expensive, I agree, but I honestly don't know how many quickened I'll need in a day. You think more than 3?
Just curious, why do you think the channel force feats are a trap? Granted, they have to fail a save, but the ability to move enemies about into spells like blade barrier or to force them to provoke from your meat shield seems awesome. Not to mention the ability to shape your channel into a line or cone.
I dont like the channel force feats because of miltiple things.. For one they have to fail the save, which i wouldnt count on in a ubber-strong undead dungeon where everything is likely to have channel resistance.. Second its a little ambigeous on if you have to succeed on CMB check vs Monsters CMD to get the Push/Pull Manuever to work after the failed save, if so u have no chance at this.. Lastly even if the failed save allows u not to have to roll cmb and it just automatically succeeds u still can only push or pull creatures your size or smaller, which probably isnt gonna be alot of things.. In the end 2 feats for alot of maybes just doesnt add up to me.. Thats what i ment by its a trap... About the question of quicken, at your level i would almost always wanna cast 2 spells while in combat.. Now u have to option of quickening channels and cast a spell so that free's up some of the need, but 3/day wouldnt be enough for me.. I suppose if i had a Lesser, Regular, and Greater Quickening rod i would consider forgoing the feat, but not otherwise.. Abit on your spells..
Unless everyone is sporting a ring of protection +5, i would take shield of faith.. swap it for command(doesnt work on undead).. Liberating Command and Sanctuary are both great spells as well.. I would swap them both in for divine favor and bless
At 2nd level, lesser resto will be a must.. swap it for sound burst imo
At 3rd.. Nap Stack is really good despite only usable 1/week.. Shield of Faith is a 1st level spell, so swap it in for it.. Also Archons Aura is decent till u get hit.. i would take pro energy over it..
At 4th.. Air Walk is ok, but i would take Blessing of Fervor instead..
At 6th.. Geas will not work on most undead.. I would do Hero's Feast, or Undeath to Death over it..
At 7th.. Holy Word might be useless with the powerful undead/outsiders you'll be facing.. I would consider Jolting Portent, or even Ressurection over it..
At 8th.. Euphoric Traq wont effect most undead.. I would go Greater Planar Ally, Stormbolts, or greater spell immunity or it..
Race wise, theres an alternate racial trait called deathless that you should be taking...
Gear wise a Staff of Life or 2 would be useful.. 900 wands of death ward too lol
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Would the Thanatopic and Threnodic metamagics mentioned above increase the value of some of those spells? Possibly as rods?
I see your point on the force channel feats. Honestly, I forgot about channel resistance. All the important enemies will have it. Thanks for pointing that out.
As a note, I'm fairly certain everyone will have a ring of protection. +5.
I forgot to mention, but I did take the deathless trait.
Well it would make them usable, so yea but i still wouldnt take command as its save will be made..
Geas would be useful if it didnt have a 10 casting time, so it should be out as well..
I could see Euphoric Tranq being useful to completely CC a badguy for a combat and i especially like the Helpful part for info gathering.. Now is 1 spell worth buying a greater metamagic rod for it.. Thats up to u.. if u decide to keep the spell u should consider switching sum mon 8 for greater planar ally.. Its casting time is long, but it could be done easily out of combat and the options a creatures are way better.. For example you could get a Planetar's help for 21mins for a measly 1800gps or 21hrs for 9k gold.. Either will be doable with party level and treasure found.. It even states that deeds strongly aligned with its ethos may be 1/2 price or even free.. Slaying mega undead seems like an angels ethos to me...
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The reason for the summon monster was for an Elder Positive Energy Elemental which would give me maximized heals in its aura. However, if my DM says no to 3pp monsters then I'll switch it out.
And thanks for the spell recommendations. I may have forgotten to mention, but this is my first PC caster and any spell advice/reasoning is greatly appreciated. I'll put it to use in both my upcoming campaign and this character. :)
I would pick up spectral hand with my 4th level wizard slot. This solves ranged touch problems for both healing and offense.. I would go with elemental body 3 over monster phy.. You become large size, but also gain some nice stat bumps and immunities.. After reading about polymorphs you cannot be under the effects of multiple polymorphs, so no switch to an elemental or w/e and then converting to energy form.. With that said it might be better to pick a different 6th or lower spell.. What had u considered for your 8th level arcane?
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I had thought about 4: Dimention Door, 6: Cintingency 8: Prismatic wall. But if spectral hand can be used for touches I may grab that because most heals are touches
Energy Body doesn't say it's a polymorph, but it probably is. I gain the elemental immunities from that, though none of the stat bonuses. Is large size beneficial with spectral hand? I would have thought smaller would be better. (Though there is a dex cap on the armor)
Im pretty sure energy body is a form of polymorph.. You can purcahse a wand of DD and use UMD :).. Spectral Hand indeed can deliver touches, but there melee touchs, so str based.. But i wouldnt worry abt that ur BAB is fine and +20somthing touch attacks are fine.. The hand can be harmed but its considered incorp so.. Additionally only 4th level and lower spells can be delivered threw it...