So I'm joining my first Pathfinder game (plenty of 3.5 experience) And I am playing a paladin. Things are limited to PF and we should be playing until at least lvl 15.
I have the basics of the build down, but i need some help narrowing down my feats to which will be the best. I know my build isn't "perfect" and that is on purpose. Going for a bit of style.
stats are:
STR 18
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 13 (i know, I'll explain)
WIS 7
CHA 14
So the 13 int is for flavor/build, I'm not changing it. I need that to take Unsanctioned knowledge achieve to get dimensional anchor and other goodies. I liked the ability from Oath against Fiends but I don't want to be forced into the strict code so this is my way around it.(The skill points, using favored class for hp and knowing infernal doesn't hurt) I am using an Oath of Vengeance.
I am not trying to overly optimize, but I still want it all to work well together, and a lot of the feats I just have no experience seeing them in action or even anything similar.
So, being human, lvl 1-20 build (must be functional throughout since we may not go much past 15), that gives me 11 feats total. The problem is I've found 14 that i think are really good, so I need help with what to cut, and when to take which.
The feats i like:
Power Attack
Furious Focus
Weapon Focus (Falchion)
Lunge
Extra Lay On Hands
Step Up
Following Step
Step Up and Strike
Improved Critical (Falchion)
Critical Focus
Staggering Critical
Stunning Critical
Quicken spell like ability (to make the divine bond swift, not sure if DM will allow it yet)
Unsanctioned knowledge (this must be included, preferably lvl 11 or 13)
So 3 need to be dropped, and 2 more will be 17 and 19 which may not even be reached, but I would love to hear some opinions. Also let me know if there are any great feats I missed, though I don't know ow they will fit.
So far I'm thinking:
(1)Power Attack
(h)Furious Focus
(3)
(5)
(7)Lunge
(9)imp crit
(11)crit focus
(13)Unsanctioned knowledge
But I'm not sure. I don't know which crit feat would be better first. (I took the anatomist trait if that matters) Any help would be greatly appreciated.
An extra question, when you have weapon bond, what enchantments do you all tend to buy for your falchion? And do you use a cold iron or adamantine? Do you keep a spare? Just trying to get an idea of a recommended weapon load-out.
Thanks in advance, sorry for the long post.
unsanctioned knowledge is a staple imo, so 13 int is staple for good paladins
heres the thing about the 2HF build, it doesnt require a lot of feats
i made a build in the quintessential thread about this, and im prett confident i have a good feel for what you want here
personally i like bailing on the regular human in favor of the cosmopolitan for this build, because the 2nd feat at 1st level is really just not going to amount to that much since you dont have anything you need to get done that early because all you need is power attack (the only real thing you may 'need' is toughness since its really really good at lvl 1 if you actually play through level 1)
cosmopolitans get +2 to 2 different stats, but give up the feat and skill points
go with STR and CHA
i like putting 15's into both of them so that they both end up at 18's by level 8
so the point buy looks like this:
15 STR
12 DEX
14 CON
13 INT
7 WIS
15 CHA
so CHA and STR both start out as 17's for you
at lvl 4 bump STR, and lvl 8 bump CHA
are you allowed traits? if so pick something that gives you intimidate s a class skill (preferably extremely fashionable as it also gives you a boost to intimidate and diplomacy) and intimidate is a skill you should care about as a highly charismatic character
feat arrangement should look something like:
1) Power Attack
3) Extra Lay on Hands
5) Unsanctioned Knowledge
7) Furious Focus
9) Critical Focus
11) Strike Back
this is all assuming you are going with the core paladin, and not an oathbound one (in which case oath agasint the wyrm is better for 2HF, and oath of vengence is a close 2nd)
you always go with the weapon bond, and always pick keen, which means you dont have to take improved critical ever, because you get it for free, and if you already have a +1 sword you can have it for free at level 5
holy is probly the second most important enchantment to go with
now, we skipped out on weapon focus because this build can switch between different weapons for different enemies, so you can use, say, an earth breaker (like a greatsword but bludgeoning) if you end up fighting undead-types and can give your self the disruption ability instead of keen, or just end up using different weapons than the falchion (best has been proven to be the falcata, which you can get proficiency with by taking the heirloom weapon trait so you dont need to burn a feat)
Furious Focus isnt so important to you at earlier levels because that +1 doesnt really make too much of a difference, but taking it later and getting a +3 from it will, especially when that feat could be used for more HP earlier on, i like toughness better, but extra lay on hands is better math-wise, especially if you're waiting til lvl 3 to take it anyway
Strike Back is a free melee attack whenever someone attacks you, its basically a staple if you care about close combat and you arent my flying oathbound charger paladin type (taking oath against the wyrm gets you Fly as the spell)
later in levels you can focus on critical feats and whatnot
other feats i like are Antagonize (if you like role playing and maxing out both diplomacy and intimidate like i do, making you the party face, and you're also the tank since you are playing the 2HF paladin, so drawing all the attention to yourself is really good and flavorful) which i would recommend in place of furious focus and just take furious focus later where it gets you +4 or +5 to attack when you rake it
if you go oathbound and get fly, the feat death from above is more important at lvl 11 than strike back, since you will be very mobile and be charging around at things from the air
as for buying a particular metal for your weapons, it doesnt really matter for you, since the pally's smite in PF got upgraded to automatically overcome DR of any kind except epic
as for enhancements, flat number bonuses are good because your bonded weapon gets you the best abilities, impact weapon is expensive but ok
idk what spells you plan on grabbing with Unsanctioned Knowledge, but i like:
1) Shield of Faith or Wrath
2) Bear's Endurance (if you're not oathbound) or Blur (the best choice imo)
3) Haste
4) Divine Power
if you absolutely have to stick with regular human, consider taking toughness or fast learner as your bonus feat at lvl 1
and no matter what, diplomacy is your most important skill, dont dip out on it, you care less about perception than anyone on the forums will admit to because you have detect evil and you dumped WIS so the modifier for it will not be that good anyway
i think you'll find as i did that core paladins are a lot better in PF than the core ones were in 3.5, i hope this helps, its my favorite class and my favorite style of playing it
You may want to look at Fey Foundling feat. It gives you an extra 2 points of healing per die on magical healing. This works very well with lay on hands as a swift action.
Furious focus is not really that good as it only effects the first attack. Below 4th level that is only +1 and even at higher levels you are probably not going to miss with the first attack. Weapon focus would give you more bang for the buck because it affects all attacks including attacks of opportunity.
The step up chain requires a 13 DEX so unless you are going to put your level bonus or get a belt to increase your dexterity you do not qualify. A belt of STR would get you more and a double state belt is very expensive. Also you are going to be wearing heavy armor so will not have much movement.
Lunge only last till the end of your turn so is useless for attack of opportunities.
Greater Mercy gives you an extra 1d6 on your lay on hands if none of your mercies apply. Also when choosing your mercies go for the ones that remove conditions you may be affected by. Avoid things like disease, frightened, and go for things like fatigued, sickened.
If traits are allowed pick up bully max out intimidate and go for Cornugon Smash. That is going to be a free intimidate check on anyone you hit while using power attack.
The improved sunder line is also a good option. Sundering strike is really good with a falchion and improved critical. Combine this with Cornugon Smash and you can disarm and demoralize your opponent. To make this even worse cast bless weapon for an automatic critical on a threat when fighting evil. Sunder can also be used on a caster spell component pouch to totally shut them down.
just realized its a 25 point buy, in which case get yourself a 16 in STR (so it starts at 18) and a 15 in CON, and at lvl 4 bump CON instead of STR so you get more HPs cuz that s!&# matters for you a lot
im actually jealous that you get to play this because the only PF games ive gotten to play i ended up making a shield master for, who is far less fun and has no spare feats for characterizing
Thanks for the Ideas.
It is actually 20 point buy. I had already included the +2 to STR.
The group I'm playing with is fairly new, so I'm not trying to optimize too much and overshadow anyone. I dont think the extra +2 human variant would fly so I'm sticking with the normal one.
Flavor-wise, If I go Oathbound it will be Vengeance or Fiends. I am actually not trying to be a diplomat or the face of the group, we have a bard for that. My pally has been wronged by evil, and all he cares about is putting an end to it.
The traits i'm taking are anatomist and magical knack, +1 to confirm crits and +2 CL.
I know the weapon bond is useful, but you only get it for a few fights a day at higher levels. At lower levels, I'm sure I should go a bit further than a +1. And the same goes for DR. Smite evil is amazing, but I doubt I'll have a smite for every DR monster I fight. I'll probably just watch the campaign and see if mithril(silver) or cold iron would be better. And I'm thinking +1 keen and holy.
For feats, thank you for pointing out step up not working with 12 dex, that drops 3 right there.
Thanks for the insight on furious focus and lunge, hadn't considered those. Fey foundling sounds awesome but I don't think its source is allowed. And while I like improved sunder, i don't want to sunder our loot. And I will definitely have to consider strike back.
Thanks both of you. You have given me a lot to think about.
just how many fights/day do you actually plan on going into? most of the time it works out based on CR, because the weapon bond doesnt work any longer than the mount bond, and if you go with the mount you either gotta take the feats to do mounted combat, or weasel your way into getting your GM to let you have basically an animal companion who can flank and whatnot... and if a versatile human is too far to stretch, i doubt the flanking partner will
oath of vengeance is good, gets all of the smites and gives you better options for your Unsanctioned Knowledge spells, since you already have wrath and dont need haste because you get blessing of fervor instead, so i would recommend getting displacement for your 3rd lvl spell and i dont even know for 1st and 2nd levels, because getting more smites means you dont need shield of faith (cuz smiting gives you a deflection bonus) and if you get Displacement, Blur seems like a waste, i'd nab bear's endurance tbh, since it works as a heal and can act as a prereq for crafting belts
make sure you do your research and really know what you want so you dont have to ask the DM for favors in rebuilding your character
is crafting banned? with a high(ish) INT and skill ranks to spare, i may recommend taking crafting feats since you can freely max out spellcraft since you dont care about party-facing skills
craft wondrous item is available at lvl 5 (unless you take unsanctioned knowledge then, which you always should) so take it at lvl 7, and make yourself an orange prism ioun stone that gives you +1 caster level (so you have full caster level) for half price down the road, it saves you 15,000 gp
idk what your party role is, so idk what to tell you about skills
I would suggest the Oath of Vengeance simply because its the best.. The Keen enchantment is only a +1 bump, so i would do that over imp. crit, the step up feats seem decent, but if your going Oath of Vengeance i would shy away and maximize smiting potential..
H:Power Attack
1st:Furious Focus(Despite what the others said i like this feat)
3rd:Greater Mercy
5th:Extra LOH
7th:Lunge
9th:Crit Focus
11th:Unsanct Knowledge
13th:Staggering Crit
15th:Extra LOH
17th:Stunning Crit
19th:Extra LOH
As Oath of Vengeance u get wrath as a 1st level spell, so dont pick that with unsanc knowledge.. You also get Blessing of Fervor, so i wouldnt take haste either.. I would look at the following:
1st:Shield of Faith
2nd:Mirror Image
3rd:Good Hope
4th:Divine Power
If your gm will allow the fey foundling feat take it at first over furious focus.. Its that good..
If your gm will allow the fey foundling feat take it at first over furious focus.. Its that good..
So I'm guessing Fey Founding isn't PFS legal? What book is it from?
Thanks for the help everyone. At the moment I am waiting to hear back from my GM on whether some things are approved or not before I can finalize my plan.
Our group is far from optimized, no full on casters, all partial. I'm not really trying to make sure all of our bases are covered, just trying to make a fun character. And being the negotiator isnt really my style. For interesting character reasons, I'm hoping to either take Oath Against Fiends so I have a built in dimensional anchor, Or Oath of Vengeance with Using the 3rd or 4th level of unsanctioned knowledge to get dim. anchor. I view my guy as more of a vindicator or templar. As dark a paladin can get and still be LG.
Again I know this isn't optimized, but for skills i think I am getting perception, sense motive, and knowledge planes and religion. I want to know about my evil enemies and tell when someone is lying to me. Some levels I will probably even spend a skill point in linguistics to make sure I know infernal, abyssal, and a few others.
I guess at the moment I could use some insight on what you all would consider superior stat-wise. Assuming Int13, and WIS7, i see the following options (these include my +2 str)
STR 17
DEX 12
CON 14
CHA 15
STR 18
DEX 12
CON 12
CHA 15
STR 17
DEX 12
CON 12
CHA 16
STR 18
DEX 11
CON 14
CHA 14
Of course there is a few more options. I'm leaning towards the first, but I'm also thinking would 18 STR be better than a chance at 16 CHA? The CHA abilities are nice, but take a 14, add in a +4 or +6 headband, and is an extra point worth losing hp, or AC, or hit and damage? I dunno. Or should I go Dex 10? or even 9 and have
STR 18
DEX 9
CON 14
CHA 15
I'm rambling at this point, I apologize. I'm playing D&D/Pathfinder for the first time in a few years so I'm just excited and I love thinking about this stuff.
depends on how long you will play this character, if its going to be a short campaign that wont get you past lvl 4, then go with the
STR 18
DEX 12
CON 12
CHA 15
if you DO get to play past lvl 4 then go with
STR 17
DEX 12
CON 14
CHA 15
these stats are the least dependent on leveling to advance, your CON is a bit lower, but having an 18 strength is more than important enough if you only play at low levels
if you do play to higher levels, then balancing those stats out will mater more