Stand and Deliver, hold person and grappling versus run away

[Neadenil Edam]

I have been thinking about the Stand and Deliver option the bandit types want.

The current plan seems to grant the overpowered magical ability to automatically stop and hold a merchant even when they are very low level bandits.

Instead what we need is something like this:
- by default Stand and Deliver gives the merchant 3 options ... either pay, fight or alternatively ignore and keep running (dodging arrows etc)
- In order to reduce the merchants options to just Pay or Fight the bandits must either grapple the merchant or use a spell like hold person to immobilize him.

[Valandur]

I'm wondering if any of the speed buffs effect your caravan? Whether its the merchant flag that adds to speed, or a Bards song, if there's a way to speed up the transport vehicle, it might be possible to AoE mezz, stun, hold the bandits then high tail it. If your close enough to a hex with guards or settlement with guards then its possible you might be able to flee the encounter. Lots of variables that would have to be worked out, but it's worth considering.

[Being]

Merchants will likely be using fast travel anyway. SAD is supposed to somehow provide an opportunity for the bandits in their hideout to evaluate/appraise the merchant as he is travelling and decide whether they want to spring a SAD on him. If they do it pops the merchant out of fast travel in front of them. My guess is that fast travel starts from a standstill, and that is the status the merchant falls out of fast travel into: a standstill. He is then confronted with the option to try and pay off the bandits or not. If he tries to pay off the bandits they have a chance to accept or deny his offer. If they accept his offer he pops back into fast travel to his destination. If the bandits don't accept his offer maybe he gets another chance or maybe not. If not they can choose to attack.

[Stephen Cheney]

Stand and Deliver as currently conceived doesn't have any control over a target's movement. It's a streamlined trade window without any more power to compel the target to stop than a strongly worded /tell. If you nuisance SAD someone, they can keep moving unhindered. It may have an effective range (like a normal trade window) and if the merchant leaves it, it counts as rejecting it, but we need to look into the tech restrictions and exploit possibilities of doing it that way.

Meanwhile, there's the complementary but not contingent system of hideouts and how they interrupt fast travel. We're still nailing down a lot of that as we get enough tech and map creation done to figure out more detail on how fast travel and private base building are going to work.

But we intend SAD to be something you don't require a hideout to use. If you're wandering in the deep wilderness and see a guy with a bunch of packs visible, you can absolutely send him a SAD rather than just jumping him outright. But if he's significantly faster than you, your SAD may be pretty much meaningless without a nearby base or allies to help you corner him.

[Bluddwolf]

So issueing a SAD attempt does not create an instance of being flagged with the "attacker flag".

Also, if it is not tied hideout, it is not specifically a bandit skill?

I have to say, I was kind of hoping that it would be tied to both, bandits and to bandits that are skilled enough to have built a hideout. If anyone can do it, then it reminds me a lot of smuggling in SWG. If some of you might remember, SWG smuggling allowed just about anyone to smuggle, and some even better than smugglers (Droid Engineers for example).

I had envisioned a SAD delivered from a hideout, very much like a warp disruption bubble in EVE. Merchant approaches, the bubble is sprung, slowing the merchant out of fast travel and unable to get back into fast travel until released. I can see that you still have that idea tied to the hideout, and I hope it stays that way.

IMO, a SAD if not tied to a hideout should not take the merchant out of fast travel. That, and hideouts should only be able to be built by fairly skilled bandits.

At least that way, banditry will be elevated to a highly skilled profession, and not something that any Joe Schmoe sitting at the side of the road could do effectively.

[The Wiseman of the Wilds]

Bluddwolf wrote:

I had envisioned a SAD delivered from a hideout, very much like a warp disruption bubble in EVE. Merchant approaches, the bubble is sprung, slowing the merchant out of fast travel and unable to get back into fast travel until released. I can see that you still have that idea tied to the hideout, and I hope it stays that way.

I like this idea. It gives the bandits an opportunity to disable the caravan, and the Merchants a good possibility of escape.

Regarding the use of Bandit Hideouts, maybe the level of the hideout could influence the time/distance the merchants must reach before being able to fast travel.

Could Bandits prepare for an ambush if they knew the caravan was coming? Placing obstructions/traps on the road the caravan is travelling.

[Tuoweit]

Being wrote:

If they do it pops the merchant out of fast travel in front of them.

No, the hideout merely stops the fast travel in its vicinity, it doesn't stop all movement. The bandits still have to catch the traveller through normal means. Of course the bandits could be hiding very close to the point along the road where that happens, but then they're not sitting safe inside their hideout all the time - those bandits who choose the low risk route of always sitting in their hideout until the last moment will probably find they don't actually catch many travellers (i.e. low reward).

Bluddwolf wrote:

So issueing a SAD attempt does not create an instance of being flagged with the "attacker flag".

I think you're reading too much into Stephen Cheney's statement. He didn't say anything either way about an Attacker flag, he just talked about its UI (something like a trade window). SAD is obviously a hostile action though, and IMO the target should be free to attack without repercussions - in other words, the bandit should get an Attacker flag. That's the risk you take giving your target warning instead of jumping by surprise - your target might always choose to fight back (or flee).

Bluddwolf wrote:

At least that way, banditry will be elevated to a highly skilled profession, and not something that any Joe Schmoe sitting at the side of the road could do effectively.

Since when does mugging someone require much skill other than picking targets and intimidating them into handing over their stuff? It is the lowest form of theft, and it IS something that any Joe Schmoe can do.

[Nihimon]

@Tuoweit and Bluddwolf,

To issue a SAD, you need to be flagged as Outlaw, which means you are already attackable whether or not you actually issue a SAD.

[carneaslaughter]

I like the idea of a weak SAD, especially since I hope to have my profession be 'caravan master/merchant/smuggler'.

I'd like to be able to fight the various bandits, but not be stopped every 15 feet by some annoying 1st level gold farmer.