Goblin Squad Member
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The "game" also had a lot of other unique things like the world starting with nothing, the players had to build everything, everything in the world could be torn down by players.That part sounds like PFO, where settlements can suffer permadeath.
We can rebuilt it. We have the technology.... *gets a hammer and a saw*
The "game" also had a lot of other unique things like the world starting with nothing, the players had to build everything, everything in the world could be torn down by players.That part sounds like PFO, where settlements can suffer permadeath.
A few things being planned for PFO were talked about as being in dawn. 11 years and no one has managed to get something like a fully player developed world into a game. I guess that's partly what attracted me to PFO, the chance to see some of this stuff in a MMO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That part sounds like PFO, where settlements can suffer permadeath.
Hey, that sounds familiar :) *
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Goblin Squad Member
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Discussion thread for new blog entry Goblinworks Blog: If I Had a Hammer
After reading a post about how a weapon could have up to 6 keywords, it got me wondering.
Could the crafting system incorporate a progressive modification model?
What I mean is, I have a quality 300 sword and as time passes I add more key words to it. Or are those keywords placed upon it when it is first crafted, and can not be modified later?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bluddwolf,
I'd love to see you able to modify your existing weapons and armor. Let's say you had a 300 skill sword and achieved very memorable feats with it, finally saved up the coin to have it enchanted, then stole the prize jewel from a particular boss-mob's lair and had it mounted in the pommel, etc. Wouldn't that be snappy? You would, over time, be creating a truly personalized item - the kind that in-game legends are made of.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bluddwolf,
I'd love to see you able to modify your existing weapons and armor. Let's say you had a 300 skill sword and achieved very memorable feats with it, finally saved up the coin to have it enchanted, then stole the prize jewel from a particular boss-mob's lair and had it mounted in the pommel, etc. Wouldn't that be snappy? You would, over time, be creating a truly personalized item - the kind that in-game legends are made of.
This is exactly what I had in mind. To take it one step further, the ability to name it and make it a part of our character's legacy. Perhaps even bind it to our account do that it need not be threaded and can only be passed onto another character on the same account.
GW, this would promote the idea that PFO is an MMO to be played for years and that characters will have a history, a legacy and that it can be passed down to future generations.
EvE is about to start its 11 th year and just hit 500,000 subscriptions! PFO could do the same or maybe better.
I would like to see the chance of an items quality changing when alterations are done to it, dependent on the quality of materials used in the modification as well as the skill of the crafter doing the modification coupled with the facilities level.
Being able to /look at the item and reading a description of it which includes mods like the jewel in the pommel, runes inscribed on the blade etc.. Would be excellent (can't forget the name of the crafter that made the item!).
I agree that elaborate items that share a characters flavor, and history would really encourage the type of long term play that GW wants to have in PFO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As for account binding...I really dislike account binding. It's unrealistic and stops any chance of the legacy quality item you speak of from ending up in someone else's hands, which could lead to whole wars being fought over such items. Imagine if the Crown Jewels of England were stolen by an invading force. I know the item will likely still be threaded even if account binding doesn't work, but I'm not all that thrilled with threading either. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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As for account binding...I really dislike account binding. It's unrealistic and stops any chance of the legacy quality item you speak of from ending up in someone else's hands, which could lead to whole wars being fought over such items. Imagine if the Crown Jewels of England were stolen by an invading force. I know the item will likely still be threaded even if account binding doesn't work, but I'm not all that thrilled with threading either. ;)
It is funny you mention wars being fought over legacy items, since there is a thread that discusses the merits for doing just that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can't say I'm completely sold on threading... If you have an super +7 bastard sword of decapitation, and you die, I would like to be able to loot it.
Only downside is that this could lead to epic weapons and armour not getting any use and just sitting in a guild trophy case somewhere.
Maybe when you 'thread' an item, you are bound to it and are aware of the item's general location? This way at least if someone takes something you have a chance to track it down.
I can't say I'm completely sold on threading... If you have an super +7 bastard sword of decapitation, and you die, I would like to be able to loot it.
Only downside is that this could lead to epic weapons and armour not getting any use and just sitting in a guild trophy case somewhere.
Maybe when you 'thread' an item, you are bound to it and are aware of the item's general location? This way at least if someone takes something you have a chance to track it down.
In one of the recent blogs there was mention of a way to snap a thread on an item. I can't recall the specifics nor if the item can be chosen or if it was random, but that does open up the possibility of being able to loot someone's "cool" item.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can't say I'm completely sold on threading... If you have an super +7 bastard sword of decapitation, and you die, I would like to be able to loot it.
Only downside is that this could lead to epic weapons and armour not getting any use and just sitting in a guild trophy case somewhere.
Maybe when you 'thread' an item, you are bound to it and are aware of the item's general location? This way at least if someone takes something you have a chance to track it down.
I admit further that I am on the fence. I do fear quite largely that the concept is very threatening to the idea of gear loss being at the frequency needed for the economy to be as robust as GW intends. On the plus side though, at least per the descriptions, if someone has an abnormally good item, it will take far more threads to protect it, Meaning that hypothetical +7 bastard sword of decapitation (which also dosn't sound much like what GW is intending, they've made it pretty clear that they aren't expecting gear to be at the point that a rich vet, will 1 shot young characters but for the sake of arguement lets assume this is the case), this character with it, will have his primary offense covered, but at a cost, he has no way to protect a secondary weapon, his armor, boots wondrous items etc... His one item is protected, but that's about all he can do.
I do agree with the flaw of the system in general, I don't really like the idea of the absolute best item a character has, being exempt from loss if he so chooses to, and I am still worried of what the potential of groups of people with bare minimum gear (IE what maximum quality of gear could be if 100% threading is the goal), having some potential within the right numbers. but we'll see I suppose.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Keovar,
Two reasons.
1. The threading mechanic could, I suspect, be written off as some intricate spell that retrieves all your threaded goods and plops them back in your pack upon resurrection, but compared to most of the spells that will likely be available to players, that seems rather powerful. If you had to employ a caster to cast that many thread spells on your gear, I suspect it would be rather pricey. Compared to these two points, the fact that it will just happen automatically to everyone - high and low, rich or poor, magic using or not - seems to slide the mechanic further away from plausible on the realism scale. As you and I have bantered about similar topics before, it will likely come as no surprise that it grates against my sense of realism, even if it's happening in a fantasy setting.
2. GW has already said that they predict that this system will most often be employed to protect a character's weapon(s) and armor. Because of this, the threading system is partly responsible for armor and weapon crafting being viewed as a separate crafting system due to how seldom people will lose these items and need to replace them. As much a pain as losing your gear might be, I don't like artificially created economic conditions.
Would some people leave their godly weapons or armor in the bank for fear of losing them if the threading system didn't exist...I suppose so, though it seems rather silly to own an item that you purposely avoid using.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I intend to recommend to my bandit company that we only use the highest quality gear, that we can still thread at 100%. The reason being, victory for us is not winning every battle, it's about ending each day with more gold then we started with. What we sacrifice in gear quality, we will try to make up with numbers and tactics.
Now if there is a way to unthread a victim's gear, we will be most interested in learning about that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In one of the recent blogs there was mention of a way to snap a thread on an item. I can't recall the specifics nor if the item can be chosen or if it was random, but that does open up the possibility of being able to loot someone's "cool" item.
You might be thinking of cutting a thread to a bind point, rather than an item. I think that is a power of the Assassin flag. As far as breaking threads on items, I've only heard of that as a death curse penalty. If you could see and cut threads on anyone's items, then there's no point to the threading and death curse systems.
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Goblin Squad Member
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1. The threading mechanic could, I suspect, be written off as some intricate spell that retrieves all your threaded goods and plops them back in your pack upon resurrection, but compared to most of the spells that will likely be available to players, that seems rather powerful. If you had to employ a caster to cast that many thread spells on your gear, I suspect it would be rather pricey. Compared to these two points, the fact that it will just happen automatically to everyone - high and low, rich or poor, magic using or not - seems to slide the mechanic further away from plausible on the realism scale. As you and I have bantered about similar topics before, it will likely come as no surprise that it grates against my sense of realism, even if it's happening in a fantasy setting.
The cheapest resurrection, raise dead costs 5000+ gold, so if price is the issue, the game would go permadeath.
I'm sure you'll be free to not use the threading system, if you're wanting to pretend the world is low-magic, just like anyone who thinks permadeath is fun should be free to delete their characters multiple times a day.If were were talking about a sci-fi setting (and not 'wizards with laser swords' in Star Wars), or some situation in which magic isn't involved, then there could be some external reference point to judge plausibility. However, this isn't about whether falling damage models physics well, it's about a magical blessing from a goddess. That's implausibility at such a fundamental level that it doesn't even make sense to use the word 'realistic' within that context.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sure I can..."realistic". There...I said it. :)
Many of these discussions have people's opinions falling on a spectrum from the harshest, most realistic conditions to waving aside every impossibility by saying, "It's magic." As players, we can fall at different points on that spectrum from one another and still play comfortably together in the same game.
Like several other issues I've posted about, is this a game changer? Nope. Might I even thread items? Sure. Do I have to agree its the best way to handle this. Nope. I simply give my two cents. Does it have to jive with your two cents. Nope. Does that make mine or yours better? Nope. But then, that's what these forums are for - exchanging what are hopefully productive ideas. If one poster had all the right answers, the rest of us posters wouldn't really be posters...we'd be readers.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't believe anyone is argueing against the threading system or the idea of respawning on the basis of realism.
I look at both as a way of making winning and losing in combat meaningful. I look at them as being a way to increase the tension and through that, create an atmosphere of danger, suspense and both achievement and failure.
I couldn't care less about the rationale behind the mechanics, I want the mechanics to enhance the experience of the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wonder if they would consider a highly expensive consumable that has the ability to break x number of threads. Like when you go to loot a body you can see their whole inventory, threaded and unthreaded, and have an option to break the threads on a single item in their inventory.
The cost would have to be fairly prohibitive, but if you KNEW that there was something to gain....
Or you know, just have it as a rogue trainable skill :p
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sure I can..."realistic". There...I said it. :)
I didn't say you couldn't, I pointed out it made no sense to.
Many of these discussions have people's opinions falling on a spectrum from the harshest, most realistic conditions to waving aside every impossibility by saying, "It's magic."
I also pointed out that it is a high-magic setting and threading is a blessing given by a goddess. That puts the middle of the spectrum pretty close to what you're describing as the latter pole.
Golarion may not be entirely drowned in magic like Forgotten Realms, but it isn't rare. It's a high-magic setting, and for characters born there that would just seem normal. Pretending that magic is rare would just mark you as somehow coming from a different world, deeply in denial, or simply oblivious. Pharasma is also one of the most widely-known deities of the setting, since birth and death are rather important subjects to mortals.