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Drinking is fun, but events with drinking tend to turn into events *about* drinking. That's not what my gaming time is for.
First, Link to my response due to dreaded bottom-of-page syndrome.
Secondly, a side note: You're making it sound like they're saying "You can never drink ever." Nobody's saying that. You're free to do whatever the hell you want away from the table. Is it really such a big issue to put the alcohol away for 4-6 hours? If it is, you have an issue and should seek help.
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This is drinking the host's milk all over again.
The host has set up some guidelines in their home. You follow those guidelines if you want to play in the group. That's all. Complaining about the rules makes you, not the host, look bad. And this goes from no alcohol during gaming to no shoes in the house to please keep your shirt on. You might find it silly, but you are the guest and expected to follow these guidelines.
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But hey, considering this isn't even a rule for your group, no problem! Don't play in mine. I not only want alcohol gone, I'll ban energy drinks. Those things reek even worse than booze.
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At our table seldom do we drink. once in a while though we will pop a growler and share a glass to those who want. or even a bottle of beer.
However. In the past in the group I am in we have had 2 people that drink HEAVILY.
One showed up drunk already and in the course of an 8 hour game down 3 - 4 giant cans of Guinness. I'm talking the monster, monster cans. He got obnoxious and worthless during the game.
Of late we had another person. When he did not drink we loved him. his RP was good, his ideas good. But the past few games he alone drank 1.5 growlers of local Micro brew some of which is 7+% and by games end he was annoying, interrupted, disrupted, and on the edge of being tossed from the group. He was ruining everyone elses fun
We put in a rule that says 2 - 12oz beers in 8 hours spaced over the night.
Another member of our group has another group. He has the same rule when they game at his place or a friends place
OH and we game at my place. So I have every right to make rules just like anyone else who hosts.
Don't like the rules? Don't come. I am sure someone else would have no problem with them and would love to game.
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I can't understand the immediate assumption that "anyone who has a drink = an idiot drunk," or "if there is a drop of alcohol within 10 miles of the table -> game is no fun for anyone anywhere ever."
That said, I also don't understand what the big deal is, if a particular host says "please no alcohol at my place." Their residence, their call, right?
I like to have a couple of beers while running a game at my home -- not enough to impair my functioning, but believe it or not, my avatar isn't telling the truth -- I can actually enjoy one or two drinks responsibly, contrary to the people who insist that it's impossible. I like when my players can do the same, but if a player chooses to abstain, that's OK, too.
In my home game, houstonderek, Andostre and I would take turns buying different types of beer for everyone to try, and it was a lot of fun. Rather than taking the focus away from the game, we felt it underlined the social aspect, kind of like sharing food does for a lot of people. Jess Door and Silverhair and Psychicmachinery generally chose not to have any, but that was their decision and I respected that (despite some obligatory good-natured jibes). TOZ generally didn't drink, but then again, he usually had an egregious drive ahead of him. Then again, I remember introducing him to bourbon...
Anyway, the point is that if you don't allow alcohol in your home, that's your right. But understand that many people are capable of drinking 1-2 beers without becoming slurring idiot drunks, and that if one of those people drinks a beer, it will not automatically destroy any game they come into contact with.
EDIT: But on a rare occasion that I'm hosting and NOT GMing, if the guest GM says I can't have a beer in my own home? Find somewhere else to game.
This is drinking the host's milk all over again.
The host has set up some guidelines in their home. You follow those guidelines if you want to play in the group. That's all. Complaining about the rules makes you, not the host, look bad. And this goes from no alcohol during gaming to no shoes in the house to please keep your shirt on. You might find it silly, but you are the guest and expected to follow these guidelines.
Though the GM isn't necessarily the host. He's still running things though.
I'm not sure when there's a conflict between host and GM over this kind of issue.
Yeah, speaking in terms of generalities. However, it's not just the GM that sets down rules; sometimes a player might need something addressed. It's best to address everyone during this sort of rule-making, though the GM will likely have the longest list.
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I can't understand the immediate assumption that "anyone who has a drink = an idiot drunk," or "if there is a drop of alcohol within 10 miles of the table -> game is no fun for anyone anywhere ever."
That said, I also don't understand what the big deal is, if a particular host says "please no alcohol at my place." Their residence, their call, right?
For me, it goes back to a bad stretch of roommates who were idiot drunks and getting stuck being the only non-drinker on what was deemed the party floor of the residence hall. You spend long enough surrounded by it, you learn to go with the idea of "Not everyone who drinks acts like this...but I really don't want to risk the odds."
That and the smell.
I can't understand the immediate assumption that "anyone who has a drink = an idiot drunk," or "if there is a drop of alcohol within 10 miles of the table -> game is no fun for anyone anywhere ever."
At least in my own case, alcohol does make the game unfun for me, but it's more the smell than the intoxication. I have no doubts that there are people who can drink, responsibly, at the table and maintain interaction, coherency, and immersion. But at least speaking for myself, the smell of alcohol at the table would be enough of a distraction for me to make involvement and immersion difficult. I can't stand the scent of yeast or alcohol, at all, and a game where liquor is present I will have to respectfully bow out. I don't enjoy spending time around drinking or in the presence of drinkers.
But at least speaking for myself, the smell of alcohol at the table would be enough of a distraction for me to make involvement and immersion difficult. I can't stand the scent of yeast or alcohol, at all, and a game where liquor is present I will have to respectfully bow out.
The smell of peanut butter and jelly makes me gag, but I don't tell the other players they're not allowed to eat sandwiches at the table. Hell, my wife eats the stuff and I put up with it. I just pick a chair that's further away.
Still, if someone can't deal with a particular thing, it's their choice not to play. I just don't like all this stuff about "DM rules trump the host's" and "all alcohol is evil and always ruins everything for everyone."
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I've thankfully never had to deal with the situation of GMing while not hosting, so that's not been an issue for me.
I guess I should applaud you for having better tolerance for something that disgusts you than I do. My knee-jerk reaction to the smell of alcohol is nausea. The one roommate I ever had who drank, I had to be in another room or outside whenever he opened a beer, and stay there until it was disposed of.
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I've thankfully never had to deal with the situation of GMing while not hosting.
Amen. When I'm running a game, I vastly prefer it to be at home so that I have all my stuff handy and don't have to worry about transportation on top of all the game stuff.
But at least speaking for myself, the smell of alcohol at the table would be enough of a distraction for me to make involvement and immersion difficult. I can't stand the scent of yeast or alcohol, at all, and a game where liquor is present I will have to respectfully bow out.The smell of peanut butter and jelly makes me gag, but I don't tell the other players they're not allowed to eat sandwiches at the table. Hell, my wife eats the stuff and I put up with it. I just pick a chair that's further away.
Yeah, I can live with the smell of alcohol if I absolutely have to, but I've had too many bad experiences with behavior to want to allow it. Not energy drinks, though. Red Bull especially makes me nauseous.
PC's already tend to act drunk half the time. Adding even a normally non-hindering amount of alcohol to their players is likely to cause all sorts of problems ;]
I remember Gygax saying that Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser were a fundamental influence on the game. And remember how much those two drank!
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Red Bull especially makes me nauseous.
Can't stand the stuff myself.
And I don't like the teenie-bopper style of drinking, where people swill gallons of crap, or want to do Jaeger bombs while yelling nonsense, or who otherwise view alcohol as nothing more than a means to get drunk. Red Bull seems like it's gotten to be part and parcel of all that.
For me, alcohol is an esoteric field of knowledge about which I enjoy acquiring more lore, and also a nice accompaniment to other things I enjoy -- kind of like how a good soundtrack doesn't necessarily destroy a movie; it can be a good counterpoint to the action instead.
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And I'm in said teenie-bopper age group where alcohol is generally considered just a means to get drunk. Hence my reticence to allow it. =)
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And I'm in said teenie-bopper age group where alcohol is generally considered just a means to get drunk. Hence my reticence to allow it. =)
Ah, forgive me. I'm an old fart, myself.
If I found myself in a situation where someone else was hosting and alcohol was something regularly made available at the table, I'd bring my concerns up to the host privately, try to see if arrangements can be made to have the drinking belayed during game time, relocate hosting to my place (presuming I have one, and it's suitable for guests), or otherwise work things out. If things couldn't be solved, I'd have to give my apologies to both them and the group, respectfully and regretfully (because I'm going to assume that if I'm going to these lengths to find a way to keep the game going, I like these people and am enjoying spending time with them, and would rather not have the games end), and inform them that I would be unable to continue unless new arrangements were made.
I would try to keep the situation between myself and the host as long as possible, but before completely dissolving the group (or just breaking off myself, if someone else in the group is willing/able to pick up GMing in my place) I would bring it up before the whole table to see if the group as a whole would be amenable to ceasing drinking at the table, relocating to a new host, or some other workable solution. At that point it would basically become majority vote, and if I find myself outvoted... well that's life, and I'd wish them good luck, hope they enjoy their future games, and go on my own way with no hard feelings.
And I think that's really the main point - trying to find something that works, within your limitations, and being respectful and polite about it, and accepting what comes even if you're on the losing end or it means you have to withdraw from the group. We're all (theoretically) adults here.
And I'm in said teenie-bopper age group where alcohol is generally considered just a means to get drunk. Hence my reticence to allow it. =)Ah, forgive me. I'm an old fart, myself.
S'all right. =) Thread's for explaining why we have certain rules, after all.
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1.5 Growlers = 3/4 gallon of beer as each growler = 1/2 gallon or 64 Fluid OZ. A normal can/bottle of beer is 12OZ
Add 1.5 growlers up in 8 hours that is 96 OZ of beer or 8 beer.
Based on the Bllod Alcohol Level chart http://dui.drivinglaws.org/drink-table.php or http://dui.drivinglaws.org/calc.php
At the amount our guy drinks, he is drink. Lucky his wife drives has based on the calculations he is .08 which is illegal to drive at
That is pretty drunk and thus hinders a game.
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TOZ generally didn't drink, but then again, he usually had an egregious drive ahead of him. Then again, I remember introducing him to bourbon...
Good times, good memories. :)
I also remember you being a gracious host about my drink preferences and providing me new root beers to sample. If I never did, let me thank you for that now.
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I also remember you being a gracious host about my drink preferences and providing me new root beers to sample. If I never did, let me thank you for that now.
You always did! And it was a pleasure for me, in the same way that sharing new beers with Jeff was, and that sharing new Ginger sodas with Mundane was.
Miss you guys!
In my current game, I'll have five or six beers while I GM. It usually helps to loosen me up a bit. If I'm a player, sometimes I'll drink more than that since I don't have to concentrate quite as much. I have a fairly high alcohol tolerance though.
Unfortunately for me, my stomach isn't physically large enough to hold 6 beers!
Nothing wrong with a few trips to the urinal. ;-)
Bah, then houstonderek reads all the bad guys' stats off of my notes, and memorizes the maps. Unless I take all that stuff in with me, which can get a little awkward.
Who tells people what to do and what they can and can't drink?Anyone who is in a position of authority.
e.g. a DM.
I don't see it as my place. I am not an authority over my players telling them what they as people can and cannot drink when they are relaxing with friends, that is the way of the dic*! The road of the nosy, the teetotaler calling of the clergy of bothersome.
I run a game (and try to be objective and impartial, try...), not police their lives or outlaw alcohol. Tsk tsk tsk.
Of course, I am playing with adults, which is why what they drink is not my business--they as adults choose what they drink.
If I found myself in a situation where someone else was hosting and alcohol was something regularly made available at the table, I'd bring my concerns up to the host privately, try to see if arrangements can be made to have the drinking belayed during game time, relocate hosting to my place (presuming I have one, and it's suitable for guests), or otherwise work things out. If things couldn't be solved, I'd have to give my apologies to both them and the group, respectfully and regretfully (because I'm going to assume that if I'm going to these lengths to find a way to keep the game going, I like these people and am enjoying spending time with them, and would rather not have the games end), and inform them that I would be unable to continue unless new arrangements were made.
I would try to keep the situation between myself and the host as long as possible, but before completely dissolving the group (or just breaking off myself, if someone else in the group is willing/able to pick up GMing in my place) I would bring it up before the whole table to see if the group as a whole would be amenable to ceasing drinking at the table, relocating to a new host, or some other workable solution. At that point it would basically become majority vote, and if I find myself outvoted... well that's life, and I'd wish them good luck, hope they enjoy their future games, and go on my own way with no hard feelings.
And I think that's really the main point - trying to find something that works, within your limitations, and being respectful and polite about it, and accepting what comes even if you're on the losing end or it means you have to withdraw from the group. We're all (theoretically) adults here.
Being "respectful and "polite" gets used rhetorically in all sorts of ways. Not everyone has to drink the same thing as you buddy, you can respect that.
Parents care. Would-be parents care.
This is the same with all manner of dietary b!!+$@#s, if one person is a vegan, even if they are the dm, they have no damn right to tell everyone else what to eat because they happen to hate certain foods and drink. Such people are really annoying and over-step boundaries.
Could you imagine a dm forcing a vego to eat a meat sandwich? "That is how it is done at this game. Or get out, because I say." lol.
As I've got older I've turned away from soft drinks and potato chips, so I don't get into those at the table. I find them pleasant no longer; and no dm or player has a foot to stand on telling me or another what I can and cannot drink or eat--be it ale, cucumber sandwiches with bbq sauce, prawn noodles or delicious local pizza.
Ale and beer are long-attached to the hobby. Way back in the day with its origins in America. These are just some of the drinks older players like to imbibe when they are bored of or over coke and pepsi (or have had enough sugar for tonight, thanks).
Less pushing of beliefs, less anti-alcohol nonsense, and more gaming.
Of course, I am playing with adults, which is why what they drink is not my business--they as adults choose what they drink.In their own homes. Not in mine.
Is coffee fine? Is Italian coffee with some grappa fine? Respect peoples' tastes and culture buddy.
No, if you say they cannot, you are not respecting their choices on what they drink or eat during leisure time.
During leisure time! Jeez do you get it yet?
You are not their employer, or their parent, and trying to act like you are is weird and not your place. Dungeon master does not mean what-is-drunk-by-others master.
Go on, tell me WIDBOM.
Ha! How could they prove that they are responsible, when they are not allowed to drink? The problem is you have banned it out-right, without people proving anything. Across the board with the habits, character and the wishes of individuals not considered. Makes no sense pal.
The groups I have known, totally responsible drinking. Three ales over four hours leads to no problems or people being unresponsible (heaven forbid!), but people are a bit more chilled (ahhh golden ale). A couple of stiff drinks, and then on with the show with some snacking on the side, likewise no problems at all.
Lack of trust, looking down on players, don't think they have any self-control so you make the choice for them. Calling it.
You can do better than this Steven, be better than this.
A cool drink after a hard in-game struggle and a great monster kill, those are fine moments.