| NewDM |
Hey guys, I only have a little bit of experience with D&D in general (played maybe 5 or 6 times) and am about to DM a group where most people have a lot more experience than me since no one else wanted to DM. It is my FIRST time DM'ing. Here are the character creation rules I am going to use, please let me know if I should add or edit these. Thanks!
Character Creation:
Create your character and send it to me at least 3 days before the first session. The sooner the better.
Choose any “Core” or “Base” class from here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes
Choose any race from here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races I suggest using one of the “Core” races. Some of the “Other” races are fine too, but you must first get my approval.
You should communicate with the rest of the players and determine together who will play what class, so you don’t end up with 4 of the same class.
Create a background for your character. Where does he come from? Describe what he looks like and what his most important life experience was. Doesn’t have to be more than a couple of paragraphs.
Create a “life goal” for your character. “Kill the king!” “Become the king!” “Win the annual tournament!” - Whatever - it could be literally anything.
Use a 20 point ability buy: http://tools.digitalightbulb.com/pbcalc.html
Choose two traits. Don’t just choose the best two traits for combat. Please keep your character’s backstory in mind and choose two that actually would pertain to him/her. A list of traits can be found here: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/advancedNewRules.html
No hero points.
Use the average starting gold for your class found here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/character-creation (Paragraph 8 under “Get Equipped”).
Try to avoid “min-maxing” and pure optimization for your character that does not take in to account story and roleplay. The game is balanced assuming you aren’t 100% perfectly optimized, and you don’t need to be to survive.
All of the rules of the game can be found here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/
| NewDM |
I'd also appreciate any suggestions for "houserules" to adopt.
I'm considering this rule: All dice rolled by the DM will be rolled publicly and nothing will be "fudged" or hidden (unless the story calls for a secret roll for whatever reason).
Is that a good idea? I don't want to make my players think I am fudging things to keep them alive, and I want them to feel the fear of actual possible PC death, which is much more real if you know the DM can't hide a "hit" or a high damage roll...
| Distant Scholar |
I'd be a bit concerned about opening up every core or base class out there; some of them can be pretty tricky to correctly wrap your head around, especially if you don't have a lot of experience. But, if you're up to the challenge, and your players aren't trying to take advantage, it shouldn't be a real problem.
| NewDM |
I'd be a bit concerned about opening up every core or base class out there; some of them can be pretty tricky to correctly wrap your head around, especially if you don't have a lot of experience. But, if you're up to the challenge, and your players aren't trying to take advantage, it shouldn't be a real problem.
Yeah, I was thinking about that. I've read on here that both "Summoners" and "Zen Archers" are OP. So I might ban those...
I'm also considering the following rule since I am new and don't really understand most of the classes. My concern is that the rule sounds super harsh and almost a%$#$%*-ish. I would appreciate feedback if it sounds fine or how to word it better or change it:
"It is your responsibility to understand your PC, your class, skills, race, etc. There are plenty of online forums to ask for help understanding your class, skills, spells, or feats if you need them. I will trust each player to honestly and maturely account their feats, health, damage, AC, etc. That said, if we are in-game, and I feel like something is fishy, and I may double-check your numbers. If something is "accidentally off" to your benefit, I will take it as an opportunity to mete out a merciless punishment on your PC which could be any number of things, including a permanent curse, or whatever evil I have imagined up at that moment. "
-the idea is that I can't possibly police every facet of everyone's classes when I don't even know what a Sorcerer does, so I want them to be a little bit afraid of "fudging" the numbers for their own benefit thinking that I won't catch them.
| Fig |
Yeah, I'm with DS on this one: While it's awesome to see a great variety of classes/races, you might prefer to limit it to just the Core Rulebook. That said, you could probably do well with the Advanced Player's Guide, though be careful with the Summoner.
I have similar thoughts with the races: For simplicity, use only Core races.
Finally, be sure everyone knows how you will handle character death. Perhaps you sit down with everyone, let them know your thoughts and get your players' thoughts. Write out the final PC death rules so there are no excuses.
EDIT: Actually, as long as you aren't using the Ultimate books, it shouldn't be as much an issue for some of the classes. Consider no archetypes?
| Scaevola77 |
So, your outline for character creation looks good. My only suggest might be to limit it somewhat in terms of what books are allowed. My first time DMing, I put in place the rule of "Core and Advance Player Guide are fair game. Ultimate Combat/Ultimate Magic: check with me, but most likely. Archetypes: check with me, but most likely. Anything else, check with me and if it fits well I will let you use it." The big thing I worried about was being able to understand everyone's abilities. By saying anything outside the core required a check with me, I made sure I got a heads up on the type of things the players were going to be able to do so that I could rule properly. I don't think I disallowed a single thing, but it was nice to get that heads up.
Hidden or open DM rolls preference varies from table to table. I prefer to have them hidden, just because I like to add the mystery, maintain the ability to fudge rolls if necessary, and a few of my players are too prone to metagaming (they actually listen for me rolling dice to try to anticipate something happening). I would say, do what you think feels right, maybe try out both and see which you like better?
Having a rule that players are expected to know their own abilities makes sense. I, personally, still try to know enough about their abilities to be able to know what they are capable of so I can adjust encounters if necessary, and so I can be more informed in the event a ruling is required regarding their abilities. I'm not sure if mercilessly punishing PCs for mistakes makes sense. Simply saying that "If I think something fishy is going on and find there were mistakes in your favor, I reserve the right to take action to balance those advantages".
| Matt2VK |
From what I've heard, "Summoners" can get crazy and they can bog down the game if they focus on summoning lots and lots of creatures. You read through the forums on people running games and most do bane "Summoners".
"Zen Archers" from can be slightly crazy but they break down to about equal compared to a Archery Ranger or Bow focused fighter.
Races - I play with the racial tensions listed in the racial guide. Dwarves dont like elves, hate orcs (half orcs), Teiflings aren't trusted at all and most people consider them 'devils', etc. I warn my players to expect that and it helps round out the world and gives more roleplaying.
Spells - there's a fair number of spells open to DM/Player interpretation, example are illusions and charm spells. Make sure both you and the player can agree on how they work. Since you're a new GM, also warn that you might think something is overpowered or too weak and you might end up changing your ruling on it.
| Haladir |
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I'm a GM with more than 25 years of experience under my belt, and I run a "Core Classes Only / Core Races Only / No Traits" game myself. I do allow archetypes, but they are all individually subject to my approval.
I also ban PCs from acquiring spells or purchasing magic items from any source other than the Core Rulebook. That said, I do drop both as treasure, and any spell from a Paizo PFRPG source can be found via independent spell research.
I agree with the other poster who talked about death in your game: Be sure to set expectations with your players. If you're running a world where there are only a handful of clerics higher than 5th level, then they need to know that there usually isn't anyone around to cast raise dead.
You'll want to set housekeeping rules as well: What happens to PCs of players that can't make a session? Do the PCs just hang out at the bar while the rest go adventuring; do they disappear in a shimmering light, then reappear when their players are present again; are they fully present as GM-run NPCs, subject to getting killed and using up charged items while the player is absent; etc.
Along those lines, how many players need to be present to run a game? (i.e. if three players have to cancel, do you still run the regular game... or do you play Settlers of Catan instead for the night?)
Also make sure you state up front if you're going to run with any house rules... like the popular "three natural 20s is an instant kill" rule. (I happen to hate this one and don't use it myself, but that's just me.)
Finally, it might be a good idea to codify your house rules in a document that you can hand out to your players, or post it online in a place that your players can access.
Good luck!
| NewDM |
I'm a GM with more than 25 years of experience under my belt, and I run a "Core Classes Only / Core Races Only / No Traits" game myself.
I agree with the other poster who talked about death in your game: Be sure to set expectations with your players. If you're running a world where there are only a handful of clerics higher than 5th level, then they need to know that there usually isn't anyone around to cast raise dead.
Good luck!
Why no traits?
Also, why do you think about 20 point ability buy? Should I do 25 instead?
Also, I'm not sure at all how to deal with Player Death. If a player actually dies (negative HP equal to Constitution), why are their options for "raising dead"?
| Chengar Qordath |
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I really wouldn't advise banning anything purely because someone on the internet says it's overpowered. After all, half the threads in general discussion seem to be arguments about which classes are overpowered and/or underpowered. With the occasional glaring exception, it's pretty much entirely a matter of opinion which classes are "broken."
| Fig |
Why no traits?
Also, why do you think about 20 point ability buy? Should I do 25 instead?
Also, I'm not sure at all how to deal with Player Death. If a player actually dies (negative HP equal to Constitution), why are their options for "raising dead"?
Traits are a personal thing: effectively you are offering a pair of "half feats" to each character at first level. It's a matter of personal preference.
Point-buys are up to you, too. I've used 20pts for essentially all of my games, and it can easily create entirely playable characters. Heck, I would say it even offers a bit of "wiggle room" for characters. Not having used 25, I would guess that it would make some fairly high powered PCs. I tend to like 15 quite a bit, though: there are choices to be made, but it can lead to major attribute deficits/dumps and limit the attractiveness of some classes (I'm looking at you, Monk and Paladin).
As for player death, the rules say that actual death occurs at (negative Constitution score)hp. Here are the rules for dying, and generally conditions in the game, courtesy of Reyst's PFSRD. There are a number of spells that can revive, raise and resurrect, and if you so choose, these spells can be purchased from local temples. Otherwise, you could provide the deus ex machina and divinely raise characters and exact tolls for doing so (require a character to accomplish a deity aligned task or the character is slain).
| NewDM |
Thanks for the info. I have one additional question while I have everyone's attention.
Is it best to start an adventure with a "You all know each other already and are friends." or should I create some sort of scenario where they all just meet each other? The latter seems difficult since one character may push back a bit and be like "well, if I'm Roleplaying my druid correctly, he really has no reason to care too much about this Paladin and Wizard, so I don't see why I should join this group."
So, what is the best way to do the in-character introductions?
| Scaevola77 |
How best to do character introductions depends on the group. My suggestion is to have some hook that will bring them together. To do this effectively and forestall one character pushing back, I would recommend asking the players to send you their backstories before the first session so you can make sure that whatever initial plot hook you devise will catch them all. If you are lucky, some of your players may intend to have their characters already know each other, which would make things easier.
I find there are three often used approaches:
1 - "You are all in a tavern" - Simply getting all the characters are in one central location. Get them to start interacting with each other. This is really best used in conjunction with the other two approaches, but I have seen it work standalone where the backstories and player roleplaying ability caused the group to band together on its own.
2 - Toss them into a combat immediately/present them with an immediate threat - The characters are all in one place when a sudden combat starts (goblins are invading, bar-fight, etc). The characters are forced to band together to fight this threat. Count on the combat to unite the PCs
3 - Special recruitment - Have an NPC single out and recruit the PCs for their cause. They are the most skilled group of adventurers and the NPC needs their help.
| Anonymous Visitor 163 576 |
I'm concerned about the goal thing. 'Become the king' might be FAR from what fits in, if you start the campaign shipwrecked, or as part of a tribal hunting party,
Why not give the players a sense of the setting and broad plot outline 'war w dragons' or 'explore undersea city', so they can build pcs that are appropriate and fit in.
Remember, the pc's don't need to be balanced against some kind of outside standard,, they need to be balanced against each other.
| NewDM |
Remember, the pc's don't need to be balanced against some kind of outside standard,, they need to be balanced against each other.
Why do the PCs need to be balanced against each other if they are working together as a team? That implies that if I'm a PC, I would try to stop my teammate from getting a +5 sword of badassery because it would make him stronger than me. But don't I want to support my teammates becoming really good so we can do better stuff as a team?
| Anonymous Visitor 163 576 |
Yes, you want to do better stuff as a team. And going as far as you suggest is counter-productive.
But if that teammate has the +5 sword of bad assery, the helm of magnificence, and the cape of perfection, you're going to be awfully lonely with your MW sling and 9 cp.
Long term, it's more fun when it's actually a team, and everyone has a chance to shine.
Look up Angel Summoner and BMX bandit on YouTube, for an idea of what not to do.
| Phasics |
I'd also appreciate any suggestions for "houserules" to adopt.
I'm considering this rule: All dice rolled by the DM will be rolled publicly and nothing will be "fudged" or hidden (unless the story calls for a secret roll for whatever reason).
Is that a good idea? I don't want to make my players think I am fudging things to keep them alive, and I want them to feel the fear of actual possible PC death, which is much more real if you know the DM can't hide a "hit" or a high damage roll...
As a New GM its very useful to be able to fudge dice if you run into the problem that you've made an encounter waaaay to easy or waaay to hard and didn't intend to. I wouldn't atempt open dice unless your a very confident GM or your prepared to deal with the situation of character deaths.
e.g. 2nd combat of first session your NPC barbarian just rolled a nat 20 and the PC Fighter he's about to hit only has 2HP left with the triple crit on the great axe there's a serious risk of killing the fighter outright. If you rolled that hidden you can make it 19 and the fighter will just be dying. If its open you'll probably end up with a dead fighter.
As a homebrew rule Free Vital strike chain of feats at +6, +11 and +16 I think is a very good homebrew rule that encourages players to move and hit rather than full attacking which can make encounters easier to design and play out if your not worrying about huge full round attack damage all the time.
| Kitsune Knight |
As others have said it probably is best if you stick to the core rules for now. I would even go so far as to limit it to 15 point buy and see what sort of APs you would be interested in running just so you and your group can focus on getting the rules down first. (I only suggest 15 as to my knowledge that is what most APs are balanced for if you want to run 20 just to add some ease of play into the games it wont be too game breaking assuming a party of 4).
As for rolling in the open that is what I do when running at my tables. Helps enforce a policy of honesty in my games as players feel that if I am not fudging for or against them then they consider the game more fair. Also, I am not one for pulling my punches so I let them know that they shouldn't be surprised if their characters fall. However, I also tend to run very high powered games in general (25 point buy, Gesalt rules, max HP every level if not wounds and vitality), so the players really have a lot of advantages to stand against my buzzsaw games. Again, your mileage will very and what type of game you and your players want should be talked about before hand. Especially, in the matters of player power and death.
Finally, in the area of how the players know each other I generally just let the players handle that during our get together for character creation. Usually, this is when they make characters, I tell them about the ideas I have for the story, and we work together to create how their characters fit not only within the story themselves but together as a whole. Now this is a lot of work so I tend to set it aside for the first session or get together (or through e-mail/facebook if we can't all meet), and honestly, may not be the best for every situation (I have often use the "your a group of friends going out to the bar" for my pick-up games). Again, as with all advice, your mileage may very.
And if it hasn't been said enough: Happy Gaming!
P.S.-realized I used a lot of words without saying much at all. In short: 1) Use APs/modules and stick to core rules until you figure out the basics. 2)Talk to your players about how lethal of a game they want, how they feel about rolling in the open vs fudged rolls, etc. (remeber, communication is always key) 3) Personally, I would run with they all ready know each other (leave the how to a later date).
| magnuskn |
Another vote here to disallow the Summoner. I've been GM'ing for close to ten years now and I don't want that headache. And their Eidolons skeeve me out. ^^
Not a big fan of the Gunslinger, either, both for lore and for balance reasons. Their ability to bypass AC all day long really is difficult to work with as a GM.
Another houserule I use: No sundering. Works out both for you and your players. You don't have to deal with players building characters who sunder the weapons of your BBEG, the players get to keep the loot they get from their opponents.
I'll refrain from posting my houserules regarding magic item crafting, since I think as a new GM you probably want to make your own experiences if the rules as written work out for you.
| NewDM |
I'll refrain from posting my houserules regarding magic item crafting, since I think as a new GM you probably want to make your own experiences if the rules as written work out for you.
I don't fully understand magic item crafting. What is there to watch out for and why do some people houserule it?
| Stome |
I personally would bar summoner for a new DM, Not because its "OP" but because the rules that govern it are just a flat out pain in the back side.
Again this is only my preference but I would not leave out alternate classes. Specifically if I had someone that wanted to play a rogue I would nudge them towards Ninja. It is what rogue always should have been IMO.
As for house rules. Honestly I see to many house rules as a bad thing. But one I do like is the half and half hp rolls. What I mean is half of their hp is given and half rolled. So a d6 hp class gets 3+1d3. A d12 class gets 6+1d3. This helps so that you don;t end up with that poor fighter that has less hp then the wizard.
| Matt2VK |
I don't fully understand magic item crafting. What is there to watch out for and why do some people houserule it?
Another issue with it is game balance. When your players can make whatever they want, it can knock things out of whack. There are some items, combined with actions or other items that are just broken. Limiting what's out there can help keep this in check.
Which brings up a point. Some GMs ask for a wish list of items there players would like to come across. Check with the players on how they plan on using those items if they get them.
| SpoCk0nd0pe |
Personally, I go with Core+APG. It has enough room for character customization so players can express their ideas in mechanics without anyone having to search multiple books to get their stuff. I feel the other books I looked at just brought more powerful options.
I like 20 point buy best. With a 15 point buy the charismatic two weapon fighter or the smart sorcerer are too expensive while 25 point buy offers too many stats.
Following an AP is probably a good idea too. You will have a basic story and a baseline in encounter/reward design. You can just go from there and modify whatever does not suit your taste. But the design of a dungeon, a town of NPCs with shops, correct reward placement (the mechanical part of running Pathfinder) can be pretty time consuming. Especially for someone new to DMing.
My house rules:
1. Any player can take average HP on level up (d6=3.5 etc.). (*)
2. The Wizard, Druid, Cleric and Witch, starting at level 3, loose one spell slot of the highest level they can cast (so they start with 0 base spells when attaining a new spell level).
3. The APG Human alternate favored class bonus for spontaneous casters provides only 1/2 of a new spell.
(*)@ Stome: The problem I have with your approach is that vanilla the d6 class will get 3.5 HP average while the d12 class will get 6.5. With your house rule the d6 class will get 4.5 and the d12 class 9.5. So your method is not neutral towards different dices (the larger dice will profit more).
| magnuskn |
magnuskn wrote:I don't fully understand magic item crafting. What is there to watch out for and why do some people houserule it?
I'll refrain from posting my houserules regarding magic item crafting, since I think as a new GM you probably want to make your own experiences if the rules as written work out for you.
Well, depending on the time-scale of your campaign, a magic item crafter with Craft Wondrous Item can seriously undermine the balance of the game, especially when you,as a GM, don't know yet how to balance against that.
Keep in mind that the following things are said under the assumption that WBL is calculated with gems/art objects being sold at 100% market price and magic items and mundane arms/armor being sold at 50%, with the latter being assumed to happen with all those items, so as to calculate the WBL of the party. Paizo APs certainly seem to calculate that way, although GMs of homebrewn campaigns of course can do whatever they like.
That being said, here is why magic item crafting can be problematic:
Magic item crafting in Pathfinder uses only two factors to balance against the crafter coming near to doubling the WBL of the party. Money influx and time. The money you, as the GM, feed to the party, can be turned by a good crafter into double the money, since there is a 50% discount on crafting magic items. If you continue to funnel the normal amount of money to the party which you'd expect them to have without their party crafter, this can cause your party to be much more capable of surmounting challenges than they should be at their level, which will force you to readjust all challenges the party faces.
Moreover, in many cases the party crafter will use his feat to mostly benefit himself, because of the time factor. Since most campaigns move on a scale of happening over a few months to two years, the party crafter will normally first craft for himself, then for his party. This often results in one player in the party becoming much more capable than the rest of his teammates, which poses yet another challenge to a new GM, because suddenly he has to adjust opponents so that they still challenge this one overpowered party member, while not utterly crushing the less powerful rest of the group.
If you as the GM give the party tons of time downtime, meaning months between actual adventures, you can sort of balance this out, because then the party crafter most likely will craft everyone up to be much better than they are supposed to be. This still can result in the party crafter being much better than the rest of the group, depending on if he crafts at price or if he takes a comission from the other players.
There is a recent FAQ entry by Sean K. Reynolds which says that the crafting feat is really only meant to benefit the crafter, but I find that one difficult to implement. Not only does it ignore a decade of precedence, but it also provides no rationale for that "fix", neither in-lore ( "Why does crafting suddenly only work for me?" ) nor from a game rules perspective ( "What mechanic stops the crafter from crafting for his group mates?" ).
There are detractors of what I said, who try to push the notion that crafting only gives an effective +1 to every relevant stat, so it's very easy to balance against. Those people are wrong, because they disregard that good crafters don't simply craft a little better versions of their gear for every slot, they normally specialize. Meaning that you can expect a Wizard to boost his intelligence score much sooner than possible, resulting in monsters having a very low chance to resist his spells, and so on.
Now, just in case that you, after this diatribe of mine, are still reading and interested, here in short my own houserules which try to fix all those problems above. The base assumption of mine here is that crafting gives two benefits.
1.) Gear customization
2.) A WBL discount.
Prohibiting magic item crafting completely takes agency out of your players hand, which I regard as bad, especially after a decade of it being a normal part of the game. As such, the question becomes how to fix the system, so that the imbalancing factors are evened out, yet the players still want to take the feats. Here's the solution I am using for my own campaign:
1.) Crafting cost is 95% of market price.
2.) Crafting feats are consolidated. Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Arms and Armor stay the same, but the other feats are consolidated into Craft Scrolls, Potions and Wands and Craft Rods, Rings and Staffs. You can take those two new feats at the lowest level in which one of the three type of items becomes available to craft ( i.e. Craft Scrolls, Potions and Wands at level one ), but the other functions only activate at the proper levels (i.e. crafting Wands in the latter example activates at level 5).
3.) Crafting times are reduced in both time scale to complete an item and time to craft per day. Crafting progress is doubled (i.e. 2000 gp per day, 4.000 gp with the +5 Spellcraft modifier) and time invested per day is down to two hours, one hour of meditation/concentration and one hour of actual crafting.
There are still some kinks in those houserules, like crafting the consumables in my campaign still being at 50% market price ( because they are gone after being used and I want to see how that works out ), but that is the overall gist of what I've done. The essential calculation was to take away the imbalancing factor of the WBL discount, while still providing players the option to customize their gear and make it easier to do so when they pay the cost of taking those feats.
| Blueluck |
I think your rules are excellent, and it's great that you're stating your expectations clearly up front.
I suggest that you don't make a rule saying the DM will roll publicly. If you want to roll publicly, go ahead and do it sometimes. Personally, I like to roll publicly for occasional critical rolls, to add drama to the situation. However, rolling publicly with experienced players can give them inside information about enemies.
ciretose
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Congrats on your friends putting faith in you to GM. It's a big compliment.
Now for suggestions for your email or rules.
For the ground rules I would go with this version:
"Run your concept by me as soon as possible and then once I approve it please get me your character least 3 days before the first session. The more backstory you give me, the better quests I can write to involve your character.
Keep in mind you are going to be a part of a group, so make sure your character fits with other peoples concepts. I'll try and let you know if I see potential conflicts as you each send me a concept.
All “Core” races are fine, but “Other” races must first get my approval.
Use a 20 point ability buy, no stats under 8 (ed: or whatever you decide) You can pick two traits, but the traits actually have to make sense with the concept. If you aren't sure, run it by me first."
And end it there. You don't want to be to pushy, but you also want to make sure all concepts are run by you before you build. 8 is usually a decent cut off, since a -2 in a stat will put the "average" of that build there.
But I would also include a lot more info about the setting. Where is the party going to adventure?
Sic_Pixie
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I would advise core classes and races and no evil for a starting DM.
Core Classes and Races for the reasons stated above; you have a finite amount of time on your hands to get to know the system and everything else. You can always open it up afterwards but taking away something you already gave causes more friction. It’s easier to concentrate on being a good DM when you’re not searching through your 3rd book to clarify some odd ruling.
No evil for the pretty basic reason you’re new to this. You want to make the first game as easy as possible to run. I never allow a new player to my group to play an evil character (regardless of their experience outside of the group). You just never know if they will play stupid evil or actual interesting and constructive to the storyline evil until you have a grip on their roleplaying technique.
Here are the basic rules I have posted at my table.
10 Basic Rules of Roleplay
1. You’re here to play, no phones mp3 players or other distractions unless you’re on call or waiting on an important message.
2. This is supposed to be fun; if you’re not having fun your doing it wrong … (PS talk to me after game and we will discuss)
3. If something is happening away from your character then you don’t know its happening. Just because you can hear it’s happening at the table does not mean your character does. Suspiciously moving to where the action/treasure is without knowing its happening/there is not acceptable.
4. You say what you say; you are your character. If you say something inappropriate then the people around your character hear you and may act accordingly.
5. Play your character no-one else’s. There is no right or wrong way to play a character. Other people have different idea’s on how to play a fighter / cleric / rogue / wizard. Respect this.
6. Dice are rolled in full view of the DM and players unless specifically asked otherwise. (the DM is exempt from this but playing with a significant other all DM rolls are in the open too as no favorites)
7. If you die then it’s the dice’s fault or your tactics; the DM is only the storyteller. There is always a way out of every situation just because you don’t see it; it’s still there. (Meeting the Tarrassque aside)
8. Drinking is allowed however if you die while drunk the DM is not responsible.
9. If you fail to attend a game session your character is likely to wake up with a dodgy tattoo or sexually transmitted disease in the morning. (Courtesy of the other players; DM is not involved)
10. Life is not fair and nor is Roleplay. Live with it.
Rules are there to help you not to hinder.
Hope this helps
Sic
| DrDeth |
Thanks for all of the advice so far. keep it coming!
Those aren’t houserules so much as campaign set up.
Also- what books do you want to allow? I suggest Core & APG to start, maybe the three ultimate books. There are some weird feats and stuff in some of the campaign guides and some stuff is actually 3.5. Summoner is pretty nasty for a DM, and Synthesist & Master Summoner are even worse.
You can stop min-maxing by saying “You get no points for choosing a stat below 10”.
I suggest:
No Evils, and no CN that act CE.
No PvP.
No splitting the party.
Yeah, it can be a good idea to start an adventure with a "You all know each other already and are friends”
| Tholomyes |
10 Basic Rules of Roleplay
1. You’re here to play, no phones mp3 players or other distractions unless you’re on call or waiting on an important message.
2. This is supposed to be fun; if you’re not having fun your doing it wrong … (PS talk to me after game and we will discuss)
3. If something is happening away from your character then you don’t know its happening. Just because you can hear it’s happening at the table does not mean your character does. Suspiciously moving to where the action/treasure is without knowing its happening/there is not acceptable.
4. You say what you say; you are your character. If you say something inappropriate then the people around your character hear you and may act accordingly.
5. Play your character no-one else’s. There is no right or wrong way to play a character. Other people have different idea’s on how to play a fighter / cleric / rogue / wizard. Respect this.
6. Dice are rolled in full view of the DM and players unless specifically asked otherwise. (the DM is exempt from this but playing with a significant other all DM rolls are in the open too as no...
7. If you die then it’s the dice’s fault or your tactics; the DM is only the storyteller. There is always a way out of every situation just because you don’t see it; it’s still there. (Meeting the Tarrassque aside)
8. Drinking is allowed however if you die while drunk the DM is not responsible.
9. If you fail to attend a game session your character is likely to wake up with a dodgy tattoo or sexually transmitted disease in the morning. (Courtesy of the other players; DM is not involved)
10. Life is not fair and nor is Roleplay. Live with it.
While I'm not one to say "Bad-wrong-fun" to people, since this is part of an advice-post, I'll take this opportunity to critique some of these rules, as they relate to advice for the new GM here.
2) I like the rule and I agree with it mostly, but the "you're doing it wrong" part is where I have to argue; That statement puts unnecessary hostility between player and GM. I'd rephrase it: " if you’re not having fun something is wrong, and talk to me after"
7) I actually don't mind this rule, but I wouldn't advise it for new GMs. Essentially, an inexperienced DM will be far more likely to kill the PCs accidentally, with a fight that is more difficult than the CR would indicate. With a new DM, this rule can almost create a similar hostility as I mentioned above, as it seems like the DM is deflecting blame for unbalanced encounters.
9) I suppose this depends on how much you trust your players, but generally if someone misses a session (and assuming this isn't a frequent occurrence), I generally say that nothing negative happens to the PC, unless the player agrees to let another player, or the DM NPC his character. This goes along to what I feel is the fundamental purpose of the game: It's supposed to be fun, so the players should want to show up, and there shouldn't be a feeling of "I better make it to the game, or else the other players will treat my character like the guy who passes out at a frat party."
10) It's not that I necessarily disagree, but I think this is a blunt way of putting it, and there are cases where I would flat out disagree. For example, if a PC dies in combat, I wouldn't necessarily fudge anything, because there needs to be some risk, but if the PC get's one-shotted by a lucky blow, I might overrule and say, that the PC is unconscious and bleeding out, but not dead, and I might even provide some sort of stipulation to it, like if the character got one shotted by cultists, I might say that when the wound heals, they notice that the scar has formed in the shape of the cultists' god's holy symbol, and that it's slowly corrupting the PC.
I suppose my main contribution, which I try to use as a lens when I DM is this advice: Remember, as much as the rules exist for a reason, you also have to recognize that that reason is to facilitate fun for all involved. If a certain aspect of the rules does not work towards that goal (for example, getting one-shotted in a fight, and killed instantly), then it's up to you as a DM to say "I know the rule is X, but would anyone mind if Y happened instead?"
| David knott 242 |
Thanks for the info. I have one additional question while I have everyone's attention.
Is it best to start an adventure with a "You all know each other already and are friends." or should I create some sort of scenario where they all just meet each other? The latter seems difficult since one character may push back a bit and be like "well, if I'm Roleplaying my druid correctly, he really has no reason to care too much about this Paladin and Wizard, so I don't see why I should join this group."
So, what is the best way to do the in-character introductions?
I rather like the approach the DM took in one campaign I played in. As background information, he described the setting as a great empire ruled by an evil lich queen. One of the questions he wanted us to answer while creating our characters was "WHy do you want to kill the lich queen?" Our answers to that question united the party with a common campaign goal.
| mdt |
My suggestions to a new DM.
A) Don't allow Summoner's in your game. Not because they're overpowered, but because they are VERY complex. And it's very easy to screw up the build unless you are very OCD about rules and numbers.
B) Don't do 'open rolling' unless you want to leave most of the game up to pure chance. You will make mistakes, and only catch it after it happens. I've been GMing for just about 25 years (god I feel old now), and I still make mistakes. The easiest way to fix a mistake is to fudge a roll later to balance it out. For example, if I forget that the Bad Guy was under a STR Buff spell the entire time, and didn't add it into his damage, I can add 20 hp to his total and balance that out when he's close to going down. If I forgot I took off the buff spell, and still did that damage to the PCs, and realize it 3 rounds into combat, I can take 20 hp off to correct that issue. But if I'm rolling in the open, I can't do that. Don't fudge to make the PCs win or lose, fudge to be fair when you goof up.
C) Don't worry so much about what is overpowered, let your players play what they want. The only time you should have an issue is if one character is way more powerful than another, then it can derail your game. If that happens, talk to the players and try to work out some adjustment that everyone agrees with. If the characters are more or less even, it won't matter if they are above average power for their level, you can just ramp up the encounters by a CR or two.
D) Work up everything ahead of time. Make copious notes, and don't be afraid to look at the notes during the game. It's perfectly fine to stop the game for a few minutes while you check the notes. Work up your treasures ahead of time if you can, and don't worry if they miss some, you can add it in later if they miss it. Keep a notebook, and write down your NPC names as you need them, if they turn popular, have them become recurring npcs.
| magnuskn |
magnuskn wrote:There is a recent FAQ entry by Sean K. Reynolds which says that the crafting feat is really only meant to benefit the crafter, but I find that one difficult to implement.Link please?
PC Wealth By Level (page 399): If a PC has an item crafting feat, does a crafted item count as its Price or its Cost?
It counts as the item's Cost, not the Price. This comes into play in two ways.
If you're equipping a higher-level PC, you have to count crafted items at their Cost. Otherwise the character isn't getting any benefit for having the feat. Of course, the GM is free to set limits in equipping the character, such as "no more than 40% of your wealth can be used for armor" (instead of the "balanced approach" described on page 400 where the PC should spend no more than 25% on armor).
If you're looking at the party's overall wealth by level, you have to count crafted items at their Cost. Otherwise, if you counted crafted items at their Price, the crafting character would look like she had more wealth than appropriate for her level, and the GM would have to to bring this closer to the target gear value by reducing future treasure for that character, which means eventually that character has the same gear value as a non-crafting character--in effect neutralizing any advantage of having that feat at all.
—Sean K Reynolds, 01/14/12
| Illydth |
As others have said, congratulations on your journey into DMing.
A couple points of advice I like to give first time DMs. Please keep these in mind, I spent years having to learn them the hard way.
(1)
It's very easy to get into the mindset that the DM at the table is the "Bad Guy" and the Players are the "Good Guys" and that to make a proper role play session it must be the DM vs. the Players. It is easy as a DM to get too invested in your Uber Bad Guy and / or your encounter that you saw being much tougher / easier than it was supposed to be.
You are NOT the PC's adversary, the PC's are not your enemy. You are the narrator, the story teller, the outside observer of the story. NEVER let your enjoyment get in the way of the PC's enjoyment. If something NEEDS to happen a certain way in the campaign, make it happen that way but make sure the party/PC's understand that this is a pre-conceived event before they put time and effort into doing things their own way...and try to limit these kinds of things in your campaign. Remember, if your big bad guy ends up dead at the PC's feet 20 minutes into the campaign...no one ever works alone. :)
(2)
Things will happen, PC's will get brilliant ideas you never thought of, they will roll natural 20's or natural 1's when you don't want that to happen. Roll with the punches. Sometimes a story goes an entirely different direction from where you want it to go or even think it will go. If you are flexible and experienced enough to roll with it, roll with it, see where it leads. If you start venturing into uncharted territory or start getting out of your comfort level to being able to provide an enjoyable play session for your PC's, stop the game and discuss with them why the action they're requesting to do breaks the campaign. Apologize and then deny the action on the basis that it breaks the fun for everyone.
But try to roll with it, you never know where a campaign can turn out with a few throws of the die. :)
(3)
Lastly, keep in mind why you are all sitting down at the table (or the virtual table) together. Fun. Make sure you are all having fun, that means the DM as well. If something in the campaign makes you or another player uncomfortable, that isn't fun...fix it...but ALWAYS work with your players to do so. Even the most blood thirsty, PKilling party doesn't want to see one of their guys sitting at the table with nothing to do looking pissed and sulky and saying "I really hate this game, lets stop playing."
Now, from more specific examples of things you might want to discuss / cover with the party (depending on what applies of course).
1) Player Death. It's been stated over and over in the thread so I won't repeat the great advice that's been given.
2) Campaign Source Materials: Looks like you're relying upon the PFSRD for the majority of your source material. No problem with this, but keep in mind that the PFSRD has A LOT of rules and alternate rules and materials for Pathfinder. As a newer DM you might consider cutting out some of the rules sets. Familiarize yourself with what books are out there and up front discuss limitations with your players on what books are and aren't legal in the campaign. I find it easier, especially with Newer DMs, to stay as close to the core rules as possible without impacting the enjoyment of the game. You might consider requiring characters to start with core races and classes and allow branching into additional books at higher levels through multi-classing options. Can they buy an item with their starting gold from the advanced equipment books? It's a good thing to discuss.
3) The Exotic vs. The Mundane. Another good topic for quick discussion (this one won't take long) is whether your campaign supports the more exotic of weaponry. When one of your PC's opts to specialize in a great two handed elven war blade, does your campaign have the capability of keeping that blade on track or do you KNOW he's going to be down to wielding a bastard sword at some point but without all his proficiencies and specializations? Players never have to worry about short swords, daggers and long-swords, any pre-written module has magical specimens of those in bulk. But when the player starts specializing in the man-catcher, the halberd, the two handed elven blade or the katana, are those weapons really going to be available in your campaign in enough frequency to make those choices be good choices?
4) Rolls - Again, covered. Open or Closed. I like Open PC rolls and closed DM rolls, but never hesitate when you get on a "bad streak" against the PC's to make sure to show a few rolls just so they know you're not out to get them.
5) Magic Item "Management" - I find this is more and more important every game I run. Players now seem to think that they can stop at a local "magi-mart" and buy up what they want with their gobs of gold. And in your campaign, maybe they can! Or maybe not. Either way, cover what your expectations of magic item purchase and creation will be. Blindsiding players who are secretly saving up for a Vorpal Long Sword and saying "oh you can't buy that" when they have gathered their 15M Gold Coins is not going to make anyone happy.
On another note: Encourage your players to keep you up to date on what they want from an equipment and magic item perspective. Keeping a copy of each player's character sheet so you can, at a glance, see what weapons, armor and items they're carrying allows you to "fill in the gaps" secretly in a "not so random" treasure distribution. See that the PC's are getting low on healing potions and they have no clerics or druids among them? Sounds like a great time for the next encounter to be with some kind of group that has an ad-hoc alchemist or shaymin with the with a small stash of healing potions on hand.
6) Treasure Distribution Arguments - Here's one I ALWAYS find it better to discuss up front...what do the PC's want to do about a treasure distribution policy? I find in all of my groups there's usually one who's quicker than most to step forward and say "That fits my character, I'll take it"...it's not bad play nor greed on the player's part, it's just a natural tendency to step up and say "I like that". You'll get loot distribution arguments at your table, it will happen eventually. Having some kind of early discussion you can fall back on is always a benefit.
7) Finally if you have inexcusable things you do not want to see at your table (pkilling, evil acts, torture, sexual encounters, whatever) make sure those are brought up early and are well understood. There are many topics that might make your group somewhat uncomfortable (sex in a campaign is always good for an awkward evening), and there are more reasons for some of this to come up "out of the blue" than you might think...imagine your party being captured by rogue bandits with a pretty little 18 charisma young female sorceress in the party...or the party gets captured by the BBEG and locked in a cell...why WOULDN'T they be tortured for information or just the hell of it? If things like this make people nervous or uncomfortable, you need to know that up front. Perhaps all the bandits in your world are honerable...or maybe they're all just led by female bandits who won't put up with crap like that!
DM Note: On the topic of sex for a second, take a piece of advice if you will and leave it out of your campaign...or at least plan to gloss over it. Here's the thing, unless you're a professional pornography / romance novelist, you likely can't do ANY justice to a good sex scene. It really is a lot more difficult than it looks or sounds to describe a good roll in the sack without it just becoming droll and idiotic. If you are? Go for it. I'm sure your players will...um...enjoy the descriptions. Otherwise, it just makes for a REALLY awkward part of the campaign. Not to say sexual relations can't be a part of the campaign or even a method for discovering information (it's amazing what "ladies of the night" know), but if you're planning on RPing a sexual event, drop the idea, gloss over it and move on. Everyone (including you) will thank you.
Now for some quick house rules:
* I'm a huge fan of the "nothing below 8" statistic. I've had several players in my time that wanted to play a complete idiot and they do nothing but ruin the campaign with "clown tactics". Remember, it really is about enjoyment, and a character that can barely remember to BREATHE really can't take part in figuring out the mysteries of the campaign with the other players. If this interferes with a character concept based upon your point buy system, talk with the player and see if there's a way to make the concept work...or perhaps you want to give a stat boost to everyone beyond the point buy.
* Starting Hitpoints are ALWAYS MAXED. Level 1 characters have a hard enough time with life. I also like to use the "reroll 1's" rule for at least the first 5 levels...generally I tend to use this method for all levels, but at least the first 5. A warrior with 15 - 20 hit points at level 5 is a waste of space to a party.
* The "What makes sense" rule. Many DMs might argue with me on this one, but I have a rule I call the "what makes sense" rule. There are situations that will come up where the books just don't cover the details or where the situation simply doesn't make sense for answer the book is giving you. In these cases I will call on the "What makes sense" rule. Where I as a DM can't stomach the logic behind something happening due to the complication of various rules together (or the lack of them), I will simply throw out the rulebook and implement what I believe makes the most realism sense.
The PFRPG rules are typically robust enough that most situations can be run within the rules and all is just fine, but there are times where a player wants to do something that just isn't properly covered. In these cases the players and I will discuss the situation and come up with a conclusion on what we believe would actually happen in a situation such as this. That is the rule we will continue to follow should the need arise in the future.
I know this is long, and I apologize for it, but mostly the main rules for being a DM are:
Communicate with your Players.
Have fun.
Make sure your players are having fun.
The rest comes naturally.
| Illydth |
(I'll be quicker with this one, I promise)
How to get the party together:
I've ALWAYS found that having the party come together naturally is a much better way to begin a game than a forced merging of souls so to speak. The "you all know each other" line only goes so far when the players are writing their own backgrounds.
My preferred method of handling character party grouping is to create an event at the beginning of the campaign that gives all of the party members the same goal. Whether they know each other or not will be immaterial at the end of the hook. The suggestion of the goblins invading the bar is a fine way to do it, though why would every one of the PC's be in the bar all at the same time? This might work for a party of 3, but by 7 it's getting a bit unbelievable.
However, if you start by creating a reason for the members of the party all being in the same town (say the high priest is visiting the town and people from all over are storming the town for his mass blessing, which is said to bring good luck for a week), and then a reason for them all to be in the same bar at the same time (as a precursor to the High Priest's mass tomorrow morning, Felix the bard, the most renowned bard in all the surrounding lands, is giving a special performance in the Drunken Dwarf, the largest tavern and inn in town...and you've all gotten lucky enough to have gotten tickets), NOW you have a believable reason, when the goblins attack and everyone else flees the scene but the 6 of you, why you should all join up...especially if after mopping the floor with the goblins someone realizes that the attack may have been a diversion and the real target may be the High Priest himself....(the adventure hook has been dropped...now the players rescue the high priest who then provides them the real details on how the campaign officially starts.)
The other way I do this is once I have a "campaign area" (world) setup, I will tend to play the "descendants" card or the "call to action" card and have all the players start from the same location...(The local town magistrate has put out a call to all able bodied men and women of age 15 to 35 to assist the militia in turning back the ongoing orc incursion into the northern reaches of the province. All men and women of eligible age must report to the town hall by sun up on the 15th day of the month of mede or they will be arrested and thrown in jail.)
(NOTE: Whether all of the PC's meet in Jail or at the Town Hall in this scenario can actually bring a pretty creative twist to the start of the adventure, depending upon what the campaign is about...it may just be that the town hall gets overrun and they end up as the only able bodied men and women left...)
Come up with something creative, work harder than the standard "So you all meet in a bar...", unless that's really what your players want.
| NewDM |
Also- what books do you want to allow? I suggest Core & APG to start, maybe the three ultimate books. There are some weird feats and stuff in some of the campaign guides and some stuff is actually 3.5. Summoner is pretty nasty for a DM, and Synthesist & Master Summoner are even worse.
You can stop min-maxing by saying “You get no points for choosing a stat below 10”.
I suggest:
No Evils, and no CN that act CE.
Yeah, I agree with pretty much everyone else and am only going to allow core classes. No gunslingers/summoners/etc.
What's wrong with CN characters that sometimes act a bit evil? I'm wary of putting too many limits up-front on what players cannot do, and saying "No CN that acts evil!" may sound a bit limiting.
| NewDM |
Ugh man to the OP I like what you're saying and I like your approach but I can't help but feel that you are biting off way more than you can chew here.Have you thought about running a single-session published encounter or two, or an Adventure Path before you create something yourself?
Who said I was creating something myself? I'll first run a published encounter or adventure path. But I'm not sure which one yet...