Grab and Constrict, APG vs Bestiary 2

[Raviel_Incarnate]

The Universal rules from the Bestiary 2 say that Grab can affect creatures up to the size of the Grabber, but the Advanced Player's guide (eidolons) say that the Grab evolution can only Grab things up to a size smaller than the eidolon.

Similarly, in the Universal rules, Grab and Constrict stack to deal damage for each during each successful grapple check, but it says nothing about that in the APG, specifically in the Grab evolution paragraph.

Which is right? The APG, or the Universal rules?

[Cheapy]

Eidolons use the evolutions rules, even if they differ from the UMR.

[Raviel_Incarnate]

Ok, then would the Final Embrace tree work on evolutioned Grab and Constrict?

[Raviel_Incarnate]

And along that, an eidolon with Final Embrace gains the UMR defined abilities Grab and Constrict... does that mean from then on it can use those instead of its own?

[Dennis Baker]

Not sure what you mean by grab and constrict stack to deal damage.

If a creature has both:

Scores a normal hit in combat

Which triggers grab -> the creature makes a grapple check and if it's successful the victim is grappled

The successful grapple check triggers constriction damage.

There is no damage associated with grab itself, many creatures have grab without constrict and they don't deal damage on grab.

[Raviel_Incarnate]

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/universalMonsterRules.html#_gra b

But... in the Grab section of the PRD it says that on successive rounds it deals both grab damage and constrict damage...

Yes, the initial check only does constrict, but afterwards, it gets both, doesn't it?

[Raviel_Incarnate]

"A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well"

Maybe it's worded weird, but it says that it deals "constriction damage as well"

[Skylancer4]

'Constriction damage as well (as starting/maintaining the grapple/hold).'

[Dennis Baker]

There is no damage associated with Grab. Grab doesn't happen on successive rounds, once a creature is grappled you make grapple checks to continue grappling it. When you make a grapple check to maintain a grapple, you can do a variety of things, one of them is "inflict damage". In that case you would deal damage twice, normal grapple damage and the constrict damage (which is usually the same but sometimes it's weird).

Instead of damaging a creature on a successful grapple check, you can move a creature or pin it, neither of those actions deal damage, but the constrict damage kicks in if you do them.

Round 1:
a hit in melee triggers -> Grab (grapple check) -> Successful grapple check triggers constrict

Round 2 and successive rounds:
Standard action grapple check to maintain the grapple, if it's successful deal constrict damage
- AND you can do one of the following -

Deal additional damage (your normal unarmed strike or a light or natural weapon)

Move the grappled creature half your speed

Pin the grappled creature

Grab itself just gives you the ability to initiate a grapple as a free action on a hit.