Crafting and Illusions


Rules Questions


Hi there.

I have a couple questions.

1) can someone break down the Crafting DC for a level 3 Oracle to make bracers of armor+1? I just don't have a strong grasp on crafting in general.

2) Suppose a wizard casts silent image. An enemy sees and it and believes it. Wizard make it run into teh trees beyond his sight.

What happens to the image once its out of his line of sight?
Does the enemy get will saves every round (I'm imagining that this image is running through trees since the wizard can't see the trees)?
Can he make it go up a tree?
Would the enemy get a will save again when it tries to do something that it knows is impossible?

Shadow Lodge

1) The item has CL 7 and has two prerequisites: Mage Armour, and caster level 2. You have caster level 2. If you have the spell Mage Armour (either personally or on a scroll or through an ally) you have to make a single Spellcraft check at DC 12 = 5 + CL 7. If you do not have the spell Mage Armour your check is DC 17 = 5 + CL 7 + 5 for one missing prerequisite. By RAW you can take 10 on these checks, but some GMs house-rule that you cannot.

2) First, you can only move the image within an area of four 10ft-cubes plus one cube per level. So if it goes further into the trees than that it will wink out - that's probably no more than 1-3 rounds of "running."

I think you can maintain concentration on the image when it's out of line of sight, but you won't be able to weave it properly through the trees because you can't see where the image would need to dodge. So that's suspicious.

The enemy gets will saves every time he "interacts with" the illusion. What that means is a bit hazy, but shooting a ranged weapon or casting a spell at it definitely qualifies, and shouting after it might. Just chasing after it probably wouldn't give a save - a good rule of thumb is that the character has to use some sort of move or standard action directed at the illusion. However, if it's out of the wizard's line of sight and the wizard sends it through a tree, the enemy definitely gets a save and might automatically disbelieve the illusion if your GM believes that it constitutes "definitive proof" that the illusion isn't real. At best your enemy will believe it's a ghost or other incorporeal creature. The enemy might also automatically disbelieve the illusion if he "hits" it with an attack and the attack passes through.

The wizard can make it go up a tree.


Weirdo, the item would have at most caster level 3 since the creator has CL3 (The CLs in the PRD are just the usual caster levels items are created at or in other words the CLs most likely to be found as part of randomly generated loot)

In this case the CL only has an impact on how hard it is to dispel the item, so no other statistics need to be adjusted.

Therefore the DC is 8 or 13 respectively (depending on whether or not you have mage armor) or 7/12 if you decide to instead create the bracers at CL2 (you can always voluntarily lower your CL, but in this case I'd say not below minimum requirement)

Shadow Lodge

You can create an item with a higher caster level than your own. You are correct that the oracle has the option to lower the caster level, but the 3rd level oracle can also create an item at caster level 7 and personally I recommend doing that if possible rather than making adjustments because making crafted items at non-typical CLs can be confusing if someone ever tries to dispel the item - you have to keep track of that individual item's CL rather than just looking it up in the book.

There are also a few items that don't have as obvious a "minimum caster level" to lower to, and discussions on this board about the effects of raising item CL beyond yours in order to resist Dispel Magic (which some argue is free according to the current system, as long as you have a high enough Spellcraft). That's a can of worms I don't want opened. It's much easier to just use the typical item CL unless there's a strong reason not to.

Relevant FAQ:

FAQ wrote:

Q: I looked over the magic item crafting rules and was unable to find an explicit statement on this question: Does creating a magic item require the creator to be of the same or higher caster level of the item itself? This doesn't seem to square with the CLs listed for specific magic items; for instance, a Belt of Giant Strength +2 has CL 8th, but the only spell required in its creation, bull's strength, has a minimum caster level of 3. Am I missing anything here?

A: (Official FAQ 8/18/2010) Though the listed Caster Level for a pearl of power is 17th, that caster level is not part of the Requirements listing for that item. Therefore, the only caster level requirement for a pearl of power is the character has to be able to cast spells of the desired level. However, it makes sense that the minimum caster level of the pearl is the minimum caster level necessary to cast spells of that level--it would be strange for a 2nd-level pearl to be CL 1st. For example, a 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item can create a 1st-level pearl, with a minimum caster level of 1. He can set the caster level to whatever he wants (assuming he can meet the crafting DC), though the pearl's caster level has no effect on its powers (other than its ability to resist dispel magic). If he wants to make a 2nd-level pearl, the caster level has to be at least 3, as wizards can't cast 2nd-level spells until they reach character level 3. He can even try to make a 3rd-level pearl, though the minimum caster level is 5, and he adds +5 to the DC because he doesn't meet the "able to cast 3rd-level spells" requirement.

And one "strong reason not to use typical CL" would be a 3rd level wizard wanting to make a 1st level pearl of power at a CL of less than 17 (as required for 9th level spells/pearl).


I'd require somebody to spend some kind of action focusing on conversation with an illusion to get a save to disbelieve it, otherwise the system could be gamed and you could get free opportunities to disbelieve while attacking other creatures, Concentrating on spells ... or even just stacking on a bonus save if a character has already attacked an illusion and they're pretty sure it's fake but they keep failing.

Then I imagine a group of PCs in a room mixed with hostile creatures and illusions, and I imagine each PC talking to every hostile creature on his turn, angling for a free Disbelief save against every illusory enemy in the room. Nope. I'd demand more scrutiny than that.

Shadow Lodge

Yeah, for 3E Wizards suggested that you should spend at least a move action to "study" an illusion for a save. So you could try to spot the illusions in a room by giving a speech, but you'd need to spend your full round talking and you'd only be able to watch at most two of the "creatures" in the room closely enough for your save. Or you could stab something and hope for the best.


Dont you only get one save, unless something happens to cause another? So the I don't think it's real: stab; I don't think it's real: stab; spam, can't be done?

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