Taking a look at Ezren's iconic and the rules it seem too me that a wizard carries too much equipment.
I mean this: On RL I usually carry my laptop on its case and if I spend several hours doing that I will feel tired.
However Ezren carries a light crossbow that preatty much weight just as a laptop and also carries a spell pouch, expensive components, bolts, scrolls and maybe even his spellbook among other things.
Wizards are usually not that strong and also using armor disrupt their spell casting. So I wonder how it is possible that a wizard carries so many items and function properly?
There is any recommendation about items to make a wizard look more light yet functional with the current rules?
Maybe on future version of the rules the spell components and lighter weapons like weapons like wands could be made in such way that a wizard can travel lighter.
Just think of this: when you see of a wizard on most movies they usually don't carry much. Maybe a staff, a wand and sometimes a spellbook. However fighter on the other do carry a lot with them.
Mule back chords.
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Backpack and quiver actually designed to distribute a load properly?
I used to backpack a lot. I used to carry 20 pounds of camera equipment outside of my tent, sleeping bag, food, first aid kit, tools....
And I walked all day. And I'm basically a geek.
And get rid of the crossbow -- cantrips such as Acid Splash and Ray of Frost may do less damage but make up for it by attacking touch AC and never exhausting the ammo.
That should leave the spellbook as the only bulky item that a wizard carries.
Handy Haversack?
How may times have you seen a wizard portrait using one?
That should leave the spellbook as the only bulky item that a wizard carries.
I guess that on 1 day jobs like many PFS scenarios it can be left behind at a "safe" place.
The last wizard I played took great pride in carrying nothing beyond a few wands, a spell component pouch and some gold, in addition to his magic slot items. At least visually. At one point he had some robe that acted like a bag of holding with pockets that held huge amounts of stuff.
But even at low levels he carried as little as possible.
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They use magic.
Mule back chords.
Is that a bardic ability?
But seriously, even tho they often have a low strength, they may likely be in better general shape than standard modern office employee due to a career path that involves travelling all over the place on foot, and very frequent bursts of high-impact physical activity. Carrying a well-adjusted pack with 10-15 pounds of gear in it gets to be second nature very quickly, and distributing that weight around your person in smaller amounts makes it even easier. The iconic wizard Ezren has a strength of 10 and a con of 13 - both average or better. Many point-buy characters may dump str to 7, but con is the representation of general health and endurance... and dropping a wizard's con below average is a quick recipe for getting turned into dungeon gravy.
So basically pathfinder's wizards don't get to be Gandalf looking wizards and to some extend neither does sorcerers!
artificer, I guess you didn't read my post. My wizard spent pretty much his entire campaigning career with nothing but a robe, some pouches and some wands in his pockets. Eventually he got a staff.
That's about as Gandalf as you can get.
Where did he keep all his stuff? He did lots of things, including the before mentioned robe which acted as a bag of holding, using his robe as a sleeping bag (prestidigitation is so nice), zapping little critters with ray of frost for dinner, etc.
If any class can get by with nothing but a robe and some pouches, it's the wizard.
If any class can get by with nothing but a robe and some pouches, it's the wizard.
Thanks! I got the idea!
Well, it's probably fair to point out that most wizards in literature tend to travel very light. It's sort of implied that they don't need a bunch of stuff because they are wizardly.
I never saw many pictures of Merlin with a backpack.
Honestly, I've had wizards who simply asked other party members to carry some of their stuff. They don't need much anyway, if you play them as being above petty things like needing rope, cooking utensils, blankets, first aid kits, etc.
What does a wizard actually need other than their magic doodads and spellcasting components?
Maybe some water.
And get rid of the crossbow -- cantrips such as Acid Splash and Ray of Frost may do less damage but make up for it by attacking touch AC and never exhausting the ammo.
That should leave the spellbook as the only bulky item that a wizard carries.
Youngsters today! Lazy gadabouts if you ask me! And pray tell what good are your cantrips going to do if you're silenced?
Not every wizard is going to style themselves the same way. From what I've seen in Ezren he's far more concerned with praticality than style.... or diplomacy for that matter.
That is not the problem I was trying to solve -- I was trying to help a weak wizard reduce his encumbrance. If the area he is standing in is silenced, he needs to move. If he himself is silenced, too bad for him -- hopefully the rest of the party can deal with the enemy.
In any case, only a very low level wizard would have reason to bother with a crossbow (the same one who would actually bother to cast a damaging cantrip). Eventually they fall far enough behind a full BAB class in ability to hit that the crossbow becomes pointless.
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Well, it's probably fair to point out that most wizards in literature tend to travel very light. It's sort of implied that they don't need a bunch of stuff because they are wizardly.
I never saw many pictures of Merlin with a backpack.
Honestly, I've had wizards who simply asked other party members to carry some of their stuff. They don't need much anyway, if you play them as being above petty things like needing rope, cooking utensils, blankets, first aid kits, etc.
What does a wizard actually need other than their magic doodads and spellcasting components?
Maybe some water.
Also, they dropped their STR scores so low that even if all they have is their robes, they'll slow to a crawl if those robes happen to get wet.
:P
But seriously, even tho they often have a low strength, they may likely be in better general shape than standard modern office employee due to a career path that involves travelling all over the place on foot, and very frequent bursts of high-impact physical activity. Carrying a well-adjusted pack with 10-15 pounds of gear in it gets to be second nature very quickly, and distributing that weight around your person in smaller amounts makes it even easier.
You made me think that pathfinder's wizards look is kind of assassin creed look.
in my table we discus this thing, i mean, the ranger is ok with all of his equipment because he is a dwarf (no encumbrance)
but damiel the alchemist, and ezren looks so overwhelmed with all of those tools on them.
but as a statement "pictures are not rules" so its fine!!
for the issue with the weight of your laptop and ezren crossbow...
i dont know how bulky you are, but ezren looks like he can handle a lot of weight, and he is from a some kind of medieval world, so in the abilities, if were applied at our world as in d20 i guess str 20 will be +1, and in medieval str 20 would be +5
reminds me a history channel when a cientist try to emulate some nordic rituals with a sword... the nordics were so bulky and high str, and the scientist looks like famelic, so, in his intent he can´t realize the ritual because he needs a lot of str, and says the ritual was a fake...
another v show, where suits up with full plates to an entite team of footbal, and make them run with them, and some steps they was so tired... in the middle age, the wars was fight with soldiers running into full plates.... so...
Psh, you wizards are lazy. We fighters would carry rope, a climbing kits, a sword, a crossbow, a sleeping roll, cookware, armor, torches, a hula hoop, and a secondary weapon! And we liked it!
In all seriousness, Ezren is just a practical guy. That's just how he is. He's old and very down to earth. He's less mystical and mysterious than our man Gandalf. If you want him to be extra light, consider eschew materials. Ditch the crossbow, too. Then, he'll just have a few things stashed in his robe and he'll be good to go.
Sorry, unlike Gandalf and Merlin not every wizard in pathfinder gets to be an immortal demigod. They have to make due with merely nearly infinite cosmic power.
For a better literary example of a pathfinder wizard consider the magic of recluse series. That's a nice example of pathfinder level wizards.
"Dangerous" isn't the same as "Uncivilized" -- what we are talking about are wizards in uncivilized areas, not Dresden being in the hood with a walmart less than 15 minutes away and a convenience store on every corner.
Heh. How would a wizard travel light in the Pathfinder world?
Let's examine this.
First of all, what does a person NEED when they are traveling long distances away from the comforts of home?
Food, shelter, water, fire.
Everything else is optional.
Water's a pretty big deal because you need quite a bit of it. Well, comparatively anyway. But you only actually need a few gallons a day even in the most hostile extremes.
Food is much more compact than water, but if you're hiking for several days, it adds up.
Shelter... that's the biggie. Unless you want to sleep out in the rain, you need something to sleep under if it happens to rain. And you need something to stay warm.
So if a wizard can deal with food, shelter and water, without carrying a backpack full of stuff, then it's quite reasonable to assume that the wizard can walk around with nothing visible but a robe, hat and staff.
So let's look at water. Wizards get a cantrip called "drench". Drench provides enough water to "soak" the wizard. It provides enough water to extinguish fires. That's a lot of water. There's nothing to indicate that the water vanishes either, it seems to hang around. So water is no problem for a wizard, so long as he's willing to deal with a little rain while he collects it in a container.
Now food. Wizards are able to cast a variety of lethal cantrips an unlimited number of times per day. If they are hiking in any location that has prey animals, they will eventually hit one with acid splash, ray of frost, jolt, or whatever. Eventually they will roll a 20 and nail one. Once one is nailed, it's just a matter of dressing and cooking it. Prestidigitation will make it taste as nice as the wizard likes. Underground in dungeons? Rat infested places. Rat's are not really that much different than squirrels or rabbits. And again, prestidigitation to the rescue. Of course the wizard can carry some choice delicacies in a small pouch if he wants to.
And fire. Seriously? A bit of wood and spark.
Now the biggie. Shelter. What does a wizard need for shelter while traveling? At bare minimum the wizard will need some means to protect themselves from rain. That's easy enough to do with a ten foot square piece of canvas, a bit of twine and a couple of sticks. Like a quarterstaff split down the middle held together with twine for example.
Wizard hikes all day, casting drench as needed to collect water. His hat and robe keep him dry under the downpour and direct the water into his waterskin. As they go if he sees any small game, ray of frost until he nails one. Then he guts and skins it, so he needs a small knife. Now he's got food. A bit of "knowledge nature" and he can even find edible plants on the way.
At the end of the day he gathers up some twigs and uses "spark" to start a fire. He cooks his meat, drinks his water and sets up camp. His canvas sheet is folded into a 2.5' square and slipped into a special pocket in his robe. He pulls that out, separates his staff into two pieces and uses the twine to create a small pup tent. He uses his robe for a sleeping blanket/bag.
That's what a wizard can do at level 1 using nothing but cantrips.
Oh, and if the wizard is traveling with a party?
"Hey, big fighter dude... I notice you've got several gallons of water hanging on your backpack. Pretty good idea, but that's a lot of weight. How about I provide you with all the water you need every day and in return you carry ten pounds of stuff for me? Sound like a deal? Good."
It's easier than that.
1)ring of sustenance. You could hunt your own food and water, but this is relatively cheap and has the added bonus of letting you sleep less.
2) camping spell. Rope trick, tiny hut, secure shelter just to name a few. At lower levels some of them are less useful because of short duration. However the extend spell can ho with that. Around 5th level you're fine. Earlier if you have a ring of sustenance.
3) prestidigitation. Insta-bath.
Anything beyond that is really just bonus.
Tiny, I wanted to be able to do it at level 1, not relying on anything but the wizard's most fundamental basic abilities and not sacrificing spell slots potentially needed for random encounters.
Sure, it gets easier, better and more comfortable as the wizard gets more powerful, eventually to the point he can sleep in a mansion with servants and 24 course meals every night.
But he can do it the day he pops out of wizard school if he wants. Without spending a copper piece. That was my point.
I think I'm missing something fundamental about this whole thread. What's the difference between a wizard carrying stuff around and a cavalier or barbarian or anybody? The encumbrance rules are universally applied across all classes. Can't any character be carrying too much or too little equipment? Is this just about satisfying generic character expectations?
Handy Haversack?How may times have you seen a wizard portrait using one?
Handy Haversacks are SUPPOSED to look like a typical bag. They're not made of any special material, they're not diamond-encrusted, they don't glow (Detect Magic not withstanding). It's just a normal looking bag that just happens to have a literal pocket dimension inside it. For all you know, EVERY bag worn by an Iconic could be a Handy Haversack.
LazarX, I grew up poor. My family hunted to eat. Every kid in the family knew how to dress small game. It was required. I knew how to clean, dress and cook a rabbit by age 10.
You can try to argue all you want about "drench". The spell description describes it as a "downpour" that "soaks" the wizard. It's water. And if the wizard wants to carry an extra skin with wine, that's fine, it's not going to be a backpack full of stuff, it's going to be a wineskin hanging on his belt.
Your novice wizard may be so incompetent that he can't set up a pup tent. My wizards generally have an intelligence beyond low grade moron.
I didn't catch the level 1 part. In that case you're basically stuck with cantrips. Frankly if I'm a wizard I'm not going anywhere dangerous alone until at least 3rd level.
Apparantly there are folks who are really upset at Ezren the iconic Wizard because he carries far more gear... a lot of it mundane when compared to Gandalf.
There's nothing wrong with a wizard that packs a load either. It's all flavor. Carrying a bunch of stuff will free up some cantrip slots and might provide a few more comforts.
You know, if you need that stuff.
LazarX, I think you seriously overestimate the difficulty of learning some basic camping skills.
Seriously dude, how hard to you think cleaning a rabbit is? Do you think it would take you more than a day to learn how to do it? Do they offer "rabbit cleaning 101" courses in college? Do you think putting rabbit meat on a stick and holding it in a fire requires years of cooking training?
You can civilly disagree with the spell description of "drench" all you want. It is what it is. Your desire to redefine it just for the purpose of scoring a point in this debate is your deal, not mine.
A pup tent is nothing more than a sheet of fabric, a couple of sticks and some twine LazarX. People used pup tents for thousands of years before "manufacturers" started selling them. And a "pup tent" is a huge step up from the far more simple "lean to" which is just tying fabric or leaning something flat against a wall or tree trunk.
Seriously dude, you really think making shelter is that hard? Ever watch "Survivorman?" He can make shelter out of an old child car seat in a pinch.
I'd assess that most wizards are going to be trained near urban areas. With just a few apprentice with hermit thing. Though there are exceptions, survival isn't a wizard skill with good reason.
I didn't catch the level 1 part. In that case you're basically stuck with cantrips. Frankly if I'm a wizard I'm not going anywhere dangerous alone until at least 3rd level.Then I guess you're stuck at (borrowing AD+D's level title) being a first level Prestidigitator all your life. :) That might explain why Ezren was such an old man at first level. Although actually that's probably more an homage to what the starting age for first level wizards used to be back in the old days.
Just means you need a ranger hiking buddy.
I'd assess that most wizards are going to be trained near urban areas. With just a few apprentice with hermit thing. Though there are exceptions, survival isn't a wizard skill with good reason.
Survival isn't a wizard class skill, but any wizard can put a point into survival, and wizards have enough intelligence to have skill points to spare. A wizard who is going to want to survive on his own without carrying a huge backpack is going to be one that would have a skill point, at least, in survival.
If a wizard wants to travel light, they can do so. That's my only point. There is no reason to assume that a wizard has to carry a load. They don't. They can if they want to. But if they don't want to, they don't have to.
Forget using a cantrip to kill a rabbit, what about finding the rabbit? It take significant skill (survival, knowledge(nature), stealth) and time to track an animal that is suitable for human consumption. Then you have to kill it.
After it's dead you need at least a knife to dress it, as well as the aforementioned Survival skill to avoid giving everyone food poisoning from improper handling.
On top of all that, a squirrel will barely be enough food for one sitting, and a rabbit one day if you're lucky. Put on top of that fact that you've been hiking for 8 hours and your caloric requirements are significantly higher than a modern office worker's 2000 calories a day.
Forget using a cantrip to kill a rabbit, what about finding the rabbit? It take significant skill (survival, knowledge(nature), stealth) and time to track an animal that is suitable for human consumption. Then you have to kill it.
After it's dead you need at least a knife to dress it, as well as the aforementioned Survival skill to avoid giving everyone food poisoning from improper handling.On top of all that, a squirrel will barely be enough food for one sitting, and a rabbit one day if you're lucky. Put on top of that fact that you've been hiking for 8 hours and your caloric requirements are significantly higher than a modern office worker's 2000 calories a day.
Geezus, are you guys serious? Have you actually gone for long hikes in the woods? I LIVE in the woods. I've got squirrels and rabbits frolicking in my front friggin' yard all day. I've hit squirrels with ROCKS. And I'm not Randy Johnson. Rabbits are a friggin yard-destroying nuisance. And that's not counting the jays, starlings, pigeons, and whatnot that roost in my trees.
You're talking about a world that is mostly wilderness, where animals have not yet learned to fear humans with GUNS.
Seriously, I'm done with this. People will argue anything, especially things they apparently know very little about.
I'd assess that most wizards are going to be trained near urban areas. With just a few apprentice with hermit thing. Though there are exceptions, survival isn't a wizard skill with good reason.Survival isn't a wizard class skill, but any wizard can put a point into survival, and wizards have enough intelligence to have skill points to spare. A wizard who is going to want to survive on his own without carrying a huge backpack is going to be one that would have a skill point, at least, in survival.
If a wizard wants to travel light, they can do so. That's my only point. There is no reason to assume that a wizard has to carry a load. They don't. They can if they want to. But if they don't want to, they don't have to.
Calm down now.
I'm not arguing that point. Sure wizards can take points in survival and its probably not that uncommon.I just meant to say that most wizards are probably urban and would never learn wilderness lore. Then again if they planned to wander in the wilderness at level one they might just pick up a book on it.
Im not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that wandering in the woods far from civilization alone is probably not a popular wizard past time. That's all.