New FAQ clarified that Crane Wing/Snake Fang aren't compatible and that's really the only reason I wanted it.
I don't need super unhittable AC anyway, that's boring. At 21 I still have more AC than anybody else in the party if I recall and I don't want to make everybody feel sad by pumping myself up to like 27-28 or whatever.
How do they not work? You negate and riposte one attack with crane, and then negate and riposte one attack with snake (as long as you have an AoO available)....
How do they not work? You negate and riposte one attack with crane, and then negate and riposte one attack with snake (as long as you have an AoO available)....
Snake FANG I said. As in Crane Wing's deflection doesn't proc Snake Fang's counterattack.
So as I don't want to boost my AC much higher really, and all this would do is basically boost MY AC...
Though I guess (duh) if there's nothing else good I can take it and then not use it unless I'm in a pinch.
If I go up to Monk 8, would it be better to just stick with Monk or go Brawler the rest of the way?
I was thinking Monk 16/Brawler 4 at max (taking Brawler 4 at 12, after I hit Monk 8) but I'm open to suggestions.
And if I were to go with Crane I'd need to snag Dodge at first instead of Toughness.
Well you never know when you need to deflect a crit... It's worth more than toughness in my book.
True enough, I suppose, though to deflect a crit I'd also already have to be using the Style and be fighting defensively.
Using the style yes, fighting defensively not really. While in crane style you lessen penalties for fighting defensively, but you don't HAVE to fight defensively to be in crane style.
But you DO have to be fighting defensively (or using total defense) to use Crane Wing.
I suppose so, yes... Sorry, I thought I was on to something there.
So, is Boar at all useful? Or is my best bet just to snag Crane and keep it in my pocket for when something really nasty comes along?
Or hell, I've been thinking that maybe since I just want to be a brawler (fighting style wise) I could do something like Monk 4/Brawler X instead? Seems like it'd be about the same flavor-wise AND fighting style wise (keeping both Snake and Dragon Styles), except I'd wear a Breastplate or summat instead of all this other stuff.
Would a Mithral Breastplate count as Light Armor for the purposes of applying the Brawler property?
All this indecision a mere two days before the character comes back in. =/
I just really want to get it right this time.
Edit: Eh, scratch that last bit. Wearing armor would come close to defeating the spirit of the concept. It's pretty good enough as-is.
Edit 2: Derp. I got Sun Xiao's numbers a bit wrong. I was applying the -3/+6 variant of Power Attack but I forgot I don't get that until next level.
Boar seemed cool to me when I saw 2d6 bleed damage on the start of the chain, but apparently someone just chose their words poorly and it's not really supposed to be bleed damage (as the third feat gives 1d6 bleed). I guess Boar Ferocity isn't bad though as you can get a free action Intimidate check if you hit with two unarmed strikes in a round. I think the main issue with Boar is that there are just always better options.
I guess the issue I'm running into is that I really don't give a damn about Styles other than Dragon and Snake really. Panther was a neat idea but who knows if my GM would get peeved eventually and then go "Nope, they don't AoO you any more".
How badly would my AC suffer if I rearranged and went unarmored Brawler, something like Sacred Mountain MoMS 4/Brawler 5 and then Brawler from then on? I'd still have the Styles I wanted, 1d8 damage a punch isn't really bad, and I could free up an extra 13k for other stuff to buy as well (an upgrade for the AoMF?)
Plus I could snag Weapon Specialization with Brawler 4.
Or, less likely, Monk 4/Brawler 4/Something else.
Bonus for Monk 4/Brawler 5 is that my math actually WOULDN'T be messed up as I would actually have +8 BaB at that point.
Or am I overcomplicating things second/third/fourth guessing myself all the time? Rey isn't a dick so he PROBABLY wouldn't do that, in which case Panther would be both very fun and pretty effective, and nobody else is uber-optimized anyway so I don't have to be Superman to compete.
Unfortunately, mithril b-plate can't recieve brawling. I'm not sure about an armored kilt or a light armor coupled with an armored kilt. If it Homebrew, ask the DM if mithril dastana and cha har-aina are allowed from oreintal adventures. Fully specked it gives you 21 AC (with mithril chain shirt) vs a 14 for +5 full plate, and it has an ACP of 0, 5% spell failure, and 6 max dex. But it costs 3 times more than the full plate as a balance.
How useful is the Monk Robe in the long run?
From what I'm seeing it gives me, in effect, an extra damage on average and a single extra AC. I would have roughly 21k gold remaining without it, enough to buy either an upgrade for my AoMF or my Str belt (thus upgrading my attack and damage by 1) and still have enough left over (about 9k) to snag an upgrade for my Ring of Protection or actually even my Bracers since +4 is only 16k and I've put 9k down on it already, so in the long run all I'm getting from the Monk's Robe that these things can't give me is +1 to Stunning Fist DC (and I hardly use Stunning Fist).
Is this correct?
I also got to thinking about the Hamatula Feat line again and how cool they sound. With all the discouraging words about Panther flying around in places I'm a bit dis-enamored with that currently, so which of these arrangements/builds sounds better?
Monk 6/Brawler 3
1.) Power Attack
1.) Toughness/Improved Grapple
1.) Combat Reflexes
2.)Furious Focus
3.) Dragon Style
3.) Dragon Ferocity
4.) Weapon Focus
5.) Snake Style
6.) Snake Fang
7.) Panther Style/Combat Style Master
9.) Combat Style Master/Hamatula Strike
Monk Bonus: Panther Claw/Panther Style
(Monk 7) 11.) Greater Grapple
The ones behind the slash are secondary arrangements.
Monk 5/Brawler 4
Brawler 1.) Power Attack
Human 1.) Toughness/Improved Grapple
1.) Combat Reflexes
Brawler 2.)Furious Focus
Monk 3.) Dragon Style
Monk Bonus 3.) Dragon Ferocity
Brawler 4.) Weapon Focus
Brawler 5.) Snake Style
Monk/Bonus 6.) Snake Fang
Monk 7.) Greater Grapple
Monk 8.) Combat Style Master
Monk 9.)Hamatula Strike
Monk 11.) Hamatula Grasp
Monk Bonus: Panther Style
Or is it a trap, this late-ish in the game?
I think the effectiveness of Hamatula really depends on how often you fight humanoids. It'll treat you better if you do.
I don't see the point of Hamatula Grasp really. You would probably be better off not maintaining the grapple each round. Get the grapple for free on your turn to keep them in place and impeded but free action release on your turn and full attack and re-grapple. If Hamatula Strike is a free action (which I'm assuming it is or you wouldn't have taken it because you don't have free swifts in your build) then it seems pretty nice.
Wait...
*Looks at Feat again*
"As an attack action..."
Well f&@$ that then, nevermind. I was thinking it'd let me do an extra attack after grappling them, not make me give up my attack.
Still, I like your idea. Strike, hold 'em still for my comrades, release, attack, restrike since it's a Free action (well actually it's NO action) to make the check as well.
So Improved Grapple + Hamatula Strike, delaying Panther to not even start until 9th (from the Bonus Feat) would be the plan there.
So I guess it really boils down to, which is better: AoO retaliations (or another Style), or free Grapple/Release/Attack/Grapple combo?
I kinda like the idea of repeatedly punching my arm through someone, ripping it out, and then punching it back in again.
As for the types of enemies, we're in Serpent's Skull, so most things have been of humanoid shape...so far. Though Gargantuan (Collossal?) Crocodiles have been known to appear, and I'm not sure about enemies later on (we're near the end-ish of Book 3 if anyone knows. No spoilers, but a general impression would be helpful).
"I kinda like the idea of repeatedly punching my arm through someone, ripping it out, and then punching it back in again."
That image is so badass it hurts.
You could go with the Monk 6 / Brawler 3 build and cut out Furious Focus and Combat Style Master ( At Monk 8 you'll be able to be in all three Stances at once anyway) to make room for both options.
I suppose you could talk your GM into creating a homebrew combat style...
Boar is actually pretty cool, until you remember you can simply take Belier's Bite and Cornugon Smash instead.
Hamatula Strike works best with Rapid Grappler (and Armor Spikes) Nicos acutally posted a Hamatula build in my build thread.
Another idea would be keeping Crane/Snake/Dragon but only using Crane on difficult encounters instead of every one of them... This way your GM doesn't get tired of it.
I wonder would getting the grapple successfully on your first attack impede the rest of your full attack?
I'll be able to do both eventually. This is my new plan here if I go with the Hamatula thing.
Monk 6/Brawler 3
1.) Power Attack
1.) Improved Grapple
1.) Combat Reflexes
2.) Furious Focus
3.) Dragon Style
3.) Dragon Ferocity
4.) Weapon Focus
5.) Snake Style
6.) Snake Fang
7.) Combat Style Master
9.) Hamatula Strike
Monk Bonus: Panther Style
Then at 11 snag Panther Claw, and 12 either Weapon Specialization (I'm going Brawler 4 at 12, then Monk again on through) or Panther Parry, and then Parry at 13 if that doesn't play out.
The thing with Combat Style Master is that the part that sucked so damn hard about being a MoMS before was that it took at least 2 rounds to get going (round 1 Dragon, Round 2 Snake) and ate your Swifts for both rounds as well. Now I START in Dragon and pick up Snake as a Free action (or vice versa) which is very helpful.
@Lemmy: I really don't want to ask Rey for anything else for a while. He's been quite accommodating so far and this is more a matter of indecision than anything else.
Ah, I see Rapid Grappler and also see it would be pretty much unavailable until 11 anyway. =(
Eh, maybe I'll pass on that idea then and just figure out whether Panther, Crane, or Other would be better.
The more I think about it the more I really don't care all that much for Monk past 6. Maybe I should just go like I am now, Monk 6/Brawler 3, snag Dragon Roar or something as the Bonus and then go Brawler or something else for the rest of the game.
At Monk 8 Combat Style Master is obsolete though as you will be able to enter up to 3 stances as a swift and you pretty much hit the three big stances already. Unless retraining the feat is an option at level 11, I'd play through the pain until then.
If I went Monk 6/Brawler 4 and then into Ranger I could actually snag the TWFing Feats I guess. Or surreptitiously swap my Con and Dex scores and snag at least the first one. I wish Barbarian wasn't alignment restricted. =(
Maybe I should shop around for a fun PrC too.
Who the hell knows lol.
At Monk 8 Combat Style Master is obsolete though as you will be able to enter up to 3 stances as a swift and you pretty much hit the three big stances already. Unless retraining the feat is an option at level 11, I'd play through the pain until then.
True enough I guess.
You could see about mixing in Martial Artist too if your DM is cool; MoMS and MA only overlap on the capstone which you won't get to anyway so it's not like they are really incompatible... and then you wouldn't have any alignment restrictions. Or you could just ask for the alignment restrictions to be waived as they are stupid =p.
Nah, that was one of the first things I asked about. The answer was Nope.avi.
And it wouldn't help matters anyway. I WANT to be Lawful Evil, and Barbarian requires Chaotic.
And it wouldn't help matters anyway. I WANT to be Lawful Evil, and Barbarian requires Chaotic.
Actually, Barbarian just requires that you be non-lawful. You don't need to be chaotic.
Well... From Monk level 8 to 9, you wouldn't progress your BAB anyway, so how about getting a few levels of Inquisitor by then?
I think he said he was planning Brawler after Monk 6 or 8, so he wouldn't have the dead BAB level there. Out of curiosity what Inquisitor abilities did you consider worth a dip for unless you meant stay to 5 for Bane?
I think he said he was planning Brawler after Monk 6 or 8, so he wouldn't have the dead BAB level there. Out of curiosity what Inquisitor abilities did you consider worth a dip for unless you meant stay to 5 for Bane?
At will detect allignment, Wis to initiative, cantrips, 1st level spells. mostly... Judgement is nice too, but Judgement +1 is not all that good at the level he'd get it.
Oh, and a domain!
A couple of low level spells and Wisdom to Initiative are a couple of nice perks, but meh to Judgement and the Domain. You really aren't taking enough levels to get much out of those two.
Hmm could do two levels for the Wisdom to initiative and so that the Bane Baldric would function with his fists.
A couple of low level spells and Wisdom to Initiative are a couple of nice perks, but meh to Judgement and the Domain. You really aren't taking enough levels to get much out of those two.
Depends on the domain, actually...
Travel increases your move speed permanently. And allows you to ignore difficult terrains for Wis+3 rounds per day.
Growth lets you use Enlarge Person on your self as a swift action. It lasts Wis+3 Rounds.
Conversion Inquisition allows him to use Wis instead of Cha to a nice selection of social skills, which can make him a very effective party face.
These are only 1st level Domain abilities.
Oh and he does get to add Wisdom to knowledge checks, although that might not be that useful if he doesn't invest in knowledge skills.
So we had our session today, and everything went swimmingly. Thanks everyone for your help!
Though it turns out he goofed and we actually WERE level 8 (not 9) so I just shoved all the Panther stuff to 9 for me to figure out later without trapping myself into it just yet.
Also, I beat the ever-loving s+#* out of EVERYTHING today. As it turns out, our Barbarian actually only has +15 to-hit on a Power Attack and deals 2d6+23 (+1d6 Acid) so currently I'm actually outstripping him in the to-hit/damage department, thanks to the Brawling property and the Gloves of Dueling I was barely able to afford by getting rid of the Monk's Robes.
So I won't have to focus on damage for quite a bit since I don't wanna pull too far ahead in anything really.
Highlight of the day was utterly annihilating a Vrykolakas after he decided he was going to miss 2 claw swipes on me which triggered 2 hits from Snake Style plus a third with the Immediate action for a solid 3d8+69 (Inspire Courage was up).
Bad side is my Monk is now Paranoid because Nat 1's suck ass, though at least I'm not the Rogue/Mantis Assassin who failed her save thrice and now has a DC 27 Will save to make to get rid of it.
Thanks again!
That's some good news! Nothing like out-damaging a Barbarian to rise morale... lol.
I'm sad for your Rogue friend... Can she even make the save with anything less than a natural 20?
Nope.
And if Nat 20's weren't auto-successes he wouldn't be able to make it at all.
Damn ghosts.
So she's so paranoid at this point that she's reached "The rest of my party is trying to read my mind an steal my success! But my helmet will protect me from the mind thieves!" levels of paranoia.
So this should play out interestingly in the future, considering things are already tense between her (a Red Mantis Assassin) and Sun Xiao (whose family was killed by Red Mantis Assassins who left him for dead and he's now both wary of them and envious of their "virtues").
Heh... Poor Rogue... That's why classes with poor will saves should always buy the best Cloak of Resistance they can afford and a Wayfinder + Clear Spindle combo! That stuff will saves your life!
Luckily for you, saves won't be a problem for Sun Xiao most of the time... Although you'll probably still curse the dice gods every now then.
Yay, monk! Gratz.
Yeah. I like having good saves. But dem Nat 1's mang. Especially on attack rols since we do fumbles (Nat 1 confirmed by another Nat 1).
Today was a good day for the character as a whole. Everything seemed to come together (except Initiative rolls). Even being Lawful Evil was helpful (Suck it, Unholy Blight! Though I had to fake it to make sure the Paladin didn't get suspicious.).
I'll point out that stuff to Case. I try to help everyone else with their characters where I can but the Assassin and the Barbarian are hard because they use a different char sheet than the rest of us and don't share them.
Glad you are liking your brawling armor. It is bar none, best bang for your buck for an unarmed fighter type. Since you get weapon training with the "close" group, you could always pick up a spiked shield, and go murder captain America, because... There can be only one!