Hallow and Plant Growth

[steerpike65]

I was re-reading the spell description of hallow recently and took notice of the following (my highlights):
"Spell effects that may be tied to a hallowed site include aid..."
This implies that other spells can be tied to a hallowed site. Would plant growth be a spell that could be reasonably tied to a hallowed site and if not, why not?
Thanks in advance for constructive advice.

[Kimera757]

Quote:

Hallow makes a particular site, building, or structure a holy site. This has four major effects.

First, the site is warded by a magic circle against evil effect.

Second, the DC to resist positive channeled energy within this area gains a +4 sacred bonus and the DC to resist negative energy is reduced by 4. Spell Resistance does not apply to this effect. This provision does not apply to the druid version of the spell.

Third, any dead body interred in a hallowed site cannot be turned into an undead creature.

Finally, you can fix a single spell effect to the hallowed site. The spell effect lasts for 1 year and functions throughout the entire site, regardless of the normal duration and area or effect. You may designate whether the effect applies to all creatures, creatures who share your faith or alignment, or creatures who adhere to another faith or alignment. At the end of the year, the chosen effect lapses, but it can be renewed or replaced simply by casting hallow again.

Spell effects that may be tied to a hallowed site include aid, bane, bless, cause fear, darkness, daylight, death ward, deeper darkness, detect evil, detect magic, dimensional anchor, discern lies, dispel magic, endure elements, freedom of movement, invisibility purge, protection from energy, remove fear, resist energy, silence, tongues, and zone of truth. Saving throws and Spell Resistance might apply to these spells' effects. (See the individual spell descriptions for details.)

An area can receive only one hallow spell (and its associated spell effect) at a time. Hallow counters but does not dispel unhallow.

Plant Growth isn't in there. (Uh oh. My own druid did this. Guess I better pick another spell. Freedom of Movement?)

Of course, the DM can always allow another spell, but they'll likely think carefully before they do so.

[Nightskies]

In other words, the list is comprehensive. When they say "Spell effects that may be tied to a hallowed site include", they aren't giving a list of common choices. A keyword missing to allow plant growth would be "Some spell effects..."

But I should mention, there is no need for plant growth to last a year. It already does. Having it exist as a continual effect as a way of barricading passage to the non-plant savvy is not the way Hallow is intended to work, anyway.

Sources.... don't need to cite Hallow, as it already is.

Plant Growth:

Plant growth has different effects depending on the version chosen.

Overgrowth: This effect causes normal vegetation (grasses, briars, bushes, creepers, thistles, trees, vines, and so on) within long range (400 feet + 40 feet per caster level) to become thick and overgrown. The plants entwine to form a thicket or jungle that creatures must hack or force a way through. Speed drops to 5 feet, or 10 feet for Large or larger creatures. The area must have brush and trees in it for this spell to take effect. If this spell is cast on an area that is already affected by any spell or effect that enhances plants, such as entangle or wall of thorns, any DC involved with these spells is increased by 4. This bonus is granted for 1 day after the casting of plant growth.

At your option, the area can be a 100-foot-radius circle, a 150-foot-radius semicircle, or a 200-foot-radius quarter circle.

You may designate places within the area that are not affected.

Enrichment: This effect targets plants within a range of a half-mile, raising their potential productivity over the course of the next year to one-third above normal.

Plant growth counters diminish plants.

This spell has no effect on plant creatures.

[StabbittyDoom]

Nightskies wrote:

In other words, the list is comprehensive. When they say "Spell effects that may be tied to a hallowed site include", they aren't giving a list of common choices. A keyword missing to allow plant growth would be "Some spell effects..."

But I should mention, there is no need for plant growth to last a year. It already does. Having it exist as a continual effect as a way of barricading passage to the non-plant savvy is not the way Hallow is intended to work, anyway.

Sources.... don't need to cite Hallow, as it already is.
** spoiler omitted **

Although if it WERE allowed it could potentially last longer than a year if attached to the Darkskull (or a holy equivalent).

[Kimera757]

Nightskies wrote:

In other words, the list is comprehensive. When they say "Spell effects that may be tied to a hallowed site include", they aren't giving a list of common choices. A keyword missing to allow plant growth would be "Some spell effects..."

But I should mention, there is no need for plant growth to last a year. It already does. Having it exist as a continual effect as a way of barricading passage to the non-plant savvy is not the way Hallow is intended to work, anyway.

No, Plant Growth has two effects, a combat and non-combat effect. The former one is quoted here:

Quote:

Overgrowth: This effect causes normal vegetation (grasses, briars, bushes, creepers, thistles, trees, vines, and so on) within long range (400 feet + 40 feet per caster level) to become thick and overgrown. The plants entwine to form a thicket or jungle that creatures must hack or force a way through. Speed drops to 5 feet, or 10 feet for Large or larger creatures. The area must have brush and trees in it for this spell to take effect. If this spell is cast on an area that is already affected by any spell or effect that enhances plants, such as entangle or wall of thorns, any DC involved with these spells is increased by 4. This bonus is granted for 1 day after the casting of plant growth.

Emphasis added. That's exactly what I was aiming at. I was hoping to choke the area around/in my druid grove, excluding all but the faithful (who could move freely through it). A great way to put a thumb in the eyes of the faithful of Erastil. (In the Kingmaker campaign my druid PC is in, most people are followers of Erastil, the druid follows Gozreh, and the "king" followed Iomede. Religious conflict comes up a bit.)

[Nightskies]

Ah, right you are on 1 day bonus. None the less, its not on the list. Consecrate similarly sounds like a spell that would fit, but its not on the list either. RAW, neither Plant Growth or Consecrate may be used with Hallow.

[steerpike65]

I'm sorry, but that's plainly incorrect - the words may and include clearly indicate that other spells can be added to hallow rather than just those on the list - the list is not definitive.

Otherwise, it would read:
"Spell effects that can be tied to a hallowed site are..."

[StabbittyDoom]

steerpike65 wrote:

I'm sorry, but that's plainly incorrect - the words may and include clearly indicate that other spells can be added to hallow rather than just those on the list - the list is not definitive.

Otherwise, it would read:
"Spell effects that can be tied to a hallowed site are..."

I believe you are misreading this. The "may" is being used as permission, as in "you are allowed to use these spells this way" and it is NOT being used to indicate any form of open-endedness. The only definition of 'may' that allows ambiguity is the one that is essentially equivalent to 'might', and even using that definition the sentence still reads as a definitive list.

The only open-endedness here is found in the word "include", as that word would indicate that all of the listed spells ARE allowed, but does not expressly prohibit others. That said, nothing else in the spell description for Hallow gives any "custom list" allowances, so one must assume they do not exist.

TL;DR - The list given is the final word on what you are allowed to attach, barring DM intervention.

relevant rules text wrote:

Spell effects that may be tied to a hallowed site include...

[Mauril]

The "may" does not indicate a larger list of spells, but rather that adding one of the spells is an optional part of using hallow. The first three elements are part of the spell itself, with the fourth part being a rider.

Quote:

First, the site is warded by a magic circle against evil effect.

Second, the DC to resist positive channeled energy within this area gains a +4 sacred bonus and the DC to resist negative energy is reduced by 4. Spell resistance does not apply to this effect. This provision does not apply to the druid version of the spell.

Third, any dead body interred in a hallowed site cannot be turned into an undead creature.

These three effects offer no option. When you cast the spell, you get them. However the fourth effect is clearly worded as an optional extra, in the same way that when you tell a child, "You can have a cookie. You may choose any one of these in the jar." You are not forcing the child to take a cookie but, if the child wants a cookie, they aren't allowed to pick a cookie that's not in the jar.