I haven't had to deal much with polymorphing until now. My luck's run out, though, as I've been sent this question by one of my players. He's playing a magus. We're currently at level 2.
I know it's a bit early since I won't gain access to the spell until 7th level, but wanted to get your thoughts and maybe give you a chance to think on it/research it before it come sup.
Polymorth spells normally do not allow the use of templates as detailed in the magic section of the core rulebook. Undead Anatomy, though, seems to allow such as it specifically mentions skeletons and zombies in the description. In your game are you going to rule that templates are ok, specifically like skeleton, zombie, vampire, burning skeleton, etc? The spell itself limits what abilities you gain from the creature you turn into.
If you do not have the ability to use templates you would never be able to have a creature that had fiery aura, fiery death, DR/10 magic and silver, or DR/15 bludgeon and magic. Those items there, specifically, are why I think the spell was intended to use templates.
Again, just wanted to get your thoughts as I do plan to use Undead Anatomy and Monstrous Physique as my primary go-to spells.
Along that line, could you also tell me how you are going to rule what creatures I would be able to use? Is it going to be just creatures have have faced, any creature I want, is there a skill I should take to give me broader knowledge, or what you got in mind?
Also, how do you want to handle different forms as far as stats go? If I go beast shape I lose all my armor/weapons and gain the natural weapons of the creature. I do not really plan to use beast shape, though, but with a creature like a gargoyle I'd still have claws, bite, and gore. It might be easiest for me to do up a list of all the creatures I know I want to turn into a create sheets for them all? Your call, that could get a bit cuttering on the launch screen I think.
To reiterate, no rush as this is not going to become a consideration for me until level 7 (assuming no one else is also interested in doing the same).
That bit at the end of the penultimate paragraph is partly explained by us using a virtual tabletop.
Any suggestions on how to work this out? It's still somewhat Greek to me at this point. I don't get the part about templates, I thought you had to pick specific creatures from the bestiary to change into. I was thinking of allowing him to change into any creature he would know about by taking 10 on a knowledge check; this would mean that taking 20 to research the creature gives him enough info to safely transform.
Also trying to figure out why a magus would want to use polymorphing for more than situational things.
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Essentially, undead anatomy will allow you to turn into a human skeleton or human zombie, but you can't add additional templates such as burning for skeleton or fast for zombie. In other words, if the creature exists in the Bestiary, Bestiary 2, or Bestiary 3, and it fits the requirements of the spell, you can turn into it, but you can't add more templates onto it.
The spell specifically calls out ghoul as an option and states ''such as,'' which implies more options, which makes sense considering the options available to the spell, such as burning. I'd just treat it as an exception to the rule, the spell doesn't make a whole lot of sense otherwise.
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Undead Anatomy is a spell from Ultimate Magic (UM) that lets a caster polymorph into an undead creature. Elsewhere, the Skeleton and Zombie have been made into templates for ease of creating additional and unique undead. These are virtually separate issues.
I would explain that the spell works just as described in UM, and not beyond that. Fiery aura, DR/10 magic and silver, and the other abilities he listed are available... by casting Undead Anatomy 4.
There is a specific set of abilities that can be gained by Undead Anatomy I; the player (intentionally or unintentionally) is asking for more power. The distinction you want to make clear is that undead templates exist, but his PC will not be gaining a template.
At 7th level the magus can choose Undead Anatomy I and Monstrous Physique I. Both require "a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume" as a material component. That in itself is pretty limiting unless the magus takes the Eschew Materials feat.
For different forms, I would also allow him to use Knowledge checks to 'research' other creatures like you said. His spells have a limited list of the special abilities he can use, no matter what amazing creature he researches might have. That just means if he researches a blazing skeleton, he can still become a skeleton. It is beyond the ability of his spell to mimic anything more.
Okay, this is the spell we are talking about, just for easy reference:
School transmutation (polymorph); Level alchemist 3, magus 3, sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume)
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 minute/level (D)When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium corporeal creature of the undead type, which must be vaguely humanoid-shaped (like a ghoul, skeleton, or zombie). You gain a bite attack (1d6 for Medium forms, 1d4 for Small forms), two claw or slam attacks (1d6 for Medium forms, 1d4 for Small forms), and darkvision 60 feet. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, low-light vision, and scent.
In this form, you detect as an undead creature (such as with detect undead, but not with magic that reveals your true form, such as true seeing) and are treated as undead for the purposes of channeled energy, cure spells, and inflict spells, but not for other effects that specifically target or react differently to undead (such as searing light).
Small undead: If the form you take is that of a Small undead, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.
Medium undead: If the form you take is that of a Medium undead, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus.
The way I am reading this, is you are looking at existing humanoid-form undead creatures you can polymorph yourself to resemble.
In the cases of the creatures mentioned, even though skeletons and zombies CAN be created via templates, the Bestiary HAS the stats written up for Medium size, humanoid-form versions of these creatures already. For example, when you look up skeleton, the first thing you see is stats for a Medium humanoid skeleton. Those are generally going to be the creature stats you are working with to compare to.
And moreover, you are definitely NOT applying the skeleton, ghoul, or zombie template to your character. You are using the guidelines for polymorph subtype spells and the description of the spell only to adjust your stats as needed. Polymorph does not let you take templates.
So say you want to use undead anatomy to turn into something resembling a medium sized zombie.
You look up zombie here. You just look at the stats at the top of the page.
Because the spell states that you get a bite attack (even though zombies do not actually have a bite attack), you get a 1d6 bite attack. You get your choice of claw or slam, I would take slam because zombies have a slam attack although I think technically it's your choice. You gain darkvision 60 feet, per the spell.
You then check the zombie stats against this list of abilities:
climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, low-light vision, and scent."
A zombie has none of these abilities, so you don't get any of those. (However, you're also not staggered like a real zombie, amongst other benefits).
Finally, you add +2 to Nat Armor and +2 to Str for transforming into a Medium creature. (If you transformed into Small, you'd just use those stats instead and adjust your damage dice accordingly.)
Even if you were to hand-craft a zombie out of a template before doing this, the character would end up looking exactly the same as above, because the spell itself limits what abilities you can and can't take.
NOW: I can see someone saying, "Okay, I want to use undead anatomy to turn into a burning skeleton." A burning skeleton is a skeleton with additional templated abilities. The spell's note clear, but I think a GM could allow that if you wanted. BUT you are NOT applying the burning template to the PC. You're applying it to the source creature you're comparing it to, and then only taking the abilities the final, templated creature has that the spell (and polymorph spells in general) allow you to take. If the SPELL allows the abilities the template grants, you get them; if it doesn't you don't.
In the case of the burning skeleton, no versions of undead anatomy that a magus can cast will allow you to take the fiery aura or fiery death abilities. So even if you say you are a burning skeleton, you can't do those things. However, a burning skeleton is immune to fire. Undead anatomy III does grant you 20 resistance to an element of the source creature has such a resistance or immunity to. So then if you cast undead anatomy III, then you, polymorphed into a burning skeleton, would have fire resistance 20 (but not the other burning skeleton's unique abilities). Otherwise, you look like a spooky burning skeleton, but don't have any flamey abilities it has because the spell doesn't give them to you. ((ETA: undead anatomy IV does allow those abilities, but it is not on the magus spell list, plus that's an awfully high spell to mimic the abilites of a CR 1 monsters... by the time you cast that you're probably mimicking another creature instead.))
I don't see any reason not to allow that kind of use of templates, as it's so limited by the spell.
IN SHORT: if you allow templates, the template never gets applied to the polymorphed PC. It gets applied to the source monster, and then you can take those abilities if the spell allows it.
As for his question about pre-determining stats
I would definitely recommend his noting what his stats would be in his preferred forms. He doesn't necessarily need to put up whole statblocks, though. He can just put a line in his character sheet like so:
Beast Shape III Gargoyle Form (Medium Magical Beast): +4 to Str, +4 to Natural Armor. 2 claws 1d6, bite 1d4, gore 1d4. Darkvision 60', fly 60' (average)*.
*((Note: the spell allows up to fly 120 (good), I've never been sure whether you stick to the limitations of the creature or allow to the maximum the spell grants, even if it exceeds what the creature can do))
Undead Anatomy IV (sor/wiz 8) does indeed allow you to take the fiery aura or fiery death abilities. This spell does not appear on the magus spell list.
Sorry, I read the list of abilities and swear I didn't see it, thanks. Example still applies for how undead anatomy III works (and polymorph spells in general). I've edited my other post for clarity (hopefully).
You always use the lower value for speeds with a polymorph spell.
Other cool things you can turn into with UA 1: a mummy,a lich, a ghast, a vampire/spawn, other cool medium undead from the newer bestiaries I don't know, ect. You don't get much from them as opposed to the zombie or skeleton, but you can still do them. The real question is can you use other humanoids than just the bestiary stat block one, such as strix to get a fly speed from UA 1. What about the different racial options for player races? Say I wanted a halfling vampire with the fleet of foot racial option. Is this something I can do?
You always use the lower value for speeds with a polymorph spell.
Other cool things you can turn into with UA 1: a mummy,a lich, a ghast, a vampire/spawn, other cool medium undead from the newer bestiaries I don't know, ect. You don't get much from them as opposed to the zombie or skeleton, but you can still do them. The real question is can you use other humanoids than just the bestiary stat block one, such as strix to get a fly speed from UA 1. What about the different racial options for player races? Say I wanted a halfling vampire with the fleet of foot racial option. Is this something I can do?
Does the spell grant you the fleet of foot ability? No?
Then no.
Just a warning to GMs: you should be very wary about allowing PCs to make bloody skeletons via necromancy, as they are extremely broken.
I was in a campaign with an Undead Lord who animated a horde of bloody skeletons (including three dragons.) They are nearly impossible to kill because of their fast healing, and even if you kill them they reanimate an hour later. Every single encounter became "we send the dragons in to kill the monsters" because it always worked and took zero resources. The GM hated it because any damage he did was healed almost immediately, and as a PC I hated it too because the actual party wasn't doing anything except waiting for the undead to clear the dungeons.
Just a warning to GMs: you should be very wary about allowing PCs to make bloody skeletons via necromancy, as they are extremely broken.
I was in a campaign with an Undead Lord who animated a horde of bloody skeletons (including three dragons.) They are nearly impossible to kill because of their fast healing, and even if you kill them they reanimate an hour later. Every single encounter became "we send the dragons in to kill the monsters" because it always worked and took zero resources. The GM hated it because any damage he did was healed almost immediately, and as a PC I hated it too because the actual party wasn't doing anything except waiting for the undead to clear the dungeons.
A bloody skeleton can be permanently destroyed if it is destroyed by positive energy, if it is reduced to 0 hit points in the area of a i]bless[/i] or hallow spell, or if its remains are sprinkled with a vial of holy water.
If you use the same tactic over and over again, smart enemies should get wise. As the deathlessness of a bloody skeleton can be defeated by energy channeling and cure spells in addition to a common 1st level cleric spell or an item costing 50 gp, your GM should not have been afraid to start chucking any of those around, let alone hallowing appropriate areas for good measure.
It's good to be aware of how things can be broken, but while GMs should not necessarily insta-nerf any good tactic a party comes up with, neither should they be afraid to exploit the inherent balancing weaknesses of those tactics when it is reasonable for the NPCs he is playing to do so.
Just a warning to GMs: you should be very wary about allowing PCs to make bloody skeletons via necromancy, as they are extremely broken.
I was in a campaign with an Undead Lord who animated a horde of bloody skeletons (including three dragons.) They are nearly impossible to kill because of their fast healing, and even if you kill them they reanimate an hour later. Every single encounter became "we send the dragons in to kill the monsters" because it always worked and took zero resources. The GM hated it because any damage he did was healed almost immediately, and as a PC I hated it too because the actual party wasn't doing anything except waiting for the undead to clear the dungeons.
A bloody skeleton can be permanently destroyed if it is destroyed by positive energy, if it is reduced to 0 hit points in the area of a i]bless[/i] or hallow spell, or if its remains are sprinkled with a vial of holy water.If you use the same tactic over and over again, smart enemies should get wise. As the deathlessness of a bloody skeleton can be defeated by energy channeling and cure spells in addition to a common 1st level cleric spell or an item costing 50 gp, your GM should not have been afraid to start chucking any of those around, let alone hallowing appropriate areas for good measure.
It's good to be aware of how things can be broken, but while GMs should not necessarily insta-nerf any good tactic a party comes up with, neither should they be afraid to exploit the inherent balancing weaknesses of those tactics when it is reasonable for the NPCs he is playing to do so.
Well A) we didn't fight many good-aligned clerics, B) most of the people who saw the dragons died immediately (we were generally good about Dimensional Anchoring), C) the dragons had so many HP (and their fast healing) that I don't know of the dragons ever even went down, and D) he was probably ready to do whatever was necessary to stop people from doing any of those things if they ever did go down.
Honestly I wish the GM had killed the dragons because the campaign would have been MUCH more interesting, but I don't see any good way to do it besides a positive energy cleric with a couple Reach Spell Heals and Quick Channel.
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Also trying to figure out why a magus would want to use polymorphing for more than situational things.
Undead anatomy and Monstrous Physique grant substantial stat bonuses that stacks with most gear. Weapons and armor remain with both of these spells. The forms can cast with no special requirements.
I personally plan on using elemental body once available, as I don't wear armor. Eschew materials will be required to cast in this form.
The magus can no-fail cast 3rd level spells from a scroll at level 5 and can no fail cast 4th level spells from a scroll at level 7. This allows the spells he is asking about to enter play before 7th level.
You always use the lower value for speeds with a polymorph spell.
Other cool things you can turn into with UA 1: a mummy,a lich, a ghast, a vampire/spawn, other cool medium undead from the newer bestiaries I don't know, ect. You don't get much from them as opposed to the zombie or skeleton, but you can still do them. The real question is can you use other humanoids than just the bestiary stat block one, such as strix to get a fly speed from UA 1. What about the different racial options for player races? Say I wanted a halfling vampire with the fleet of foot racial option. Is this something I can do?
Does the spell grant you the fleet of foot ability? No?
Then no.
true, but the ability changes the base speed of the base creature, so it stays when you become the undead. So now you have a halfling vampire with a base 30 ft speed, so you should get that speed with UA. Of course it's a moot point because you could just become a goblin vampire for the move speed, but the halfing isn't as noticeable from a distance.
First of all, look, I found something:
Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template
So no, you can't apply a template to your undead creature, and use the base example stats provided in the Bestiary, in the case of a zombie, etc.
true, but the ability changes the base speed of the base creature, so it stays when you become the undead. So now you have a halfling vampire with a base 30 ft speed, so you should get that speed with UA. Of course it's a moot point because you could just become a goblin vampire for the move speed, but the halfing isn't as noticeable from a distance.You always use the lower value for speeds with a polymorph spell.
Other cool things you can turn into with UA 1: a mummy,a lich, a ghast, a vampire/spawn, other cool medium undead from the newer bestiaries I don't know, ect. You don't get much from them as opposed to the zombie or skeleton, but you can still do them. The real question is can you use other humanoids than just the bestiary stat block one, such as strix to get a fly speed from UA 1. What about the different racial options for player races? Say I wanted a halfling vampire with the fleet of foot racial option. Is this something I can do?
Does the spell grant you the fleet of foot ability? No?
Then no.
You bring up an interesting issue.
Forget undead anatomy. Let's look at a simpler spell. If I turn into a halfling with alter self and say the halfling has fleet of foot, do I gain the 30 base speed as well?
I've always generally understood it that when you turn into another race, you do not gain their racial abilities. I can't see anything that explicitly confirms or denies this (all this may mean is that I am reading in the wrong place). Polymorph spells do definitely grant the source creature's base speed, however.
The restrictive interpretation is that fleet of foot (or the goblin's fast speed) is a racial ability, and if the spell doesn't grant racial abilities, then you don't get it. You get the base speed minus the racial ability.
The unrestrictive interpretation would be yes, you get the base speed of whatever creature you transform into for any polymorph spell.
So you're saying I can only be a human zombie? A human vampire? A human skeleton? ALOT of undead creatures have only one example stat block and a good portion of them are humans. That, mixed with the fact that almost all undead are templates, seems to me that this spell is an exception to the rule. That rule was more to prevent adding things like fiendish to get get resistance and such.
Even if you use the given stat blocks they still are creatures with templates. So by that rule you could never make a zombie or a skeleton.
Undead anatomy and Monstrous Physique grant substantial stat bonuses that stacks with most gear. Weapons and armor remain with both of these spells. The forms can cast with no special requirements.Also trying to figure out why a magus would want to use polymorphing for more than situational things.
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body.
OK, that's where I was getting confused. I thought all polymorphing melded your gear into your form.
Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.
Since nothing in Undead Anatomy explicitly contradicts this, I think I'll stick with creatures that are given full stats in the bestiaries. Maybe once I've gotten used to it I'll look at others.
A better question is whether the rest of the party is OK with someone who regularly turns into a skeleton.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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So you're saying I can only be a human zombie? A human vampire? A human skeleton? ALOT of undead creatures have only one example stat block and a good portion of them are humans. That, mixed with the fact that almost all undead are templates, seems to me that this spell is an exception to the rule. That rule was more to prevent adding things like fiendish to get get resistance and such.
If I were GMing I wouldn't leave it wide open to anything you slap a template onto. It's also not allowed in PFS.
It's not explicitly laid out in the spell so what your GM agrees to is up to him.
Where Does it say Undead anatomy is illegal in pfs? Nothing in the additional resources page about the spell.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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Undead anatomy is perfectly legal in PFS. You just can't use templates when you use it. It's in the FAQ.
Edit: Forgive me, it's not in the PFS FAQ....
It's right smack in the middle of the Polymorph section of the magic chapter.
"Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature."
Undead anatomy is perfectly legal in PFS. You just can't use templates when you use it. It's in the FAQ.
Edit: Forgive me, it's not in the PFS FAQ....
It's right smack in the middle of the Polymorph section of the magic chapter.
"Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature."
(Sorry about the late reply)
I know that, it's been stated repeatedly. However,two of the creatures that it specifically calls out as things you can change in to, zombie and skeleton, are by definition template creatures. Even the given stat blocks are just human [class]1s with the templates added. You can't just make a skeleton or zombie, you must have a base creature and add a template. So two of the examples of undead you can emulate that are given in the spell are illegal by that rule.|
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They are not "by definition" template creatures. I don't think the phrase 'template creature' even appears anywhere in the text. The polymorph rules say you can't transform into a "creature with a template". The zombie is not a 'creature with a template' because there is a stat block right there on the page, they are whole and complete in and of themselves. You can create other types of zombies by applying a template, but human zombies you don't have to.
You are basing your logic on a concept absent from any actual rules.
You are basing your logic on a concept absent from any actual rules.
I'm basing my logic on the fact that it's a HUMAN zombie, not just a zombie. If you can show me stats for a creature just called a zombie, then yes you would just use those stats, but it's a HUMAN zombie. It has a base creature, it has to, you can't just have a zombie. They aren't going to list the template because it's implied. It would be redundant. They took a human with any number of levels from any class with a particular physical stat block, and applied the zombie template to him. For all the other polymorph spells this makes perfect sense. A lion is a lion. Not a human lion, not a wolf lion. It's just a lion. However the stat block given in the bestiary is for a HUMAN zombie with a particular set of physical stats. If they have used a zombie wolf for the example creature would you be arguing that that would be the only type of zombie you could use?
Everyone needs to carefully read the spell description again... Read very carefully:
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium corporeal creature of the undead type, which must be vaguely humanoid-shaped (like a ghoul, skeleton, or zombie)
Bolded is mine: Its pretty clear.. you have to be humanoid shape LIKE a Zombie, Not an actual Zombie... so no 4 legged Zombies or Zombie with Wings,ect.
There is no mention of a Zombie Template or type... you APPEAR to look like a Zombie.. but you are actually a corporeal creature of the undead type..
Go ahead and call yourself a Zombie... or Skeleton if you want... but you are not. Infact this is a great Spell to perhaps scare off NPCs, but a Sense motive check or high perception check or Spellcraft check could tell otherwise.
So the argument is mute. The Spell is just an undead version of the Polymorph spells similar to a Druid's wildshape abilities.
Just an FYI... a Dancing Lights spell or Ghost Sound in addition to produce Flame would make a scary looking Fire Skeleton or Zombie, so using this to scare should work but not all the time.
Everyone needs to carefully read the spell description again... Read very carefully:
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium corporeal creature of the undead type, which must be vaguely humanoid-shaped (like a ghoul, skeleton, or zombie)
Bolded is mine: Its pretty clear.. you have to be humanoid shape LIKE a Zombie, Not an actual Zombie... so no 4 legged Zombies or Zombie with Wings,ect.
There is no mention of a Zombie Template or type... you APPEAR to look like a Zombie.. but you are actually a corporeal creature of the undead type..
Go ahead and call yourself a Zombie... or Skeleton if you want... but you are not. Infact this is a great Spell to perhaps scare off NPCs, but a Sense motive check or high perception check or Spellcraft check could tell otherwise.
So the argument is mute. The Spell is just an undead version of the Polymorph spells similar to a Druid's wildshape abilities.
Just an FYI... a Dancing Lights spell or Ghost Sound in addition to produce Flame would make a scary looking Fire Skeleton or Zombie, so using this to scare should work but not all the time.
Yes, but, as with all polymorph spells, you must choose a creature to emulate. Here's a link to the polymorph section of the magic chapter of the CRB. You must choose a specific creature to emulate with the spell, not just what you want to look like. With beast shape you must choose an animal to draw what abilities you get from the spell. Choosing a lion grants the movement speed, natural attacks, and special abilities of a lion within the confines of the spell you're using, you don't just look like the lion. You can't just pick and choose which abilities you want. In the same vein you must choose an undead corporeal form to emulate with undead anatomy, with UA 1 having the stipulation of humaniod and UA 4 getting rid of the corporeal. Even with UA 1 I can, at least in how I read it, take the form of any humaniod zombie, skeleton, ect, even if they are normally templates, meaning I could use, lets say, a strix for it's fly speed, or a monkey goblin (inner sea bestiary) for it's climb speed. I'll be honest I'm not sure what your point is. Not trying to offend or anything, I'm actually confused on exactly what your point is.
In the case of UNDEAD ANATOMY you could polymorph into any specific zombie, the spell specifically says you can transform into a zombie or skeleton. This specific mentioning of such creatures overrules the no template ploymorph rules however flaming skeleton is a advanced version or templated version of a base skeleton/zombie creature (a creature with the zombie or skeleton template) thus anything other then a base zombie/ skeleton would not be allowed
That said you could choose say a orc Zombie or gargoyle zombie, a gargoyle has wings but is still humanoid in form.
technically a creature that is a valid zombie/skeleton and has the humanoid descriptor as a keyword is valid for this spells form (size restrictions also considered)
Eh you could argue that flaming skeletons and such are variants of the original templates, and thus if you can transform into the original template you can transform in to the variants. That UA 4 gives pretty much all of the abilities that the zombie and skeleton vatiants give gives pretty good justification for the argument. But that comes in to play so late, UA 4's an 8th level spell, that it wont come in to play in pfs, or most games for that matter, and if it does just talk to the GM about it.
Humanoid being in the type has really nothing to do with what you can change in to, but it is a good guideline. While all humanoids are legal, not all monstrous humanoids would qualify. Gargoyles and most others would be fine, they're humanoid in shape, but centaurs and some others wouldn't work, as they aren't. You could even look at other types, such as aberration or fey, as long as they are humanoid in shape. Technically you could even do some outsiders depending on if you consider outsiders alive, which is what's needed for zombie and skeleton. That's abit of stretch, though. I'd stick to clearly allowed things pfs, as GMs may not agree, and just talk to your GM otherwise.
The question I want to know is does UA 2+ keep the stipulation about humanoids and the specific natural attacks? It does say "functions as undead anatomy I" but doesn't keep the humanoid in "allows you to assume the form of a Tiny or Large corporeal creature of the undead type" so it's abit open ended. It also doesn't say anything about the natural attacks, but UA 1 never says anything about scaling damage with sizes larger than medium, so I'm guessing no on that one.
There is no such thing as the humanoid keyword. There is the humanoid type, which doesn't include monstrous humanoids. The word you seem to be forgetting is shaped. It has nothing to do with any game mechanic, it's how the creatures shape. Apes are more vaguely humanoid than centaurs. So are pit fiends, solars, gargoyles, and even dreches. Huamnoid means having a human like shape. The "vaguely" adds things like wings and tails and things like that. It doesn't let replace your crotch with a horse.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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You are basing your logic on a concept absent from any actual rules.I'm basing my logic on the fact that it's a HUMAN zombie, not just a zombie. If you can show me stats for a creature just called a zombie, then yes you would just use those stats, but it's a HUMAN zombie. It has a base creature, it has to, you can't just have a zombie. They aren't going to list the template because it's implied. It would be redundant. "They took a human with any number of levels from any class with a particular physical stat block, and applied the zombie template to him. For all the other polymorph spells this makes perfect sense. A lion is a lion. Not a human lion, not a wolf lion. It's just a lion. However the stat block given in the bestiary is for a HUMAN zombie with a particular set of physical stats. If they have used a zombie wolf for the example creature would you be arguing that that would be the only type of zombie you could use?
Zombies existed in the game well before the concept of templates existed. Similarly, skeletons predate templates in the game system by about 15-20 years.
The "zombie" wasn't created from a template, the template was created from the base zombie.
Not that any of this matters because the rules don't ever make a distinction. There are creatures in the book and creatures you create with templates. Some zombies are in the book... some you create "with a template". You can use the former. Templates are design shortcuts for creating other creatures which are not detailed in the book, they don't alter creatures which are in print.
I'm only one new GM, but I've a got a knee-jerk reaction against allowing a player to take the form of anything that wasn't actually humanoid type with this spell. It's too much like getting the other polymorph spells included for free, and they're not supposed to stack. I'm not sure I would allow you to change humanoid subtype, either, since Alter Self does that. Maybe with the higher levels of Undead Anatomy. I need to flip through the undead sections of the bestiaries and see what's there without templates.
I'm only one new GM, but I've a got a knee-jerk reaction against allowing a player to take the form of anything that wasn't actually humanoid type with this spell. It's too much like getting the other polymorph spells included for free, and they're not supposed to stack. I'm not sure I would allow you to change humanoid subtype, either, since Alter Self does that. Maybe with the higher levels of Undead Anatomy. I need to flip through the undead sections of the bestiaries and see what's there without templates.
It is a somewhat powerful spell in that regard, but if you look the stat modifiers are worse and they are also higher level spells than their counterparts. UA 1 has basically the same limitations as alter self, a 2nd level spell, and is 3rd level. This trend continues with UA 2 getting large a level later than beast shape and the level gaps go up from there. And the positive energy/negative energy heal switch can very easily cause problems when the most common healers in groups is a positive channeling cleric or an oracle which usually choose the cure spells for their bonus. This problem is even worse in pfs because, while the party in a campaign can make changes to accommodate this, you can't count on a pfs cleric/oracle to have such spells. There's also the roll playing aspect to consider. The townsfolk might not take the parties wizard turning in to an undead monstrosity too well. =)