Draw a weapon as a part of a move?

[Rithralas]

The rules are fuzzy on this and I'm just trying to get clarity from the community.

I am referencing the first printing of the core rules.

The rule basically states that you can draw a weapon (or ready/drop a shield) as part of a "regular" move as long as you have a BAB of +1 or higher.

The sentence is confusing in that "regular" is undefined, although I have always played it as the act of moving from one place to another i.e., not as a move equivalent action. (My logic is that there are no "irregular" move actions).

The "MOVE ACTION" table on page 183 even contains footnotes to clarify which move actions qualify (draw a weapon or read/drop a shield).

So, if I start my round with a potion in my hand and want to move to an enemy and draw a two handed weapon on the way, my understanding of RAW is as follows:

Move action - stow the potion
Move action - move 10 feet to enemy and draw a two handed weapon as a free action
End of turn and have to wait to attack next round

Is this correct?

If the answer is no, then the following scenarios (starting the round empty handed this time) should be possible:

Move action - open a door and draw a two handed weapon as a free action
Standard action - attack enemy on other side of the open door
End of turn

or

Move action - move a heavy object and draw a two handed weapon as a free action
Standard action - attack enemy adjacent to you
End of turn

or

Starting the round with a light crossbow in one hand)
Move action - load a light crossbow, drop it as a free action and draw a two handed weapon as a free action
Standard action - attack enemy adjacent to you
End of turn

or

Move action - mount a steed and draw a two handed weapon as a free action
Standard action - attack enemy adjacent to you
End of turn

See a pattern developing here? Please discuss. How do YOU rule this? What is the intent of the rule?

[Writer]

All of the listed examples are RAW legal. It makes sense IMO and reflects real world combat pretty efficiently. Might I ask why this needs discussion?

[Cheapy]

Quote:

Move action - stow the potion

Move action - move 10 feet to enemy and draw a two handed weapon as a free action
End of turn and have to wait to attack next round

Correct.

Quote:

Move action - open a door and draw a two handed weapon as a free action

Standard action - attack enemy on other side of the open door
End of turn

Not correct. You haven't moved.

Quote:

Move action - move a heavy object and draw a two handed weapon as a free action

Standard action - attack enemy adjacent to you
End of turn

Not correct. You still haven't moved.

Quote:

Starting the round with a light crossbow in one hand)

Move action - load a light crossbow, drop it as a free action and draw a two handed weapon as a free action
Standard action - attack enemy adjacent to you
End of turn

Nope, still haven't moved.

Quote:

Move action - mount a steed and draw a two handed weapon as a free action

Standard action - attack enemy adjacent to you
End of turn

Nope,still haven't...really...moved...

I think the key part here is that it's a regular move, not a move action. There's a difference between the two, and you were right that it's "not as a move equivalent action."

To move, you must change squares. (That's why the last one is a bit weird.) The regular probably refers to normal movement, not things like teleportation.

[Rithralas]

Writer wrote:

All of the listed examples are RAW legal. It makes sense IMO and reflects real world combat pretty efficiently. Might I ask why this needs discussion?

It is my new understanding that the latest printings have cleared this up, but the fact that the footnotes were in the first printing in the first place lead me to rule this differently. So, I was seeing if others were playing it the same way I was.

[Rithralas]

Cheapy wrote:

Quote:

Pretty much agrees with my understanding

This is why I wanted to discuss this.

[Writer]

Cheapy wrote:

Stuff.

I've always understood it as part of a move action, not just a move.

[Cheapy]

Well, it says move, not move action. You can move without using a move action, and not all move actions move you.

You wouldn't be able to draw your weapon on a charge, for example, if it required a move action. And this rule is basically made for charge.

[Shar Tahl]

Best to have direct quotes from the PRD when there is a rules question that you know where it is referenced.

prd wrote:

If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.

Not quite so fuzzy. A Regular Move, not a move action in general. If you move from the point you started the round, and have at least a +1, you may draw a weapon RAW. If a level 3 witch cackles, they do not get to draw their weapon as a free action. "Regular Move", as opposed to an immediate action move off your turn given by an ability, like Step Up.

[Rithralas]

Right on. This is how I understood it, and have always played it. I would think that loading a crossbow and drawing a weapon at the same time would be quite challenging for even the most seasoned warrior. ;-)

[Kazaan]

It's a bit confusing since Move Action is a category of actions as in Standard Action, Move Action, Swift Action, etc. But "the Move action" is a specific kind of Move Action that is also named "Move" (just as "the Attack action" is a specific kind of Standard Action). But what it means when it says you can draw as part of a "regular move" is the Move action (specific), not any Move Action (general). Essentially, if you're moving some distance, ie. walking somewhere, you can draw your weapon. You could not do this if you were using the Run action, the Charge action, taking a 5-foot step, or any other procedure that involves moving a distance without being "the Move action".

[Komoda]

This was easier to understand if you think of other actions as Move Equivalent Actions and not Move Actions.

I just looked it up for 3.5 and they were still called Move Actions, but I think 3.0 might have called them Move Equivalent Actions. If not, my group automatically started calling them by this a long time ago.

[Howie23]

I understand a "regular move" to be the action that consumes a move action called "move." I exclude other actions that involve movement, such as run, charge (special case), withdraw, 5-step, crawl, etc.

I have seen others apply it to those other forms of movement.

I have seen others apply it to any move equivalent action. This one is rarer than other forms of movement.

It's a little clearer in PF than in 3.5, because PF added the option for a charge to allow drawing a weapon if the total movement was a maximum of a single move distance. Would this be necessary if a charge, being movement, allowed drawing a weapon? No. That all said, using these sort of counter-example arguments are not conclusive due to the simple fact that the rules are not reality, and there can be corner cases, inconsistencies, and downright paradoxes in the rules due to the fact that they are a human invention rather than an attempt to describe an observed factual reality. Rule designers can try to cover an explicit loop-hole and in the process forget others, be unaware of them, or create new ones.

[Dust Raven]

I've always understood this rule to mean you can draw a weapon as part of a Move (a specific type of move action), and not any other action. You cannot draw a weapon as free action combined with part of standing up. You cannot draw a weapon as a free action combined with dismounting a steed. And you cannot draw a weapon as a free action combined with drawing a weapon!

Charge is a special case, because the charge action specifically states you can draw a weapon as part of that action, despite a Charge is not a Move.

[Ravingdork]

A "normal move" refers to movement, as in from one square to another. The "normal" part means you cannot do this on a 5-foot step, a run action, or other forms of special, atypical movement (though I believe charge is a specific exception). It must be a plain, vanilla move action made to move.

I'd also allow this on a double move, as that's really just two normal move actions made to move twice.

EDIT: Darn, Howie beat me to it.

[Cheapy]

Howie's point convinced me. Thank god too. I really didn't like the whole "I 5' step and draw my different weapon" shenanigans.

[Komoda]

You can only draw a weapon, without other feats of course, as part of a movement, not as part of a move action.

The reason behind this is because when you are moving there is some free time that you are able to do things. It actually takes time to move from point A to point B. As such the game allows you a few distinct things that you can do, such as draw a weapon, during this time.

This does not work for move equivalent actions like drawing a potion. Why would you get the free ability to draw a weapon from drawing a potion? If that were the case you could draw 1500 weapons because the act of drawing each one would enable you to draw another one.

As to drawing during the 5-foot step, this is not allowed because the 5-foot step is a non action. It happens so fast that you can't add anything to it. It is the extra action that you get while doing other things. As such you can't add extra things to it.

[Komoda]

Oh, and it is kind of backwards with mounts. On those you can move the mount and make a move action, as long as it is not movement. This again is because of the time taken to move from A to B.