Pulling your own weight (carts, wagons, and maximum carrying loads)

[Mistah J]

Hey,

So my players are just starting a low-level 'survive the wilderness' adventure and they want to build a wagon to cart around the supplies they've gathered.

Assuming they can do that (how to quickly build a wagon is its own thread), how should I adjust the numbers for how much they can drag?

I'm assuming here that the 'push or drag' weight limit is based off of full contact with the ground and that propping it all up on wheels makes it easier.

Consider their Str score to be 2 points higher? 4? Maybe 'reduce' the weight of the supplies?

I know 'weight watchers' doesn't sound like much fun for an adventure but I'm only doing it the once... at low-level when it actually makes for a challenge. It doesn't take long before magic and whatnot makes these types of challenges obsolete.

Thanks!

[Jeraa]

Quote:

A character can generally push or drag along the ground as much as five times his maximum load. Favorable conditions can double these numbers, and bad circumstances can reduce them by half or more.

Wheels are definitely a favorable condition, so double the numbers they can push/drag. However, since they are in the wilderness, the terrain might not be favorable to a wagon or cart, so that could halve the numbers for a result of no change in what they can push/drag.

[SlimGauge]

If they're in a hurry and the terrain is suitable, they might try a travois instead. If they can do a wheel, but aren't up to a full wagon, they might try a wheelbarrow.

On a theoretically perfectly flat frictionless plane, a tiny force can move an infinite mass, but with an equally tiny acceleration. Of course, on such a theoretical plane, your feet would have no traction either.

For rolling resistance, the force needed to move an object of a given weight is F = Crr * N where F = force, Crr is the Coefficent of Rolling Resistance and N is the "normal" force (the weight).

The best "real world" is probably steel wheels on a steel rail for a Crr of about 0.0003. This does not include other forces like air resistance, flange resistance on curves, grades, etc.

The closest to your example is probably a stage coach on a dirt road, or Crr of 0.0385 to 0.073.

The worst is ordinary car tires on sand, or 0.3.

I'm not sure what the tare weight to gross weight ratio is going to be for a field construction wagon, but it'll likely be fairly lousy.

[Vod Canockers]

Real world, the terrain is much more important than what the vehicle is. An average person can push a car on flat smooth road, but could never get it to move on a prairie in grass.

[SlimGauge]

Average car = 4000 lbs.
Crr for ordinary car tires on concrete = 0.010 to 0.015
4000 * 0.015 = 60 lbs of force.

Put the same car on sand ?
4000 * 0.3 = 1200 lbs of force. Not gonna move that by hand.

[Eric Mason 37]

Does this "wilderness" have roads? If not, forget the cart idea.

Is it plains? If it is you could drag a travois. (Long poles that drag along the ground. You can hitch them to humans, dogs, and ungulates.)

Rivers everywhere? Bring on the canoes, which can carry a lot and still navigate fairly small waterways. They're also light enough for the occasional portage (i.e. pick up the canoe and walk to the next river).

Miscellaneous terrain, a string of pack ungulates (mules, donkeys, horses, etc.) is very flexible. It can deal with most of nature except that which necessitates a very large boat.

I was the numbers man when we had a bunch of horses for a long journey. I had it worked out how many spare animals I needed for carrying fodder for set distances... It was fun to delve into the practical.

Eric