Not willing to part with Skybolt, my players have instead decided to go to war with the Centaurs. Being lazy and uncreative, I don't know what to do with that. The players will probably just want to fly about and fireball any centaurs they come across. Anybody have something more interesting? A PFS scenario that could work? Pulling part of an adventure from another book?
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Make it scary for them, the numbers should give the PCs pause, a good tough battle might make a difference. Do they have allies that might have an opinion like the Kobolds or Tyg and Perlivash?
I think you have a great opportunity here to have a bit of fun with the Mass Combat rules in KM. Give your players a taste of what is to come, and perhaps put a bit of fear into them too.
Centaur military units taking back various hexes from their Kingdom, pushing in their borders - especially if the players haven't bothered to create any troop units (quite possible early on - military units aren't cheap). Watching their work exploring and taking hexes collapse might wise them up. Or perhaps trigger a rethink on their part to make peace. Think 4-5 Centaur units (not big ones, but still) taking hexes off the Kingdom, every month. That is going to hurt in a hurry and trigger major issues within their Kingdom if it starts to add up.
Some of the crack units should have capable command teams - PC's vs Command Team battle to determine if they win/lose a hex.
Remember that centaurs aren't complete idiots - they are mobile, won't bunch up for the fireball, and their bows can outrange a fireball - remember 100 guys firing bows at max range - a 20 always hits. 5d8 damage on average to your party wizard (barring counter-measures, obviously).
Diplomatic surprises! Perhaps the centaurs have a deal with Mivon to the south - or the players get wind of them trying to setup something with Mivon and have to do a deal with Mivon before the centaurs do (to prevent a two front war). Role play time for your Diplomancy PC's.
In my game, the players gave up Skybolt (and the party Zen Archer Monk wanted it sooo badly too). The centaurs negotiated a border for their "lands" and as part of the deal, provided the PC Kingdom with their first modest military unit (upkeep = free, the centaurs "pay" for it) - a 100 centaur strong mobile cav force w/projectile weapons. It came in very handy. The PC's played it well - so I gave them that unit as a reward for some good roleplaying and diplomacy.
You can make this a real tough, interesting issue for their Kingdom if you want.
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Centaurs can be run as Mongol-type hit-and-raiders, shooting with a longbow from outside your range, repeating till you run out of countermeasures, and then closing for the kill. Centaur archer builds can be a killer.
Warring with the centaurs shouldn't be easy. Lots of hit-and-run, lots of hunting, lots of night ambushes. They have druidic magic as well (not a lot, but it's hard to find a druid who doesn't want to be found in the wild, and their strike-backs can be painful.) No fixed bases to attack.
On the other hand, they don't really have the oomph to go after fortified places, either (unless druids can substitute for artillery, which they might.) They can isolate forts, but have a hard time taking them. (Think Indian wars...)
All in all, you could have a very interesting long-term campaign here. Or the PCs could fortify the border and keep some light cavalry units around to counter centaur raiding parties -- a continual low-level drain of resources to the east, unless they find some way to deal with it themselves, eventually.
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The centaurs will use their mobility to their advantage. Try to imagine what Maegar Varn went through, and inflict it upon the party.
Ideas:
Druidic divinatio
Bows vs fireball
Hit and run
Avoiding direct contact with the PCs, instead going after the weaker "commoners" of their kingdom
>> teach them that not everything can be fixed by fireball :)
Not willing to part with Skybolt, my players have instead decided to go to war with the Centaurs. Being lazy and uncreative, I don't know what to do with that. The players will probably just want to fly about and fireball any centaurs they come across. Anybody have something more interesting? A PFS scenario that could work? Pulling part of an adventure from another book?
Centaurs make great enemies, and there is much honour to be gained by defeating them.
They will need pike/polearms if they are lancer based, and a way to counter horse archery and protect their archers and troops from charges if the centaurs more favour bow cav.
They basically face a big problem if they fight in the plains, and if the centaurs bring superior numbers (an individual centaur is a tough foe for low levels). If they dig into castles, fortifications, trenches, woods, the centaurs will be more at a disadvantage.
Exciting stuff!
TPK if you're playing tough or a sound thrashing, probably with a few deaths, if you're not. Antagonizing a village is a really dumb thing to do.
The party should not be able to defeat the centaurs on their own, even if they are level 10. Ten minutes of flight or invisibility won't get you far in open plains or hills. From personal experience, I can attest that at least on foot you won't get out of bow range in that time. The centaurs have numbers, range, speed, and experience on their side. Their ancestors fought the Taldan legions to a standstill and have survived ongoing hostility from the swordlords. A squad of gravity bow armed switch-hitter rangers backed up by regular warriors is nothing to sneer at, and can harry the party for hours.
I echo the advice used above. Multiple hit-and-run raider groups that take over the newly claimed Varnhold hexes, and possibly move deeper into the kingdom. In order to achieve a military victory, or even survive, the players will need to raise an army of their own, which may require time and resources they don't have. Hiring a mercenary army from Mivon may be an option, perhaps the only one despite the cost the swordlords demand. Pitax has connections with marauding barbarians, but what will the price be?
As for resolving the conflict, the party will need to defeat the centaurs military, extremely difficult even with a mercenary army, or find a diplomatic solution to the problem. Help the players understand just how important this relic is to the centaurs and how dangerous a foe they are. The item is valuable, but is it worth it? Another consideration, it it right to keep it?
*edit* Your castle walls mean nothing to Kankerata!
If they have an army, it goes to who is better on the battlefield, and how the newly made kings or queens outsmart and best the centaurs in skirmishes and maybe pitched battles. Or they lose, the centaurs drive them back, take everything and demand their surrender (to the angry horse coc* god of war).
More interesting though, is if they don't have an army at their back or nearby. A whole session could be taken up with retreating and fortifying a spot, a la the battle of the mounds. Make it very hard, but possible to win as the players try to hold their ground against this cavalry force. If they are victorious this is a great win over the centaurs, the leadership die in the battle and the pcs subdue the nearby tribe (which has now lost its best warriors). Now what happens next in the region is on the table, but this is for a quick result in a players vs centaur tribe situation.
Hostilities with the centaurs can also lead to problems within the kingdom. Any citizen becomes a target. Merchant caravans coming south from Brevoy can be hit by bands of centaurs. Perhaps the kingdom takes a hit to its finances. Outlying farms are raided, putting a dent in the food supply. Fast-moving guerrilla tactics keep the people in constant fear, raising unrest until the matter is resolved one way or another.
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I'm sorry but I'd screw your PCs over badly. You're playing a game where you're supposed to be the heroes of the story (if you're not that's fine but that's not my campaign likely.) If you just resort to greedy stab'em in the face and take their sh*t, I'm as a rule going to TPK you, and hard. MY real suggestion kill'em kill'em all.
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I like your ideas Loyalist. Ditto Shadowborn. Mongols with longbows and druidic magic are scary
However, I'm kind of with Solspiral on this one. 'What? Are you sure you want to do that...?'
Curious DMFTood, what was the players reasoning behind keeping the bow? Strikes me as kind of a dick move to keep it.
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That's right. Anytime the PCs do something you don't like, TPK them. Pathfinder isn't about having fun, it's about obeying the GM. If they don't obey, they have to be punished. Or else they might actually have fun and enjoy their characters and not respect you as the God you are. Throw a tarrasque at them too. That'll teach those pesky players!
Now that I have gotten that sarcasm out of the way, I agree with 3.5. Let them war with the centaurs. If they win, then they proved that might makes right and they deserve to keep the bow. If they lose, they learn to keep their promises next time. And they'll hopefully have fun doing it. Make it challenging but not an auto TPK. That's just some kind of Orwellian GMimg right there.
Well I guess its just a pet peeve of mine, I also tell players the kind of game I run from the get go.
I don't do evil campaigns they are just not my bag baby, and I also tell them if I wanted to play munchkin I'd pull out the card game. Seriously, that object is not only practical but very important to the Centaur culture- as far as the PCs know the Centaurs might have wiped out a kingdom that started at the same time as them, not only are they being greedy but how many of the people they are supposed to be ruling going to die because a player wants to keep a bow that frankly isn't even that great.
You rule a KINGDOM, you're 10th level and you're going to go to war and let people die over a +2 darkwood composite (+4)thundering bow!
My kids don't have a father, and we lost the flower of a generation because you wanted to save a little over 8,000GP...
That and its supposed to be super obvious fighting Centaurs = BAD IDEA.
The PCs are extremely outnumbered, obviously in a situation where the centaurs are not pushovers. Forget for a moment the PCs are being greedy munchkins- they are being Stupid. They die because of observations made by Darwin, the entry makes it clear that as a GM you should indicate to the PCs that attacking the Centaurs is suicide... TPK, roll it out but by the numbers TPK
IF you are not up for it I volunteer Turrin The Mad, he's totally good at it!
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Depending on the kind of Kingmaker game you are running, the centaurs could cause problems in quite a few ways. This is assuming you aren't just going to allow the party to claim the bow and spank the centaurs, something I might add that Maegar Varn was never able to do.
If you just want a quick fix that is easy on the party, have the centaur approach and ask to make peace. The party will be required to offer gifts equivalent to the value of Skybolt that are useful to the centaurs, plus complete Dudemeister's centaur challenge to be seen as worthy allies. Afterwards they all sing kumbaya and everyone carries on as normal.
Or you could teach them the price of making unnecessary enemies:
- The centaurs can have either a smart leader, or perhaps Nyrissa provides the brains for this group now as well.
Step 1- Hire a middleman to hire some loudmouth hunters who talk it up big of going after the centaurs, have them do this in outlying farms and villages closest to the centaurs.
Step 2 - Have them come back and celebrate their victory, describing riding down the centaurs, including the young trying to flee. Basically offending most of the villagers while reminding them that your PCs kingdom is funding their hunts (obviously not true, but when did that ever factor into public opinion?)
Step 3 - Centaurs attack and punish these same villages and farms.
Step 4 - Send another "Grigori" into the PCs villages and farms proclaiming how wrong the PC rulers are to endanger their lives over some petty squabble. Unrest rises and doesn't go down with mere kingdom rolls. Now we have a situation fireballs won't fix.
More:
The centaurs could also harry troops moving in the field, move thru the kingdoms at night burning farms, and retreat to the plains and mountains before the party can respond. If you want to really challenge the group, add a sympathetic druid who befriends the Roc in Book 3 and uses it to be an aerial scout for the centaurs. Finally, future enemies of the party could include centaur units until they make peace.
If you have any worshippers of good gods, in particular Desna, the party could see omens of bad tidings unless they make peace.
I have the opposite problem in my game. I wanted to plant the seed about the Nomen, so when Maegar Varn came to a festival in my PCs kingdom, he mentioned problems with savage riders, making the centaurs sound like barbarians. A month or so later, Desna sent dreams to her inquisitor in the party about saving the worshippers of Mother Moon. My zealous inquisitor paid all sorts of sages to research this info, discovered it was what centaurs in Iobaria call Desna, put two and two together and now wants the party to stop everything and go help them. Originally, I had not wanted them to realize that Maegar was hunting and skinning them, so this should be an interesting turn of events if it progresses.
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I tied the centaurs to the land (per Dudemeister's excellent work). The creatures of the land are apt to rise against the players. If they can catch on, a quest of atonement may be in order. My players had to visit the centaur holy lands (though they never attacked the centaurs) and gain comprehension of each site in order to be accepted as a tribal member before they shared their secrets.
On the other hand, the centaurs aren't suicidal. If overmatched, they are mobile nomads and will move. The party may chase nothing for awhile, and in the meantime, as recommended, everything in this land (e.g. Kankerata) will turn against them.
Overall, the adventure can work if the players kill the centaurs. Perhaps due to sheer cluelessness they'll stumble on Vordakai's lair, or Vordakai will begin preying upon their people to study what they know in this new age.
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As to how this came about...
The party had acquired the bow and were investigating the plains. The centaur riding party came up to them, some harsh words were traded, the centaurs spotted the bow in the ranger's hands, rode up to him, and demanded he hand it over. Blows ensued (PCs first), the PCs killing all 6 centaurs.
They've rescued the daughter which has bought them some peace - the leader agreeing not to attack the humans as long as they don't move east at all. My players don't recognize that treaty.
As to how this came about...
** spoiler omitted **
Things can so easily get out of control, I wouldn't blame the pcs. Conflict seems inevitable, the plainsriders are coming.
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As to how this came about...
** spoiler omitted **
When players run a kingdom, they can't afford to think the same way. You have to make darned sure someone is an enemy before dealing with them directly and ruthlessly, and it is best to try and turn them to your own use if possible by siccing them on your other enemies and saving you a lot of trouble. Bottom line is that if you start a conflict or perpetuate it, your kingdom will suffer. Whether you can afford this suffering is up to the PCs to decide. However, the AP sets up enough mischief, there really is no need to go creating more.
Reasons not to get in a war with the centaurs:
1- nothing to be gained except a personal magic item
2- Party risks Varnhold area safety after they atagonize centaurs
3- The party has no idea how many other allied centaur herds are around that the Nomen can call on for aid. You as a GM may know, but they certainly shouldn't, which means they have no idea how big a hornet's nest they are stirring.
4-At this stage in the game, the party probably has no army units that are as mobile, fast, and dangerous as 100 centaur unit. ouch...
5- As written, centaurs are proud, arrogant, bristly, easily offended, and prone to carry grudges already.
6- Biggest reason is because in Book 4 they will be fighting a war on two fronts, and find it hard to explore west while the centaur threat remains on the east.
Perhaps have one of their NPC council bring up some of these points or perhaps a centaur diplomatic specialist from Restov can journey to their kingdom to give them advice.
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@Odraude That wasn't my intent. I like letting players reap the consequences of their actions, good and bad, and going to war with a tribe of centaurs is a bad idea that I can easily see leading to a TPK. Much like if a 10th level party enter the lair of powerful dragon.
@Redcelt Nice to hear more about the campaign.
@Loyalist As far as the initial meeting is concerned, quite possibly. Really would depend on what the characters know and who said what. As for the second, sounds like the PCs fault. "Stay off our land!" "Sure." Later on "Just kidding. We're taking your land."
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Yeesh.
Are the players more inclined to bully/browbeat NPCs into doing what they want? It's something I've seen with some players that tend to go into social/diplomatic situations with the idea that they can brute force everything they want on account of them being PCs and therefore being(or going to be) more powerful than everyone around them. No sense for compromise or keeping one's word when it became the slightest bit inconvenient.
Not saying that's what's at play here, but that mindset can wreck this campaign rather easily.
Maybe some NPC advisors could nudge them into trying a soft touch to get what they want sometimes. And to invest in the future. Being an evil group doesn't mean they have to be a self-destructive one.
Well playing a lowish int or wisdom ruler in kingmaker can be great fun. Feel your way out, deal with the consequences, don't always play it sensible, calculating.
I think war with the centaurs is a great idea, what a challenge! F*** those horse f***ers.
If they don't want to play ball with their neighbours, they will win or perish.
""Stay off our land!" "Sure." Later on "Just kidding. We're taking your land.""
Laughed pretty heavily at this. The pcs will get a rep as deal-breakers, ooh exciting.
Yeesh.
Are the players more inclined to bully/browbeat NPCs into doing what they want? It's something I've seen with some players that tend to go into social/diplomatic situations with the idea that they can brute force everything they want on account of them being PCs and therefore being(or going to be) more powerful than everyone around them. No sense for compromise or keeping one's word when it became the slightest bit inconvenient.
Not saying that's what's at play here, but that mindset can wreck this campaign rather easily.
Maybe some NPC advisors could nudge them into trying a soft touch to get what they want sometimes. And to invest in the future. Being an evil group doesn't mean they have to be a self-destructive one.
Yeah and trying to browbeat centaurs can so spectacularly fail. Level 10s are still quite vulnerable to a good lancing. Where did my hp go?
And then of course they might release the Kankerata, lord of the Bullettes!
Even though it seems to be meant to be read with a smirk and and a wink, I'd actually go further and give their druid leader(s) some power over the land including Kankerata and the roc at Talon Peak or even invent some lengthy, costly, exhausting (to avoid spamming) ritual having the land react badly towards PC's settlements/improvements to the hexes (earthquake, flooding, draught, swarms of vermin, ...)
Where did my hp go?
Found them!
Ruyan.
Sorry, I'm with Odraude on this. "I'm going to TPK them because I don't like the way they're playing" is NEVER an appropriate response. EVER. If you really dislike your group's style that much, you should be dealing with that OOC, because it's an OOC issue - your players have made characters or decisions you aren't comfortable, for whatever reason, GMing for, and clearly you're not on the same page as for what you're expecting out of the campaign.
Seriously, that object is not only practical but very important to the Centaur culture- as far as the PCs know the Centaurs might have wiped out a kingdom that started at the same time as them, not only are they being greedy but how many of the people they are supposed to be ruling going to die because a player wants to keep a bow that frankly isn't even that great.
And if that's the kind of characters they're playing, great for them. If that's not the kind of game you run they would know that from step one, but that's irrelevant to this conversation, because it's not your game we're talking about. It's Todd's, and either he didn't see this coming or is okay with running a non-benevolent group of PCs through this thing.
Some groups don't care about other cultures. Some groups don't care about playing nice. Some groups would see the centaurs as just another people living on another region to be conquered and assimilated. Which really is no different than a lot of cultures and rulers IN REAL LIFE. Who yes would go to war over something so petty as the ownership of a few small objects of worth... or something even less, such as a single spoken insult. And while that may not be something you're interested in GMing for, that doesn't make the solution of "I don't like what you're doing! TPK! TPK! I'm going to keep throwing things at you until you die horribly!" an appropriate response.
Hell knows how my group is going to respond. They're all neutral (Two TN, one LN, one CN) except one CE character, but they've been eager to diplomance everything they've encountered thus far except the Stag Lord and the Trolls, despite the Magus and Samurai's eagerness to get into fights. Though I imagine the one party member who would be most interested in keeping the bow - the Rogue - is also the one most likely to give it back once the ownership is pointed out.
ALL THAT SAID... I also agree with you, and Dudemeister and Loyalist, that a war with the Centaurs will likely be very poor for the PCs unless they are lucky or crazy prepared. Doubly so if you take the links to the land hinted at in the books and expand them as per Dudemeister's VV edits or some other stuff here to be found. But if they manage to pull it off, bully for them. It'll be a heavy drain on their resources though, and I imagine there'll be a need for a lot of recuperative downtime before moving on to Chapter Four.
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ALL THAT SAID... I also agree with you, and Dudemeister and Loyalist, that a war with the Centaurs will likely be very poor for the PCs unless they are lucky or crazy prepared. Doubly so if you take the links to the land hinted at in the books and expand them as per Dudemeister's VV edits or some other stuff here to be found. But if they manage to pull it off, bully for them. It'll be a heavy drain on their resources though, and I imagine there'll be a need for a lot of recuperative downtime before moving on to Chapter Four.
Ha! Recuperative downtime is for players that make alliances. The time they would have spent resting post-Vordekai is instead time spent warring with Centaurs. Throw them right into the thick of it. Sandbox means you can make any choice you want, it also means consequences for hasty and irrational decisions.
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Although I want to make something clear. I don't endorse punishing players for their choices. I do believe in consequences.
Logically there is a force of about 100 Centaurs. We know the highest level one is a level 7 Centaur (Aecora Silverfire).
So breaking it down (or at least the way I'd break it down):
1 Level 7
2 Level 6
4 Level 5
8 Level 3
16 Level 2
32 Level 1 PC Class
37 Level 1 NPC Class
ALL THAT SAID... I also agree with you, and Dudemeister and Loyalist, that a war with the Centaurs will likely be very poor for the PCs unless they are lucky or crazy prepared. Doubly so if you take the links to the land hinted at in the books and expand them as per Dudemeister's VV edits or some other stuff here to be found. But if they manage to pull it off, bully for them. It'll be a heavy drain on their resources though, and I imagine there'll be a need for a lot of recuperative downtime before moving on to Chapter Four.Ha! Recuperative downtime is for players that make alliances. The time they would have spent resting post-Vordekai is instead time spent warring with Centaurs. Throw them right into the thick of it. Sandbox means you can make any choice you want, it also means consequences for hasty and irrational decisions.
Yep. That time in which they would likely be trying to recuperate is probably about when Drelev will start poking around, I imagine.
Logically there is a force of about 100 Centaurs.
Have they dwindled down to that number?
Anyways, I agree on the resource drain and all that - remember that they were responsible to stop Taldor being all that eager to send more troops up north (although that was many years in the past).
Even against 100 centaurs, I have problems seeing the PCs win. Logic would dictate to send all 100 against them in one go. They might not storm a castle/fortified town (with the Mongol-like culture being mentioned, I'm actually not so sure about that), but they will definitly defend their homeland (or what's left of it) with all their might.
Hopefully an NPC councilor can point out a thing or two concerning consequences...
Ruyan.
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Although I want to make something clear. I don't endorse punishing players for their choices. I do believe in consequences.
This to me is the most important thing for players to understand in Kingmaker: actions have consequences. Sometimes these are rewards or beneficial windfalls and other times they are not so good. Unlike being a normal adventurer, running a kingdom means having a vested interest in everything and having to look and also think before leaping.
So I would not wipe my PCs out because they were foolish enough to attack Brevoy in Book 2 for instance, but they certainly would suffer unpleasant consequences, like perhaps losing their kingdom or being stripped of their titles. But who is to say that having this happen and then winning it back wouldn't be more fun for the PCs than plodding along forward making safe but good decisions.
So if your players want to conflict with the centaurs, it could be one of the best things to ever happen to your game, just not necessarily one of the best things to ever happen to the PCs.
Don't get me wrong I'm not normally that heavy handed as a DM, but then again my players are typically experienced gamers that also DM and would not do something so shortsighted. Heck my job as a DM might be easier is they sucked a little more,
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I would say that the threat the Nomen poses to the PCs kingdom is perhaps overstated a bit by some posters. Certainly, a force of calvary archers, perhaps using guerrilla tactics is nothing to scoff at, so however much larger the PCs army is they certainly could be a threat of some sort. However, they will certainly be unable to take and hold territory, since that will open them up to retaliatory strikes that will certainly overwhelm them. So while the Nomen can certainly be a nuisance to the kingdom, they have no chance of conquering any of it.
bear in mind this si just part of a tribe as the Nomens are also in the Iberia
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Book says that there are 200 at that encampment, and thats not counting children but it is a majority of the tribe. I'd suspect smaller nomadic encampments that are mainly hunting parties throughout the Nomen Hills. Still if its the majority then its at least a bit bigger than half of their total population. With raider tactics 200 to 400 riders could do a bit of a damage.
I don't think that's quite what it says. The module says that the Nomen are a tribe that exists as part of a larger ethnic group, but I don't see any indication that they have any political affiliation with that larger group that would mean that a war with the Nomen of the Stolen Lands would involve their kin in Ioberia.
Kill them until Nomen remain.
Book says that there are 200 at that encampment, and thats not counting children but it is a majority of the tribe. I'd suspect smaller nomadic encampments that are mainly hunting parties throughout the Nomen Hills. Still if its the majority then its at least a bit bigger than half of their total population. With raider tactics 200 to 400 riders could do a bit of a damage.
Player splits the head of a centauress hut-wife, then uses cleave on a centaur child.
"Hey Bob, are we the bad guys?"
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"Nah, monsters don't count."
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I don't think that's quite what it says. The module says that the Nomen are a tribe that exists as part of a larger ethnic group, but I don't see any indication that they have any political affiliation with that larger group that would mean that a war with the Nomen of the Stolen Lands would involve their kin in Ioberia.
You are right. It implies that the Nomen are just a particular tribe, with a matriarchal and warrior society. They do describe these female warriors as heavily armed and armored.
And actually says right here on page 33 that there are 200 centaurs in the tribe.
Wouldn't that include children though? Given how population is normally done. Not saying an adolescent centaur can't kill a man, but might not be 200 warriors ready to go at a moment's notice.
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They said that 60 to 80 are outside of the tribe at any time which stand as hunters (civillian) or patrollers (millitary). I'd say that another 60 are underaged. Still leaves you with the one hundread, but these are primarily rough and tumble charge you under warrior women engaging in conflict often. Enough to keep Brevoy from expanding here on their own and the only region in the Stolen Lands that doesn't seem to be under Fey influence, that I would confidentially say that they are the chief reason Varn was the first attempt to settle this region in a long time, and it looks like with a small and paltry force as to not earn the aggression of the Nomen, but enough a military force to discourage being attacked.
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The tribe is matriarchal because their men have been killed in prior wars so much that they've been forced to relegate men to non-combat roles to have any left to repopulate the tribe.
While proud, the "Nomen" (I changed this to be a derogatory term given by Varnhold and gave them a more tribal name), probably aren't in a position to desire a war with humans and protect the land from Vordakai at the same time.
I did the same as Dude: Varnhold was so small and impoverished because of its war with the centaurs. Players were a bit shocked their little barony was so advanced and the guy with a head start so limited.
I would say that the threat the Nomen poses to the PCs kingdom is perhaps overstated a bit by some posters. Certainly, a force of calvary archers, perhaps using guerrilla tactics is nothing to scoff at, so however much larger the PCs army is they certainly could be a threat of some sort. However, they will certainly be unable to take and hold territory, since that will open them up to retaliatory strikes that will certainly overwhelm them. So while the Nomen can certainly be a nuisance to the kingdom, they have no chance of conquering any of it.
Conquer? No. Bankrupt? Yes.
Armies are fairly expensive to upkeep. 200 centaurs is a CR 5 army. That's 10 BPs a month for the PCs to maintain. And wherever the PCs army is, you can be sure the centaur army isn't, they're in some other hex causing unrest, and unrest is a kingdom killer. The PCS will have to field multiple armies to protect their kingdom, which can get expensive fast.
Plus, even if the centaurs can't hold a hex, they don't need to. Just losing the hex will hit the kingdom with unrest, and then the PCs have to spend even more BPs to reclaim and rebuild any farms or improvements.
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I would say that the threat the Nomen poses to the PCs kingdom is perhaps overstated a bit by some posters. Certainly, a force of calvary archers, perhaps using guerrilla tactics is nothing to scoff at, so however much larger the PCs army is they certainly could be a threat of some sort. However, they will certainly be unable to take and hold territory, since that will open them up to retaliatory strikes that will certainly overwhelm them. So while the Nomen can certainly be a nuisance to the kingdom, they have no chance of conquering any of it.Conquer? No. Bankrupt? Yes.
Armies are fairly expensive to upkeep. 200 centaurs is a CR 5 army. That's 10 BPs a month for the PCs to maintain. And wherever the PCs army is, you can be sure the centaur army isn't, they're in some other hex causing unrest, and unrest is a kingdom killer. The PCS will have to field multiple armies to protect their kingdom, which can get expensive fast.
Plus, even if the centaurs can't hold a hex, they don't need to. Just losing the hex will hit the kingdom with unrest, and then the PCs have to spend even more BPs to reclaim and rebuild any farms or improvements.
...and just about the time the PCs have enough armies to deal with the Nomen (or at least defend their kingdom) suddenly there are problems on the other side of their kingdom in Tatzlford. Welcome to the second front your Majesty...and the impending bankruptcy attempting to pay for the armies and keep your kingdom afloat. The Nomen will focus on trashing the farms that are providing consumption relief, making things worse. Even if the PCs declare a witch hunt and slaughter every Nomen, word of their misdeeds and dishonor will spread among the other centaur tribes. And with the Nomen gone...well, nature doth abhor a vacuum. Perhaps the second tribe of centaur are larger and fiercer.
Or you can play the Nomen like just another basic encounter and let the party flay them and move on cleanly and neatly. But where I ask you is the fun and poetic justice in that? :P
On the other hand, if the party does an about face and allies with the centaurs, offering amends and perhaps a trade agreement or a gift of some BP, I would grant a fairly decent stability bonus to their kingdom due to the stout Nomen riders defending their eastern border.
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+1 to Othniel! Whose to say Iroitti doesn't offer the PCs some troops, for an appropriate price of course, that are a bit too happy to stick around once the fighting stops. Or you could just go with a straight acceleration of the plans.
Have your players dealt with Vordakai yet?
Nothing like a Zombie Apocalypse to bring people together!