Paizo has stated "Of course, the GM is free to rule that in certain circumstances, a creature can apply weapon bonuses for these maneuvers". Would this include a grapple from having a grab on a natural weapon? I think it would. Particularly if you are controlling the grapple with that body part(like you are for the feral gnasher Barbarian). What I am thinking of creating is a feral gnasher barbarian with dueling(luck bonus to combat maneuvers equal to double the enhancement bonus) and a bodywrap of mighty strikes(enhancement bonus on a natural attack). Combining these would give me a cheaper, effective way to grapple.
I would do something like this: Agile Maneuvers>unarmed strike>improved grapple>greater grapple
My level 10 bonus would be
=8(dex)+4(Grab)+4(imp/greater grapple)+10(BAB)+9(enhanc and luck)+3(surprise accuracy)=38
Am I missing anything?
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcom
johnlocke90 wrote: Paizo has stated "Of course, the GM is free to rule that in certain circumstances, a creature can apply weapon bonuses for these maneuvers". Would this include a grapple from having a grab on a natural weapon? I think it would. Particularly if you are controlling the grapple with that body part(like you are for the feral gnasher Barbarian). What I am thinking of creating is a feral gnasher barbarian with dueling(luck bonus to combat maneuvers equal to double the enhancement bonus) and a bodywrap of mighty strikes(enhancement bonus on a natural attack). Combining these would give me a cheaper, effective way to grapple.
I would do something like this: Agile Maneuvers>unarmed strike>improved grapple>greater grapple
My level 10 bonus would be
=8(dex)+4(Grab)+4(imp/greater grapple)+10(BAB)+9(enhanc and luck)+3(surprise accuracy)=38
Am I missing anything?
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcom
How would you get the Dueling enhancement on your bite? Would you be enchanting it onto the bodywraps, or onto an Amulet of Mighty Fists? Either way, it'll be pretty expensive.
However, if you are able to do so, then yes these bonuses would all apply to your grapple attempts.
cartmanbeck wrote: johnlocke90 wrote: Paizo has stated "Of course, the GM is free to rule that in certain circumstances, a creature can apply weapon bonuses for these maneuvers". Would this include a grapple from having a grab on a natural weapon? I think it would. Particularly if you are controlling the grapple with that body part(like you are for the feral gnasher Barbarian). What I am thinking of creating is a feral gnasher barbarian with dueling(luck bonus to combat maneuvers equal to double the enhancement bonus) and a bodywrap of mighty strikes(enhancement bonus on a natural attack). Combining these would give me a cheaper, effective way to grapple.
I would do something like this: Agile Maneuvers>unarmed strike>improved grapple>greater grapple
My level 10 bonus would be
=8(dex)+4(Grab)+4(imp/greater grapple)+10(BAB)+9(enhanc and luck)+3(surprise accuracy)=38
Am I missing anything?
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcom
How would you get the Dueling enhancement on your bite? Would you be enchanting it onto the bodywraps, or onto an Amulet of Mighty Fists? Either way, it'll be pretty expensive.
However, if you are able to do so, then yes these bonuses would all apply to your grapple attempts. It would be on the amulet. Bodywraps would have all of the enhancement bonus. I fail to see how 4000 gold is expensive.
johnlocke90 wrote: cartmanbeck wrote: johnlocke90 wrote: Paizo has stated "Of course, the GM is free to rule that in certain circumstances, a creature can apply weapon bonuses for these maneuvers". Would this include a grapple from having a grab on a natural weapon? I think it would. Particularly if you are controlling the grapple with that body part(like you are for the feral gnasher Barbarian). What I am thinking of creating is a feral gnasher barbarian with dueling(luck bonus to combat maneuvers equal to double the enhancement bonus) and a bodywrap of mighty strikes(enhancement bonus on a natural attack). Combining these would give me a cheaper, effective way to grapple.
I would do something like this: Agile Maneuvers>unarmed strike>improved grapple>greater grapple
My level 10 bonus would be
=8(dex)+4(Grab)+4(imp/greater grapple)+10(BAB)+9(enhanc and luck)+3(surprise accuracy)=38
Am I missing anything?
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcom
How would you get the Dueling enhancement on your bite? Would you be enchanting it onto the bodywraps, or onto an Amulet of Mighty Fists? Either way, it'll be pretty expensive.
However, if you are able to do so, then yes these bonuses would all apply to your grapple attempts. It would be on the amulet. Bodywraps would have all of the enhancement bonus. I fail to see how 4000 gold is expensive. Ah, I forgot the special caveat for AoMF that you don't have to have a +1 on it first. Fair enough.
I'm not sure that the duelling on the amulett takes into account enhancements on the bodywraps. Does it work that way?
Would a magus who has a +1 duelling weapon count his arcane pool enhancement for his duelling? If it does the same should be true for the example above.
The only issue I have is I don't think you can combine the AoMF and bodywraps to enchant the same thing. You would have to use one or the other.
Lord Phrofet wrote: The only issue I have is I don't think you can combine the AoMF and bodywraps to enchant the same thing. You would have to use one or the other. Why not? I know enhancement bonuses don't stack, but I am using different bonuses.
From what I understand you are trying to use the dueling property from AoMF to apply to the bonuses you are getting from bodywraps. Since you are getting the enhancement bonus from a different source I do not think that the dueling property would be applicable. Now if you had a +4 dueling AoMF I see no issue from it.
you can't combine ANY effects of Bracers and Armor at the same time, including special effects, not just enhancement bonus stacking numerically. only the highest bonus applies.
perhaps there's special wording here, but if not, that precedent should apply.
Lord Phrofet wrote: From what I understand you are trying to use the dueling property from AoMF to apply to the bonuses you are getting from bodywraps. Since you are getting the enhancement bonus from a different source I do not think that the dueling property would be applicable. Now if you had a +4 dueling AoMF I see no issue from it. Common misconception. The bonuses aren't on the amulet or the bodywraps. They are both on the weapon they are modifying. Read the dueling description
"When a dueling weapon is used to perform a combat maneuver that utilizes the weapon only (see below), it grants a luck bonus equal to twice its enhancement bonus on the CMB check made to carry out the maneuver."
The amulet can't have the dueling property on it. Its not a weapon. The property is on my bite attack, and my bite attack also has the enhancement bonus from the bodywraps.
You need to have the dueling enchant on whatever is granting the +'s to your natural/unarmed attacks.
You could enchant the bodywraps with enhance and dueling, or the AoMF with enhance and dueling, but if there is no enhancement on the item with the dueling property, then it has a bonus of 2x0, so pretty much worthless.
If you are talking about whether the Dueling property would add the enhancex3 (effectively, base bonus +luck of bonusx2) provided you had a +4 dueling bodywrap or AoMF, then yes, you actually have a +12 to grapple. If you have a AoMF dueling(no enhance) and bodywraps +4, then no, you only have a +4 to grapple with the bite. If you have bodywraps +5, and an AoMF +2 Dueling, then you have +9 total, the +5 for the enhance from the wraps and a luck bonus of 4 from the AoMF(since the +2 enhance is lower than the +5)
If you had a +1 dueling longsword that then got a +3 enhancement from Greater Magic Weapon, you'd get +6 to maneuvers with it despite the fact that the enhancement bonus isn't inherent to the sword.
This isn't terrifically different with an AoMF granting the bite attack the dueling property and the wraps granting an enhancement bonus. The result is a +X dueling bite with the same properties of any other weapon with the same enchantment.
Using the same item enchanted with both effects. A sword with dueling that has GMW on the same sword.
Would you argue that having a +1 Dueling dagger and a +5 dagger gives you a +15 to disarm with the dagger?
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
The dueling property and the enhancement bonus are both on the same weapon in this case: the bite natural weapon.
TGMaxMaxer wrote: Using the same item enchanted with both effects. A sword with dueling that has GMW on the same sword.
Would you argue that having a +1 Dueling dagger and a +5 dagger gives you a +15 to disarm with the dagger?
Except those are two weapons, not one.
A better analogy would be if I had a +5 dueling dagger and gloves that gave my dagger dueling.
Hmmm... looking at it all again, the AoMF and the bodywrap do stack for unarmed/natural.
Congrats on the loophole, I will be stealing this for my PFS underfoot maneuver master, tripping/grappling a CR14 dragon at level 12 on anything but a roll of 1 in a single round is pretty sick. (imp grapple/gr grapple/rapid grapple/sweeping maneuver)
Ave Damage 232. Ave HP 214.
You sir, win.
Sounds like it would work with the courageous enchantment as well.
Put courageous on one and the enhancement on the other. Perhaps with furious added in.
Umbranus wrote: Sounds like it would work with the courageous enchantment as well.
Put courageous on one and the enhancement on the other. Perhaps with furious added in. [/QUOTE
I am definitely doing that. If I have a Courageous Furious Amulet, thats an extra 3 strength and constitution and +21 on grapple checks.
If you have an +4 courageous furious amulet yes, then it's +3. But that's very expensive. Courageous only gives half the enhancement bonus to existing murale bonuses.
Umbranus wrote: If you have an +4 courageous furious amulet yes, then it's +3. But that's very expensive. Courageous only gives half the enhancement bonus to existing murale bonuses. Body wraps for the enhancement bonus and amulet for courageous and furious. It would be a +4 bodywraps and a furious courageous amulet, resulting in a +6 overall.
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
