In my games over the years we've always considered it a staff (as in a weapon)
Which means you *could* enchant it using craft arms & armor as well as craft staff.
The craft staff feat doesn't say that you must use a stick of wood. I've got a fighter/cleric now (of Gorum) that is looking at making his Two Handed Sword a "staff".
Hope this helps.
I do not know if there is an official RAW answer to you question.
We have treated it as creator choice when crafting.
Specificaly, a character with the craft staff feat can make a magic staff our of a club, walking stick, cudgel, or quarterstaff.
i believe that RAW the only time a magic staff is a weapon, is when the description of the item says it is. for instance, the staff of power states that it is a +2 quarterstaff, and the staff of the heirophant has both ends enchanted to +2 as a double weapon.
so unless a staff's description says otherwise, it is just a walking stick or some other non-combat, large stick-like item.
i do not believe there is any RAW stating specifically what each magic staff's base item is (cudgel, walking stick, or quarterstaff). In the long run i don't see why you wouldn't consider most of them a normal, non-magic quarterstaff (since they are not enchanted as weapons, but are still a big stick)
and if i recall correctly, staff is one of the few weapons that EVERY character knows how to use.
"Cudgel" is another name for "club".
A Medium-size club deals 1d6 bludgeoning damage and can be thrown.
A Medium-size quarterstaff deals 1d6/1d6 bludgeoning damage and is a double weapon.
Both have no cost (they are effectively "free").
The hanbo (from the Adventurer's Armory) is a short staff often carved to look like a walking stick. It does 1d6 bludgeoning damage and costs 1gp.
As there is no equipment entry for "walking stick", I would point out the description of a quarterstaff from the prd:
"Quarterstaff: A quarterstaff is a simple piece of wood, about 5 feet in length."
As all these weapons are virtually identical, is seems that using the quarterstaff statistics would be fine. However, to enchant as a magical weapon would require that the quarterstaff be masterwork.
Pardon my rambling, but I do have a point. If a quarterstaff is a "simple piece of wood", and the magical staff entry indicates that it is "like a walking stick, quarterstaff, or cudgel", then the answer should be obvious.
A walking stick could be a quarterstaff or a club (or even a hanbo).
A cudgel is a club.
However, you want a "RAW" answer.
Here it is: Unless the specific staff entry states otherwise, the decision about how a staff can be used as a weapon is left to the GM (or player, if it is their character that is crafting the staff).
Typically, the answer should be club or quarterstaff. (BTW: A walking stick should be treated like a club.) It would not be masterwork.
In no case should it be an improvised weapon.
Remember: The designers of Pathfinder specifically want individual groups to come to their own decisions about certain things.
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I don't know about Weren's quote, but the CRB specifically states "A typical staff is like a walking stick, quarterstaff, or cudgel." RAW, any staff may be used as anything on that list, whichever is preferable to the character at any time. Some may argue the language "like a [object]" is not the same as "is a [object]", but since the only attributes of any of these objects which is further defined is the AC, hit points, hardness and break DC, it's fair to day the other attributes (damage, crit threat range and multiplier, double weapon, monk weapon, etc.) are unchanged unless a specific staff states otherwise.
Yea i have no idea where weren is getting that quote, i haven't been able to find anything official which mentions that, either in staves sections or magic item creations sections. maybe it is from somewhere obscure though.
all i can find is the quotes that have already been mentioned, which is basically up to the GM, or the person creating the magic staff.
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Similar does not mean interchangeable.
In this case it does. A magic staff functions identically to a non-magical walking stick, quarterstaff, or cudgel (club) in every regard other than AC, hit points, hardness and break DC. In any circumstance where the difference between a walking stick, quarterstaff or cudgel need be made, use whichever the player wishes at the time.
Sorry. It wasn't an exact quote, but instead it was the essence of everything that the developers have stated multiple times on the boards (You can hunt around for them if you want, but that's just tedious).
However, if you want some actual quotes:
Pathfinder Core Rulebook, page 9, first (and second) column, paragraph 3 states:
"The Most Important Rule
The rules in this book are here to help you breathe life into your characters and the world they explore. While they are designed to make your game easy and exciting, you might find that some of them do not suit the style of play that your gaming group enjoys. Remember that these rules are yours. You can change them to fit your needs. Most Game Masters have a number of "house rules" that they use in their games. The Game Master and players should always discuss any rules changes to make sure that everyone understands how the game will be played. Although the Game Master is the final arbiter of the rules, the Pathfinder RPG is a shared experience, and all of the players should contribute their thoughts when the rules are in doubt."
(Emphasis is mine)
Pathfinder Core Rulebook, page 396, first column, paragraph 5 states:
"Judge: The Game Master must be the arbiter of everything that occurs in the game. All rule books, including this one, are his tools, but his word is the law. He must not antagonize the players or work to impede their ability to enjoy the game, yet neither should he favor them and coddle them. He should be impartial, fair, and consistent in his administration of the rules."
(Emphasis is mine)
Remember, this is a game.
It shouldn't be about arguing "RAW this" or "RAI that". It should be about having fun! :D
If you need an actual ruling, have everyone hit the FAQ button. However, the developers have a lot on their hands, so it might be a while before they get to it.
Cheers!
Physical Description: A typical staff measures anywhere from 4 feet to 7 feet long and is 2 inches to 3 inches thick, weighing about 5 pounds. Most staves are wood, but an exotic few are bone, metal, or even glass. A staff often has a gem or some device at its tip or is shod in metal at one or both ends. Staves are often decorated with carvings or runes. A typical staff is like a walking stick, quarterstaff, or cudgel.
The RAW language above (quoted from the PRD) means that any given magical "staff" is going to vary in its statistics according to the way in which the GM has described it. If it is only 4 feet long, it cannot be a quarterstaff, unless it is a weapon sized for a Small character. It could, however, be a cudgel. Quarterstaves generally were sized above 6 feet, with 8 feet being common and some ranging up to 9.5 feet. See link below:
QUARTER-STAFF: A PRACTICAL MANUAL (1883)
Regardless of size, any item crafted for later enchantment is masterwork, but that does not automatically translate to a +1 to hit, as masterwork for a weapon costs 300 gp and masterwork for a tool costs only 50 gp. Even if the staff is the appropriate size and sturdiness for a weapon, if it were crafted as a tool rather than as a tool/weapon, it would get no special bonuses to hit. Further, unless it is one of the minority of magical staves that have listed bonuses to hit and damage, its magical properties are irrelevent to melee combat and it will not count as a magic weapon for purposes of DR.
Someone with both Craft Staff and Craft Arms and Armor would be needed to enchant a staff with non-melee charged abilities that was also a magical weapon.
I hope this was helpful.
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The RAW answer is what you quoted:
Physical Description: A typical staff measures anywhere from 4 feet to 7 feet long and is 2 inches to 3 inches thick, weighing about 5 pounds. Most staves are wood, but an exotic few are bone, metal, or even glass. A staff often has a gem or some device at its tip or is shod in metal at one or both ends. Staves are often decorated with carvings or runes. A typical staff is like a walking stick, quarterstaff, or cudgel. It has AC 7, 10 hit points, hardness 5, and a break DC of 24.
Any staff listed, unless is states otherwise, could be a walking stick, quarterstaff, or cudgel, and could be made out of wood, bone, metal, glass, etc. It is up to the creator of the staff, PC or NPC, to decide what material that staff is made of, and what kind of item it is (walking stick, quarterstaff, or cudgel).
For example, a staff of Frost is described as thus:
Tipped on either end with a glistening diamond, this rune-covered staff allows use of the following spells:
This could be a walking stick, cudgel, or a full quarterstaff size, ans since it does not state what it is made out of, it could be glass with the diamond at top, or silver, or gold, or brass, or wood, or.... (you get the idea). It is up to the staff creator to state what it looks like, within the rules of staffs.
(of course, now I keep seeing a staff of frost as a glass pimp cane with a big diamond on the top) :P
There is actually a whole school of combat regarding how to use a walking stick: la canne, developed in France during a period when it was far less safe for wellborn men to walk the street. It is now frequently incorporated into Savate, a French martial art that primarily emphasizes kicks.
The traditional Irish shillelagh was a club or cudgel that was ALSO a walking stick.
Any relatively straight and balanced stick created to be held in the hand that is not easily breakable should probably count as at least a simple weapon, as opposed to pieces of wood not designed to be held (such as chair legs or pieces of driftwood), which are more appropriate as improvised weapons. Belaying pins are a good example of something not made to be a weapon that should probably have no penalties in combat.
I treat it as a Club/Great Club unless otherwise specified (usually by myself).
@Zog: sorry but... what does it mean? I could fight at Chuck Norris with the chair I'm sitting on, if I'd train enough. This doesn't make my chair a simple weapon, when we are talking about rules. A walking stick CAN be a club, cudgel or even a quarterstaff, but it's not true that it MUST be those weapons. A weapon written in the weapons list is a simple/war/exotic weapon, a weapon not listed is an improvised weapon.
What I mean is just what I said. Any straight, balanced stick designed or highly suitable to be held in the hand should count as some sort of simple weapon. Clubs, stakes, and quarter staves are free. They don't even cost a single copper piece, unless they are masterwork. You are expected to be able to just pick them up or find them with minimal effort.
As an example, if you find a shovel, the blade makes it unbalanced enough that it should count as improvised. However, if you find a shovel handle not yet attached, you're in business. As one of my friends in martial arts is perhaps overfond of saying, the most ancient and mysterious of all martial arts weapons is "the stick".
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A bit of unofficial rules I use, more of a clarification really:
Any stick or length of wood functions as a club or quarterstaff with the fragile quality, and is of a size appropriate to its length. Any sturdy and balanced stick or length of wood is a club or quarterstaff of a size appropriate to its length. A stick or length of wood specifically crafted into a sturdy and balanced weapon is of masterwork quality. The type of weapon (club or quarterstaff) a stick or length of wood is depends on it's length and shape).
I pretty much consider all magical staffs to be a sturdy and balanced stick.
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Weel, I know that the stick and the staff are the basis of many martial arts; some of them consider it even better than a sword. So? We are talking about rules. I repeat it another time: I have no problem to consider it as a staff in my own game, but now I'm asking for a RAW answer. And RAW, if it's not called quarterstaff or club, it's not a simple weapon. The "0 cost" argument is not valid: no money doesn't mean no manifacturing.
We've already answered this question. The rules are very clear here. You are choosing the interpret them wrong.
The only reason a magic staff would not function like a walking stick, quarterstaff or cudgel is if it were not typical. Not typical means it says otherwise in its unique description. If it doesn't say otherwise, treat like a walking stick, quarterstaff or cudgel.