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I'm curious how many of you handle a certain situation at your tables. This has come up repeatedly in our area.
We have a player who comes to pretty much every game day session. Generally speaking, if it's a game, he's there. Said person embodies pretty much every single bad gamer stereotype there is. So much so, that it can be difficult to play with him. I have a hard time running games when he is playing, not only because he tends to be disruptive, which I can generally handle, but more so because it is physically difficult for me to look at him. He is often engaged in things that i really don't want to see at my table. Maybe occasionally, okay, but not for 2 four hour sessions.
Is there really anything to be done in a situation like this? Saying something to him is not really going to work I don't think, because you can't really change people's habits.
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You can and should say something ... If he's doing things that are "not ok" in normal mainstream society and you and others at the table are not ok with those actions. You have the right to speak up and say something, even if it is the middle of the game.
I would think just a simple "one more outburst/antic/whatever, and I will ask you to leave the table. That kind of behavor cannot be tolerate at our gaming tables anymore."
Then if he does it again, you have warned him and can ask him to leave the table. If you aren't the coordinator, might want to warn them ahead of time so they can be prepared for the antics.
One thing, it's not so much about chaning his habits ... it's about making him realize that his habits are not acceptable in public. He has to be willing to change them. Until then, keep warning and kicking
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You can and should say something ... If he's doing things that are "not ok" in normal mainstream society and you and others at the table are not ok with those actions. You have the right to speak up and say something, even if it is the middle of the game.
I would think just a simple "one more outburst/antic/whatever, and I will ask you to leave the table. That kind of behavor cannot be tolerate at our gaming tables anymore."
Then if he does it again, you have warned him and can ask him to leave the table. If you aren't the coordinator, might want to warn them ahead of time so they can be prepared for the antics.
One thing, it's not so much about chaning his habits ... it's about making him realize that his habits are not acceptable in public. He has to be willing to change them. Until then, keep warning and kicking
Heh. Well, you know, it's more that what he does is gross, and it's not necessarily something you don't see people do occasionally (and are also probably grossed out by it).For outbursts and such, I'm perfectly fine with telling people they have to calm down or will have to leave the table. But when you cross into social norms, that's when I feel like it gets grey.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I can see your point, Grolick. It's hard for one grown-up to tell another grown-up about basic hygiene or civility.
But, you know, it looks like somebody has to have the talk with the guy. "Jethro, you're pickin' boogers an' eatin' 'em at the table. That might fly in your own home, but not here. If you can keep that under control, you're welcome at my table. Elsewise, you ain't."
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It does present a sticky issue because of the public nature of gamedays. Grolick may not have the authority to dismiss the player, although the player may not know that. I suggest that prior to the "take him aside and talk to him" advice is attempted, Grolick has a conversation with the site manager or event coordinator. This person should be present when the problem player is spoken to, to drive home the point and ensure that the player doesn't interpret the issue as "Grolick doesn't like me". Sadly, this is like counseling an employee*. When a game begins to turn into work it's just not fun anymore. But if you don't try it, your choices become:
1) Live with it**
2) Don't volunteer at public events
*Handled poorly, this may result in the players organizing into a union. Contract talks may lead to setting an acceptable number of boogers which may be consumed per slot.
**Alcohol may be consumed prior to entering the store, or disguised in a soft drink container.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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If you're playing in a public venue, you should actually get the owner/manager of the venue involved. Let HIM know your concerns, and make sure to point them out. If that conversation gets a shrug and a, "Don't have a problem with it, man," then you're going to have to go with one of Doug's two choices from above.
If, however, the owner/manager is concerned about the venue's appeal to the general public, you can bet they will get involved. It's their job to deal with that stuff, not yours.
By the way, if you point out that the venue is bound to lose multiple players due to this guy, the choice will be pretty easy for management to make.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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**Alcohol may be consumed prior to entering the store, or disguised in a soft drink container.
I know he's kidding (I *hope* he's kidding), but I want to take this opportunity to point out that this is why so many stores have a "No Outside Food or Drink" rule. You all think that it's simple greed in making you buy the limited options they offer instead of allowing you to have whatever you want to bring in, but the reality is that little Timmy doesn't need to be exposed to Jethro getting blitzed.
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Thanks guys. I actually was approached by the employees of one store we play in about some of his hygiene issues, which I passed on to our VC. he supposedly said something to someone else about it, to pass on to the guy. it was kind of like a game of hot potato. It's kind of sad it's only one person.
And yes, I could stop running things at public events, but I enjoy running PFS scenarios, and I would like to keep doing so in a public place. Unless i know the players well, I don't run at my home anymore.
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It does present a sticky issue because of the public nature of gamedays. Grolick may not have the authority to dismiss the player, although the player may not know that. I suggest that prior to the "take him aside and talk to him" advice is attempted, Grolick has a conversation with the site manager or event coordinator. This person should be present when the problem player is spoken to, to drive home the point and ensure that the player doesn't interpret the issue as "Grolick doesn't like me". Sadly, this is like counseling an employee*. When a game begins to turn into work it's just not fun anymore. But if you don't try it, your choices become:
1) Live with it**
2) Don't volunteer at public events*Handled poorly, this may result in the players organizing into a union. Contract talks may lead to setting an acceptable number of boogers which may be consumed per slot.
**Alcohol may be consumed prior to entering the store, or disguised in a soft drink container.
Drunken DMing is reserved for games with Baird playing.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Hm. That's a turnaround. It sounds like the stores are blaming your group for bringing him into their venue. That's passing the buck, and is pretty silly for them to do.
I will stand by my statement: if the owner or manager doesn't want him there, he should go to that guy and tell him to shape up or not be allowed back in. Just because you guys are on the same page in terms of what you want doesn't make it any less the venue's responsibility. You, as a GM and player, have a pretty easy solution: stop coming in. If everyone exercises that option, the venue won't have any customers except this one dude. That means it's their problem, not yours (once again).
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The best way to handle this sort of situation is to confront the person in private and be honest about the issue. State the problem, the proposed solution, and the consequences should the issue not be resolved. He might get his feelings hurt but if you show respect when talking with him he will get over it.
I've had to have hygiene conversations with soldiers in the Army and employees at a civilian company. It is surprising how many people are so self-unaware when it comes to personal hygiene.
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The best advice I have is to simply talk to the player before the game. Without knowing more details it's difficult to give specific advice. Especially if the player is younger than you the "voice of maturity" can go a long way towards changing some behaviour.
"You know, farting every few minutes and laughing about it was funny when we were all ten years old but I need to tell you that it's causing most of the people to have a very negative impression of you when you do it now."
Stereotypes exist in part because they are often true. And the biggest stereotype about gamers is not rudeness, or bad hygiene, or lack of maturity, it's complete obliviousness to those and other qualities and how it affects others. One GM told me of a two-part scenario he ran on the third day of a con. Between the parts he quietly took one player aside and offered to let him use the shower in his hotel room. The player, mortified, replied that he had a room of his own but just didn't want to miss anything by taking the time to shower and didn't realize that the wrinkled noses at the table were because of him. The next session started with a newly cleaned up player.
And some players are aware. I personally talked to one player on a game day and said "look, you're offending people, talking over them, and making things generally not fun for them. And I know this is embarrassing but please don't lean into people to talk at them. Your breath is a little ripe right now." Believe it or not, he replied that he was trying to work on improving those things and thanked me for taking him aside. He asked me to let him know if I thought he stepped over the line again.
And some know and don't care. For the most part these are griefers who get their fun from making others suffer. Use your GM discretion to kick them from the table (or don't seat them at all). Some say "I'm not changing myself to suit others, they need to deal with it." Usually a reminder that this is a group entertainment event coupled with a warning that you have the right to refuse to GM for them is enough. Otherwise, sadly, that ban may have to be enforced.
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Yes, I was kidding Drogon :)
Grolick, I appreciate that you are in a difficult position. It is frustrating when something you enjoy is undermined by a single person. After taking a break I started organizing again, but rather than 'going public' I organized a private table at a store. By keeping it by invitation only, I could turn away unappealing players. You may consider doing that if this situation persists.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Yes, I was kidding Drogon :)
I figured. Thanks for confirming what I know, though: you're one of the good guys.
Grolick, I appreciate that you are in a difficult position. It is frustrating when something you enjoy is undermined by a single person. After taking a break I started organizing again, but rather than 'going public' I organized a private table at a store. By keeping it by invitation only, I could turn away unappealing players. You may consider doing that if this situation persists.
You know, if you make the event a "sign up ahead of time" event, and that's the only way to get a seat, you can pretty easily make nearly every game you organize a "private" event. Every coordinator out there has the right to refuse to seat players, be it because of personal hygiene issues or simply because you don't like how that guy plays the game.
Doug is certainly not wrong with this approach, but if you want to extend your group beyond your own table, taking sign ups ahead of time makes it pretty easy to toss the bad apples.
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I had to tell one guy that wearing a pc of burlap tied around your waist(with nothing else on underneath) was not proper attire. You will come to gaming properly dressed or you will not game at my table.
He has been properly dressed ever since.
If a person is really interested in playing, he will make the reasonable changes.
I'm not sure I even want to know how that even happened ...
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I'm not sure I even want to know how that even happened ...I had to tell one guy that wearing a pc of burlap tied around your waist(with nothing else on underneath) was not proper attire. You will come to gaming properly dressed or you will not game at my table.
He has been properly dressed ever since.
If a person is really interested in playing, he will make the reasonable changes.
I'm with you on that one. Seriously!
Send him back to preschool.
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I think the best course of action would be to talk to him privately and see if you can come to a compromise. Kicking him out should be the last resort, he should have the same opportunity to play as everyone else as long as he follows some basic rules.
No burping in peoples faces, showing up way way under dressed, or having an obvious unpleasant smell. Game table manners should include not being bossy to other players, keep their hands to themselves, not talking over others, and follow instructions given to them by you.
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It sounds like the solution is obvious. Just uninvite him. It also sounds like the VC and the store employees are in agreement, but no one wants to actually be the one to do it, thus this hot-potato dynamic you have going on, Grolick.
For some motivation, think of all the excellent players this guy has scared off. Is he worth the trade?
-Matt
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Be blunt. That's my advice. The store has already given you 'warnings' about his hygiene. Stating that you can't let him in unless he'll act more civil should be perfectly acceptable.
Long before PFS I had a player in a home campaign who had issues with hygiene. Eventually we, the other players, decided to drop him. He wasn't all that much fun either. Actually, he sounds quite like the stereotype you, Grolick, described. He was thin, though.
How many zits does this guy have available to pop during a session? There must be a time when runs out
