Goblin Squad Member
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As previously stated, the Bounty System is very easily exploited. I plan on exploiting it as well. If I have a bounty placed on my head, I'll be sure to get in contact with the Bounty Hunter, and offer to hand myself over nice and easy, for a cut. The only loser in that is the original victim.
They get the choice on who can collect the bounty. Some people will not accept your bribe. True professionals will not want to endanger their reputation that way. It's simply a matter of finding one such individual through a trustworthy source rather than picking one recommended by a random passerby.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So I think it's safe to assume that a lot of people are getting fed up with the bickering over the bounty system and whether it should be targeted at legitimate bandits, or just at the genuine griefers. So this is an attempt at a discussion about a way past the disagreements so that Goblinworks can stick to their current plan in a way that will work for all.
Actually, the only thing I am fed up with is YOU trying to organize a group of players to deliberately circumvent the in game mechanics to intentionally grief a select group of players who choose a playstyle that doesn't let you pursue banditry with zero consequence.
Using the argument that its ok to grief people who use the legitimate mechanics of the game in the exact manner they were intended because YOU don't like the result is and therefore it MUST be griefing because YOU don't like it is silly.
I could use the SAME argument, I don't like banditry (personally I could care less, but there is a point to be made), so even though its a perfectly valid play style as per GW, it MUST be griefing, because I don't like it, therefore we should set up a separate forum to organize groups to intentionally grief and harass bandits, in violation of GW's intent, because its ok to grief people who are using the in game mechanics in the way they were intended in a way I don't like...
My opinion is the same as it was the first time this was presented. Any player or players who form an organization with the intent to deliberately circumvent the in game systems to harass & grief another group of players who are using the in game mechanics IN THE MANNER THEY WERE INTENDED because they don't like the developers design intent need to be banned.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I could use the SAME argument, I don't like banditry (personally I could care less, but there is a point to be made), so even though its a perfectly valid play style as per GW, it MUST be griefing, because I don't like it, therefore we should set up a separate forum to organize groups to intentionally grief and harass bandits, in violation of GW's intent, because its ok to grief people who are using the in game mechanics in the way they were intended in a way I don't like...
lets be upfront here
It is unlikely many of the bandits in game will be griefers. Very few in fact.
However it seems highly likely almost all of the griefers will be bandits of some type.
Griefing assassins - maybe, griefing paladins - unlikely, griefing traders scamming noobs - on occasion, griefing bandits - pretty definitely.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My opinion is the same as it was the first time this was presented. Any player or players who form an organization with the intent to deliberately circumvent the in game systems to harass & grief another group of players who are using the in game mechanics IN THE MANNER THEY WERE INTENDED because they don't like the developers design intent need to be banned.
This is the real issue with allowing player bandits in a game at all. In the real world if you exploit those who cannot protect themselves, selling underage school girls for sex, peddling drugs at the school gate and invading the homes and stealing from the elderly there are real social consequences, and in a worst case scenario the locals will form a vigilante squad and kill you and you cannot just delete your character and start again in the real world.
In a game there is no deterrent whatsoever to being a total ass. Trying to track down and punish offenders is pointless and nothing can be done that will have any effect on the perpetrators at all.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've seen bounty exploitation in UO as well, it was pretty disgusting.
The victims put bounties down on players who wronged them.
The player would get one of his mates, or whoever, to kill him intentionally, and then when they receive the bounty of however many thousands of gold it was, they'd split the money.
So the bad guys actually made money off the victims as well, after having wronged them. The victim never knew any better unless they found out about the scheme.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't see the fuss about this. For me it seems an issue of alliances. Those who ally themselves with wrong people might find all kinds of trouble, but finding people you trust with high reputation to get the job done is something I want to see in PFO. If there are no such people to be found or you get screwd every time, I think PFO is a failure as a game, and has failed in one it's prime missions.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So I think it's safe to assume that a lot of people are getting fed up with the bickering over the bounty system and whether it should be targeted at legitimate bandits, or just at the genuine griefers. So this is an attempt at a discussion about a way past the disagreements so that Goblinworks can stick to their current plan in a way that will work for all.Actually, the only thing I am fed up with is YOU trying to organize a group of players to deliberately circumvent the in game mechanics to intentionally grief a select group of players who choose a playstyle that doesn't let you pursue banditry with zero consequence.
Using the argument that its ok to grief people who use the legitimate mechanics of the game in the exact manner they were intended because YOU don't like the result is and therefore it MUST be griefing because YOU don't like it is silly.
I could use the SAME argument, I don't like banditry (personally I could care less, but there is a point to be made), so even though its a perfectly valid play style as per GW, it MUST be griefing, because I don't like it, therefore we should set up a separate forum to organize groups to intentionally grief and harass bandits, in violation of GW's intent, because its ok to grief people who are using the in game mechanics in the way they were intended in a way I don't like...
My opinion is the same as it was the first time this was presented. Any player or players who form an organization with the intent to deliberately circumvent the in game systems to harass & grief another group of players who are using the in game mechanics IN THE MANNER THEY WERE INTENDED because they don't like the developers design intent need to be banned.
Ah, it's been a long time since I've heard from my frosty little fan.
Where are you getting that? Any of that? The group I belong to is strictly forbidden from any banditry or griefing.
This whole system is meant to deal with the exception: people who are using the in game mechanics in a manner other than what is intended. Looping the same money over and over on a bounty against someone who is not a legitimate griefer. If you read the blogs, that is not intended. It is a form of griefing.
Not the first time you specifically have grotesquely misrepresented my words though. Am I to assume it won't be the last either?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Actually, the only thing I am fed up with is YOU trying to organize a group of players to deliberately circumvent the in game mechanics to intentionally grief a select group of players who choose a playstyle that doesn't let you pursue banditry with zero consequence.
I hesitate to get into the middle of this, but it sounds like you might be getting Blaeringr and Bluddwolf mixed up. At least, it sounds to me like you're talking about Bluddwolf when you say he wants to "pursue banditry with zero consequence". Blaeringr has never really been into pursuing banditry at all...
Or maybe you know something I don't and are treating them like the same person for a reason :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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...nothing can be done that will have any effect on the perpetrators at all.
Hence the announcement that GMs will be arbitrarily and capriciously enforcing rules of behaviour that are carefully *not* written down, thus avoiding people skating just to the side of the line. There'll be no lines, but there'll be people enforcing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Actually, the only thing I am fed up with is YOU trying to organize a group of players to deliberately circumvent the in game mechanics to intentionally grief a select group of players who choose a playstyle that doesn't let you pursue banditry with zero consequence.I hesitate to get into the middle of this, but it sounds like you might be getting Blaeringr and Bluddwolf mixed up. At least, it sounds to me like you're talking about Bluddwolf when you say he wants to "pursue banditry with zero consequence". Blaeringr has never really been into pursuing banditry at all...
Or maybe you know something I don't and are treating them like the same person for a reason :)
Even that would be factually incorrect. I have never said zero consequences for banditry. I fully expect to have to deal with guards, bounty hunters, assassins, death curses, failure and even death.
Those are all pretty significant consequences for banditry. They are also all player driven consequences. It is there that we differ. You want game mechanics and player consequences. I believe that player consequences are enough.
Wasn't it GW that said, we shouldn't spend time programming something that the players can do for themselves?