Regeneration questions and more

[martryn]

Over the last couple of weeks, several questions have come up. As always, I've got to ask the board for clarification.

1. Does Regeneration prevent bleed? Is it considered magic healing, and therefore ends bleed effects?

2. What about a creature with regeneration and instant death spells, like Phantasmal Killer? Can something regenerate from dead?

3. If you knock a creature with regeneration unconscious, where do they start regenerating from? How far negative can they go? For example, you trap a troll in a whirling blade trap that damages it every round and then knock it unconscious. It sits there for a week and takes... 100,000 points of damage. Does it start regenerating at -100,000? Or should you use something like it's HP in negative numbers?

4. If a PC gets an ear bitten off, what would it take to regrow that lost ear?

5. Does innate telepathy bypass language barriers? If something only speaks abyssal, but can communicate telepathically, can it still communicate with creatures that don't speak abyssal? Can it communicate, telepathically, general notions and ideas?

6. If a creature has a breath weapon useable every x rounds, when do you start calculating x? Say it's every 1d4 rounds. Round one it uses it's breath weapon, and I roll a 1. Can it turn around and use it again round 2?

7. Can you ready an action to cast a spell as soon as a creature moves adjacent to you? Since your action takes place during that creature's turn, wouldn't that mean that creature couldn't make an AoO against you? Or do you split it's turn in two, so it would still get an AoO?

8. I asked this before, but forgot again... if a creature has the constrict ability, does it do constrict damage the very first turn it starts the grapple? Say a creature has a bite attack that deals damage and has grab. It hits, deals damage, then makes a Grapple check against the target's CMD. It succeeds. Would it immediately do constrict damage? Can a creature with constrict make a successful grapple check to move it's enemy and both move and constrict at the same time?

9. Say you target a creature with a climb speed with a Grease spell, and that creature is adjacent to a wall. Does that creature have to make a new Reflex save on his turn if he attempts to climb the non-greased wall?

[StabbittyDoom]

1. Regeneration doesn't state it, so no. The Ring of Regen does, but that's not the Regeneration ability.

2. The regeneration ability explicitly states that the creature *cannot* die while its regen is active. This means for any reason. The typical handling of death effects is to have it deal damage equal to the creatures maximum hit points + its negative death threshold (usually HP + con).

3. I don't believe this is stated anywhere, but most people assume the creature's HP can reach any arbitrary negative amount, then must regenerate from there.

4. Not explicitly defined.

5. The "Telepathy" monster ability allows talking with anything that possesses a language. So yes, it bypasses the language barrier.

6. Yes. You tick down such counters at the beginning of the initiative on which they started. If you roll a 1, you would be able to use it again the very next turn.

7. Yes, you can prepare a standard action cast the way you describe. However, AoOs can occur and be taken whether or not it's your turn. The caster you mention would provoke if they cast in that fashion, and the creature that's mid-turn would be able to take that AoO. This is essentially a freebie, and not considered part of their turn. Once it's resolved, they continue their turn.

8. It gets the damage any time it makes a successful grapple check, which includes the initial check to grapple someone. This also means an answer of "yes" to your second part, since moving the person would require a successful grapple check, which in turn automatically grants constrict damage.

9. No. On subsequent rounds, the creature makes a DC10 acrobatics check to move instead of a save. You only make the reflex save when the spell is first cast.

[martryn]

Thank you for the reply, SD. I was hoping for more of a rules interpretation than just a lot of stating RAW. A few comments to further clarify.

1. Should regeneration stop bleed damage? I'm not asking what the rules state or don't state. I'm asking for a RAI ruling. If the bleed damage is greater than the regeneration amount, and the creature goes unconscious, by your interpretation of my 3rd question, the creature could continue bleeding indefinitely. If someone came along and stopped the bleeding five years later, the creature would take years to regenerate. Seems silly.

4. How would you handle the regrowing of an ear?

5. What if a character used a hero point to act out of turn and cast a spell when a creature moved adjacent? That creature would still be able to make an AoO?

9. I meant Acrobatics check, not Reflex save, obviously. I was going off my notes, and didn't have the spell description in front of me. Would the creature have to make an acrobatics check if all he was doing was lifting himself out of his square using his climb speed to scale a wall?

[StabbittyDoom]

martryn wrote:

Thank you for the reply, SD. I was hoping for more of a rules interpretation than just a lot of stating RAW. A few comments to further clarify.

1. Should regeneration stop bleed damage? I'm not asking what the rules state or don't state. I'm asking for a RAI ruling. If the bleed damage is greater than the regeneration amount, and the creature goes unconscious, by your interpretation of my 3rd question, the creature could continue bleeding indefinitely. If someone came along and stopped the bleeding five years later, the creature would take years to regenerate. Seems silly.

4. How would you handle the regrowing of an ear?

5. What if a character used a hero point to act out of turn and cast a spell when a creature moved adjacent? That creature would still be able to make an AoO?

9. I meant Acrobatics check, not Reflex save, obviously. I was going off my notes, and didn't have the spell description in front of me. Would the creature have to make an acrobatics check if all he was doing was lifting himself out of his square using his climb speed to scale a wall?

1. Yes, it seems silly. I would probably house-rule that it does stop bleeding, which may be RAI anyway.

4. Well, since an ear isn't very big and doesn't have any hard tissue, I'd say it would regenerate in no more than a day, and more likely an hour, even for creatures with relatively weak regeneration (1-5 points). Something like an arm should probably take up to a week. A creature with tarrasque level regeneration might only take a few rounds to regenerate entire limbs, however.

5 (did you mean 7?). Yes. It doesn't matter how the character got the action that provokes or when it does so. If it provokes, an AoO can be taken. There are conditions that can prevent someone from taking AoOs, but I'm assuming the creature in your example does not have such a condition.

9. Yes. It doesn't matter where it is going, it is moving while in a greased area and thus needs to make the acrobatics check.

[Klarkash-Ton]

Regeneration and Dying

*disclaimer* I have not rooted about extensively on the message boards on this topic but I have read some posts and think I know the RAW pretty well. This seems to be the RAW on the topic, with my interpretation as glue 8^)

Regeneration(Ex){monstrous regeneration}
creatures with this ability "cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning".
Secondly, "Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature’s regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally."
So this means that if you drop a critter to negative HP+CON using an attack that is not regenerated, they die the FOLLOWING round, not the round they hit -(HP+CON) or below.
If you drop them with a damage type they can regenerate, they canot die. Now at -(HP+CON or below if you apply damage that stops their regeneration (or presumably they cannot regenerate) able damage, they die the FOLLOWING round.

This seems overly picky until you apply Fast Healing. This would lower the -(HP+CON) boundary to -(HP+CON+FastHeal) as they are going to Fast Heal that 1 round before death.

I'm assuming that death occurs at the end of their round on their initiative. After that it's a moot point, they're dead Jim.

In RAI/usualy play, Bleed damage is usually taken when the attack hits, then it "heals up" and the creature doesn't suffer bleeding afterwards. So in your hypothetical scenario unless you continually stick the regenerating creature it will stop bleeding (taking damage) except in a flavortext way.

This hails back to a troll in a box with a meat grinder attached. By RAW you have an inexhaustible supply of trollburger so long as you leave just a troll tip in the box. Most GMs at some point would say - OK - you've had your fun and the troll dies (mainly due to lack of nourishment on the trolls part). So things don't always go as RAW particularly where free lunches over a long period of gametime are concerned.

Regeneration Spell, Ring of Regeneration, Pearly White Spindle Ioun stone.
ahh yes - works a bit different than the above. Also probably the strongest argument as to why it's better to BE a monster than to imitate one using spells.
Heal 1 lethal and 1 non-lethal per round (no damage type stops it).
Immune to bleed damage.
Losing a limb, etc; 1r with limb, 2d10r without. HPs are NOT addressed in a per limb fashion.
"Regenerate(spell) also cures 4d8 points of damage + 1 point per caster level (maximum +35), rids the subject of exhaustion and fatigue, and eliminates all nonlethal damage the subject has taken."
The Ring description lowers the cure to 1&1 per round.
Exhaustion and Fatigue are not addressed and the Ring text directs the healing text to the limb only. So the Ring does not banish these conditions.

Onto the moment of death. Since this is as the regeneration spell - if you are dead there is no regeneration. But you can regenerate 1&1 per round and there is no damage type that can not be regenerated. Certainly a conundrum if you hit that old -(HP+CON) by damage.
The official line (appeal to authority) is that it IS NOT the same, and that you die at -(HP+CON).
Certainly a good argument could be made that at -(HP+CON) your regeneration goes off and that you die at the end of the following round.

Again, this seems overly picky until you apply Fast Healing. Assuming that death occurs at the end of the round on their initiative when at negative (HP+CON) {see Fast Healing, Breath of Life}. This would lower the -(HP+CON) boundary to -(HP+CON+FastHeal) as they are going to Fast Heal that 1 round before death.

As we are talking about death, Coup deGrace usually happen after a creature is unconscious and dying. So long as the creature has monstrous regeneration they just go more negative in HPs. The spell type would be susceptible to the failed save and then regeneration and such would cease.

[martryn]

The ear thing was a PC without regeneration. He just had his ear bit off through random critical hit card by a hyena, which, of course, ate the ear, so it cannot be recovered. How does that PC go about getting a new ear? Or is he earless for life?

[cwslyclgh]

martryn wrote:

The ear thing was a PC without regeneration. He just had his ear bit off through random critical hit card by a hyena, which, of course, ate the ear, so it cannot be recovered. How does that PC go about getting a new ear? Or is he earless for life?

the cleric/druid spell regenerate will restore it.

[Klarkash-Ton]

cwslyclgh wrote:

martryn wrote:

The ear thing was a PC without regeneration. He just had his ear bit off through random critical hit card by a hyena, which, of course, ate the ear, so it cannot be recovered. How does that PC go about getting a new ear? Or is he earless for life?

the cleric/druid spell regenerate will restore it.

correct-

my statement was more about regeneration and death.