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I liked the action in movie 1... But:
-The story was horrible.
-The science was too crazy even for Star Trek. (goo that makes black holes?!)
-It violated what we already know about the Star Trek universe.
-They blew up Vulcan...Far more bad than good.
Sadly it seems people who didn't like it are in the minority, so the new one should do just fine in the box office.
The bolder part caught my eye. How can anyone complain that it violated what was already known about Star Trek. Abram's used established Star Trek continuity to ALTER Star Trek continuity through the use of time travel and the much more scientifically plausible idea that changing an event in the past will change EVERYTHING to a lesser or greater extent.
As for the crazy black goo, well that is no more CRAZY than out of control grey goo...otherwise known as a nanoswarm. Read Michael Chrichton's novel PREY and take a look at the bibliography in the back.
Regardless of my counter picks, three of your reasons for disliking the revolt (story NOT being the exclusion) I have heard from others. Incidentally, after how Vulcan's were portrayed in the Enterprise TV show...I couldnot have been happier to see there planet kablooied.
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"That Genesis plan will never work."
Actually, with the destruction of Vulcan, I can see FSpock taking a good hard look at the Genesis project again.
And, since supposedly Carol Marcus is going to be in the new film (played by Alice Eve), Genesis may well feature in the plot, even if FSpock isn't involved.
That's actually a pretty brilliant observation!
I would not be at all surprised if this is indeed part of the plot. If Spock hears of Dr. Marcus's work, he would most certainly contact her about trying to recreate some sort of Vulcan copy. Kirk will probably meet her because she is working with Spock on this Vulcan Mark II project.
Save that Spock having learned first hand just how horrific a weapon Genesis could be would never do something this foolish. He would choose to go the far more sensible route of conventional terraforming. (Vulcanforming???) He would however be extremely leery of bringing in any more 24th century technology to the 23rd.
Spock is not Kirk, He's not going to mess further with the timeline just for the sake of a vanity project. Especially when there's no point. Making a planet into a cosmetic copy of Vulcan will do nothing to bring back the billions who perished. It would be the height of extreme irresponsibility to recreate Genesis for such a reason and neither Spock is that kind of person.
And then of course there is the kicker. Genesis doesn't work. David Marcus used protomatter to try to shortcut his way to the desired result so all the worlds that Genesis creates self destruct in a matter of weeks.
Are you talking about the older Spock (AKA Leonard Nemoy)? Although what you say is absolutely true, I'm actually referring to the younger Spock here. He would have no way of knowing that any of that (unless the older Spock is around to warn him I guess). The younger Spock would in theory simply learn about Carol Marcus' work and become intrigued enough to consider it. Plus, since this is a new timeline, there is nothing to say that this time around Dr. Marcus will go a different route and decide not to use protomatter.
Obviously all we are doing is speculating here, I just thought the idea sounded like an interesting and plausible sub plot :)
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I just thought of something.
** spoiler omitted **
They also cut a scene from Star trek where a masked 'Klingon' tries to get information from the Romulan Nero who apparently is vacationing on Rura pente with a plan to get some brain weevils to question Captain Pike with.
It occurs to me this might in fact be Cumberpatch playing the role of the Klingon infiltrator who looks human. The one who turns up in the 'trouble with tribbles' episode - poisoning the grain shipment.
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Are you talking about the older Spock (AKA Leonard Nemoy)? Although what you say is absolutely true, I'm actually referring to the younger Spock here. He would have no way of knowing that any of that (unless the older Spock is around to warn him I guess). The younger Spock would in theory simply learn about Carol Marcus' work and become intrigued enough to consider it. Plus, since this is a new timeline, there is nothing to say that this time around Dr. Marcus will go a different route and decide not to use protomatter.
That's the basic problem. Genesis doesn't work without protomatter. And Spock had nothing to do with Genesis when it was made so Young Spock isn't going to find out about it. I suspect that the two Spocks won't meet again, as I'm sure that Old Spock to be rather cautious about casual crossing of one's timeline. If he makes himself too much of an anomaly, the universe might well remove him.
I don't expect to see ANYTHING more from the original timeline. Thanks to both Nemo and Both Spocks, as well as Kir's actions, consider everything th at would have gone from this point to be erased in total, the old future completely unwritten. From now on, it's all new... an unexplored country. and that's the way it should be taken. We don't need old plots recycled, that's been done past death. What we need are completely new stories.
So basically We need Abrams to film 10 Star Trek Films in 2013 to flesh out the New Original Series...
I wonder what Abrams would do with Tribbles. Some all devouring species that gets by on cuteness. Those are not Hairs -those are Spines that break off in the body creating a neurotoxin that makes you see the cute little fur-ball and just want to cuddle it all the more. Given time they would make you give up any desire to resistance and simply die so they can eat you (explains the behavior of the crew in the episode - lethargic and cognitive imparement).
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So basically We need Abrams to film 10 Star Trek Films in 2013 to flesh out the New Original Series...
Why?
The original movies (6, not 10) EXPANDED on the Original Series... they didn't flesh it out. In fact I'd go so far as to say that 5 and 6 were more 'prequels' to TNG that was already airing at the time. Explaining how the klingons went from #1 enemy to sorta allies...
I wonder what Abrams would do with Tribbles. Some all devouring species that gets by on cuteness. Those are not Hairs -those are Spines that break off in the body creating a neurotoxin that makes you see the cute little fur-ball and just want to cuddle it all the more. Given time they would make you give up any desire to resistance and simply die so they can eat you (explains the behavior of the crew in the episode - lethargic and cognitive imparement).
Honestly, this is what I do NOT want... I do not WANT a reimagined tribbles or Khan, or VGER or any of that stuff.
Everything is changed now, Kirk has the ship earlier than he did originally therefore the whole timeline is skewed. He PROBABLY won't be in the right time at the right place for all those original adventures.
And I think that's awesome. It's time to see those original personality in some high octane action adventure.
Nothing could be more BORING then watching a crew of exploring adventurers 'redoing' things we already saw...
I think the fans of the 'original series' are going to be in some exciting places soon... There is a LOT of potential here.
Honestly, the ones I feel bad for are the fans of DS9, Voyager, and even TNG... Those timelines 'MAY' have been wiped too... I'm sure with the 100+ years between them, SOME of the major events will have righted themselves... But who knows. I don't see those properties ever getting revisted.
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So basically We need Abrams to film 10 Star Trek Films in 2013 to flesh out the New Original Series...Why?
The original movies (6, not 10) EXPANDED on the Original Series... they didn't flesh it out. In fact I'd go so far as to say that 5 and 6 were more 'prequels' to TNG that was already airing at the time. Explaining how the klingons went from #1 enemy to sorta allies...
I wonder what Abrams would do with Tribbles. Some all devouring species that gets by on cuteness. Those are not Hairs -those are Spines that break off in the body creating a neurotoxin that makes you see the cute little fur-ball and just want to cuddle it all the more. Given time they would make you give up any desire to resistance and simply die so they can eat you (explains the behavior of the crew in the episode - lethargic and cognitive imparement).Honestly, this is what I do NOT want... I do not WANT a reimagined tribbles or Khan, or VGER or any of that stuff.
Everything is changed now, Kirk has the ship earlier than he did originally therefore the whole timeline is skewed. He PROBABLY won't be in the right time at the right place for all those original adventures.
And I think that's awesome. It's time to see those original personality in some high octane action adventure.
Nothing could be more BORING then watching a crew of exploring adventurers 'redoing' things we already saw...
I think the fans of the 'original series' are going to be in some exciting places soon... There is a LOT of potential here.
Honestly, the ones I feel bad for are the fans of DS9, Voyager, and even TNG... Those timelines 'MAY' have been wiped too... I'm sure with the 100+ years between them, SOME of the major events will have righted themselves... But who knows. I don't see those properties ever getting revisted.
Ten Movies because I want to See this New 'Original Star Trek' Era on the big screen and not TV at 45 minutes an episode.
Because Kirk and Co. 'created' a Black Hole to destroy in this earlier period it will be like a nuclear flare to the Borg who may show up to investigate in the Kirk Era.
Because Kirk and Co. 'created' a Black Hole to destroy in this earlier period it will be like a nuclear flare to the Borg who may show up to investigate in the Kirk Era.
Why do we think they would even notice? They're way off in their own land of 'far far away'... Would they even be able to detect anything Kirk does over here?
They only even knew about this quadrant because Q alerted them and introduced them so much earlier then they should have been...
IF I'm remembering my TNG history...
O.o
Now... I think it'd be interesting to see the Q's take an interest in Time screw up... Put Spock on trial or something...
New... old... I'm not sure they'd even care WHAT spock answered for the death of vulcan :D
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Because Kirk and Co. 'created' a Black Hole to destroy in this earlier period it will be like a nuclear flare to the Borg who may show up to investigate in the Kirk Era.Why do we think they would even notice? They're way off in their own land of 'far far away'... Would they even be able to detect anything Kirk does over here?
They only even knew about this quadrant because Q alerted them and introduced them so much earlier then they should have been...
IF I'm remembering my TNG history...
O.o
Now... I think it'd be interesting to see the Q's take an interest in Time screw up... Put Spock on trial or something...
New... old... I'm not sure they'd even care WHAT spock answered for the death of vulcan :D
The BORG would spot the formation of a man-made black hole. That alone would be something they must assimilate. What is the Distance across the Galaxy? 100 light years? Assuming fifty light years to the edge of BORG space...The Invasion of the Alpha Quadrant could be What happens in STARTREK 10: KHAN OF THE BORG
The BORG would spot the formation of a man-made black hole. That alone would be something they must assimilate.
How?
Considering how hard it is to directly study a Black hole... I'm not sure what the physical and obvious difference is between a 'natural' black hole and a man made one.
Considering they haven't turned their attention towards that way yet... I'm uncertain what instruments they would have that would detect something like that... and recognize it for what it is...
Also....
WHY would they WANT a black hole maker? They're about 'assimilation'... not wholesale destruction. There are six billion Vulcans that the borg will NEVER be able to assimliate now. That makes them cry cyborg tears.
Now... Klingons, Romulans.. Ferengi... All the OTHER powers in the quadrant that the federation has a 'tenative' peace with?!??! THEY are close enough to KNOW what happened to Vulcan and that would scare the CRAP out of them. That goop is more vicious weapon than the Genesis project EVER was!
If THAT is never mentioned by them I will be EXTREMELY surprised. Borg?? Not really a consideration right now.
What I want to know is: How will two new black holes affect the surrounding systems?
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Depends on their mass. They are not different from any other mass object, except for when you enter their event horizon.
What I want to know is: How will two new black holes affect the surrounding systems?
Also, how long did the black holes actually last?
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What I want to know is: How will two new black holes affect the surrounding systems?
If you removed the Sun and instantly replaced it with an equal mass black hole, Earth would stay on the same orbital path its on now (though it would get dark and cold).
But if you created two black holes inside our solar system that were of sizes of the order of the Sun's size, you would create a completely new gravitational dynamic. Nothing would get sucked in unless it was in a decaying orbit or close enough that it became part of the accretion disk, but the orbits of all the planets and moons would certainly change.
Ternary systems are very hard to model unless each gravitational body (in this case Sun, black hole 1, black hole 2) are very different in size with one of them dominating the gravitational landscape (still a hard problem though). If all three are roughly the same the system will exhibit chaotic behavior and could be unstable and toss out the star or one of the black holes, and in some configurations the system may toss out a planet.
Stable ternary systems with planets have been observed though (See this article). In that article there are three stars, but it could happen with black holes as well.
That's interesting, thanks.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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Because Kirk and Co. 'created' a Black Hole to destroy in this earlier period it will be like a nuclear flare to the Borg who may show up to investigate in the Kirk Era.
Ugh. No. Please God No.
No more Borg. I've had enough Borg. The Borg bore me to no end.
Let's have something new. Or something old, but underused.
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Because Kirk and Co. 'created' a Black Hole to destroy in this earlier period it will be like a nuclear flare to the Borg who may show up to investigate in the Kirk Era.Ugh. No. Please God No.
No more Borg. I've had enough Borg. The Borg bore me to no end.
Let's have something new. Or something old, but underused.
TRIBBLE BORG?
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Because Kirk and Co. 'created' a Black Hole to destroy in this earlier period it will be like a nuclear flare to the Borg who may show up to investigate in the Kirk Era.Ugh. No. Please God No.
No more Borg. I've had enough Borg. The Borg bore me to no end.
Let's have something new. Or something old, but underused.
I wouldn't count on Borg appearing, since there's no guarantee that the Borg even exist in this new continuity.
And if there is a God and He loves me, there's no Q or Q-continuum either...
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Because Kirk and Co. 'created' a Black Hole to destroy in this earlier period it will be like a nuclear flare to the Borg who may show up to investigate in the Kirk Era.Ugh. No. Please God No.
No more Borg. I've had enough Borg. The Borg bore me to no end.
Let's have something new. Or something old, but underused.
I wouldn't count on Borg appearing, since there's no guarantee that the Borg even exist in this new continuity.
And if there is a God and He loves me, there's no Q or Q-continuum either...
'According to the Borg Queen, the species known as the Borg started out as normal lifeforms without any cybernetic enhancements thousands of centuries ago. Over the years, they evolved into a mixture of organic and artificial life. (Star Trek: First Contact; TNG: "Q Who") It is believed that the Borg originated in the Delta Quadrant, where they already existed in 1484. At that time, only a handful of solar systems had been assimilated by them and they had many encounters with a species who called themselves the Vaadwaur. (VOY: "Dragon's Teeth")' - wikistartrek
What I want to know is: How will two new black holes affect the surrounding systems?Also, how long did the black holes actually last?
Unlike Love, Black Holes and Herpes are forever. :p
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I wouldn't count on Borg appearing, since there's no guarantee that the Borg even exist in this new continuity.'According to the Borg Queen, the species known as the Borg started out as normal lifeforms without any cybernetic enhancements thousands of centuries ago. - wikistartrek
Kind of irrelevant. New continuity, remember? Anything the Borg Queen said decades years later might no longer be true.
And that's assuming Abrams knows or cares about that sort of detail.
Although surviving scraps of the Borg technology from Nero's ship might well result in the Borg suddenly appearing for the first time ever in this continuity...
Or not.
I got the impression that the villain was Q, but what do I know.
TRIBBLE BORG?Because Kirk and Co. 'created' a Black Hole to destroy in this earlier period it will be like a nuclear flare to the Borg who may show up to investigate in the Kirk Era.Ugh. No. Please God No.
No more Borg. I've had enough Borg. The Borg bore me to no end.
Let's have something new. Or something old, but underused.
My Star Trek Online character has a Borg Tribble...
I think it watches me at night, reporting my every move back to the collective. I would eliminate it... but it's SO darn cute I just can't.|
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Unlike Love, Black Holes and Herpes are forever. :pWhat I want to know is: How will two new black holes affect the surrounding systems?Also, how long did the black holes actually last?
Actually, according to Stephan Hawking black holes evaporate through a process called Hawking Radiation (really neat process). However, if the black hole has a temperature that is less than the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation temperature it will absorb more mass from the CMB than it will evaporate via Hawking radiation. If you do the math this translates to a black hole that is smaller than the moon.
So, unlike love, large black holes and herpes are forever.
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They only even knew about this quadrant because Q alerted them and introduced them so much earlier then they should have been...
IF I'm remembering my TNG history...
ENTERPRISE did retcon the Borg history a little. The idea that is that Archer's crew encountered a bunch of drones, who sent an SOS to Borg space. The Borg received that message some 200-odd years later and dispatched a scout ship which destroyed some Federation and Romulan bases along the Neutral Zone before returning home. A Borg cube in Sector J27 was then diverted to attack the Federation directly after it encountered the Enterprise in 2365 (in the episode 'Q Who?'), suggesting that the Federation might be a more important threat than had previously been thought.
The BORG would spot the formation of a man-made black hole. That alone would be something they must assimilate. What is the Distance across the Galaxy? 100 light years? Assuming fifty light years to the edge of BORG space...The Invasion of the Alpha Quadrant could be What happens in STARTREK 10: KHAN OF THE BORG
The Galaxy is 100,000 light-years across. Borg space is about 70,000 light-years from the Federation, based on STAR TREK: VOYAGER.
However, in STAR TREK it appears large-scale galactic events leave an impression that is instantly detectable in subspace, even if the light from the event is still tens of thousands of years from becoming visible. Vulcan turning into a black hole might not actually be detectable, since the mass of the star system has not changed.
Kind of irrelevant. New continuity, remember? Anything the Borg Queen said decades years later might no longer be true.
Actually, no. The new continuity takes over from the moment Nero's ship arrives in Federation space. Anything that came before that is still canon, most notably the entirety of STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE. That is confirmed when 'Admiral' Archer is mentioned in the Abrams movie.
So the Borg are around, since they were encountered in ENTERPRISE and even sent a slow message towards Borg space that was not expected to arrive for 200 years.
Whether they'll play any role in the Abramsverse is another question. I suspect not, as he seems to be limiting himself to 'classic series' material only at this point.
the BORG would spot the formation of a man-made black hole. That alone would be something they must assimilate. What is the Distance across the Galaxy? 100 light years? Assuming fifty light years to the edge of BORG space...The Invasion of the Alpha Quadrant could be What happens in STARTREK 10: KHAN OF THE BORG
Um, you're off by three zeroes on the estimated size of the Milky Way. It's estimated to be 100,000 - 120,000 light years, not 100.
<ninja'd by Werthead. That's what I get for not getting through the whole thread...>
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the BORG would spot the formation of a man-made black hole. That alone would be something they must assimilate. What is the Distance across the Galaxy? 100 light years? Assuming fifty light years to the edge of BORG space...The Invasion of the Alpha Quadrant could be What happens in STARTREK 10: KHAN OF THE BORGUm, you're off by three zeroes on the estimated size of the Milky Way. It's estimated to be 100,000 - 120,000 light years, not 100.
<ninja'd by Werthead. That's what I get for not getting through the whole thread...>
Perhaps I'm thinking about episode one of VOYAGER where it will take 75 years for Voyager to get home at maximum Warp...
So assuming it takes 75 years for The Slowest BORG ship to Reach the Federation in normal space...and they detected the man-made black hole. They can be at earth for STAR TREK 3 just in time to assimilate the Tribbles and become a real threat.
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VOYAGER established that the Borg had transwarp conduits allowing them to reach Earth in minutes even from the Delta Quadrant if they really wanted to. That said, I tend to dismiss VOYAGER as a non-canonical delusional fever dream at best.
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VOYAGER established that the Borg had transwarp conduits allowing them to reach Earth in minutes even from the Delta Quadrant if they really wanted to. That said, I tend to dismiss VOYAGER as a non-canonical delusional fever dream at best.
unfortunate. I liked voyager.
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VOYAGER established that the Borg had transwarp conduits allowing them to reach Earth in minutes even from the Delta Quadrant if they really wanted to. That said, I tend to dismiss VOYAGER as a non-canonical delusional fever dream at best.
I agree...I always thought the Events of Voyager were all a Brainwashing Program to convince the crews they had experienced these things - and it was all some secret plan by Section 31 to introduce highly advanced Technology into the Federation overnight...
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VOYAGER established that the Borg had transwarp conduits allowing them to reach Earth in minutes even from the Delta Quadrant if they really wanted to. That said, I tend to dismiss VOYAGER as a non-canonical delusional fever dream at best.I agree...I always thought the Events of Voyager were all a Brainwashing Program to convince the crews they had experienced these things - and it was all some secret plan by Section 31 to introduce highly advanced Technology into the Federation overnight...
There is a precedent for that kind of thinking about VOYAGER.
I've really got to find some time to watch DS9 and Voyager on Netflix one of these days.
Don't bother with the latter. It's really not good. But you can look for one episode called "Message in a Bottle", which I consider the best in the whole series, mainly because it's not set on Voyager at all, and only uses one of the characters, which is also the best one.
I always find it interesting how much I HATED the 'non-enterprise' shows... but at the same time, when I actually sat down and WATCHED them, There were 2-3 Awesome Characters in EVERY series that helped redeem it...
TOS: Kirk,spock,bones
TNG: Data, worf, Laforge
DS9: Odo,Bashier, quark
Voyager: Doctor, 7/9, and.. someone else, It's been too long.
So honestly As much as I hate the idea of Ds9 and Voyager... there were still quite a few things I enjoyed about them too.
It's really not good.What does that have to do with anything?
Just trying to save you time, and spare you the agony of watching that crap.
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DS9 rocked for being able to *really* explore and develop not just the main crew, but various 'NPC' and non-Starfleet characters like Garak, Odo and Quark. Heck, Quark's brother, nephew and mother (and the Grand Nagus and Liquidator Brunt) got more development than the average 'NPC' on the other shows. And the Bajoran and Cardassian cultures got a much more thorough treatment than anyone other than the Klingons and Vulcans.
I felt like Voyager was entirely focused on getting away from any such development. Oh look, here's some stuff about the Ocampa and the Kaizon Ogla, who, soon enough, we shall never see again...
My order of preference would be; DS9, Enterprise, the original series (warts and all), the Next Generation (which didn't, IMO, get really good until the later seasons, when they did stuff like 'the Inner Light') and finally Voyager.
I liked the cartoon series more than Voyager, though, so that's not saying much. (I am Tcharr! Heriditary Prince of the Skorr!)
I'd liked for them to have eventually tried for a 'Star Fleet Academy' series, set on Earth, with a heavily alien class (I'm a little bored with 99% of background crewmen being human, with the occasional Bolian.), if they were going to do another TV series, but I suspect that ship has long since sailed...
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I always find it interesting how much I HATED the 'non-enterprise' shows... but at the same time, when I actually sat down and WATCHED them, There were 2-3 Awesome Characters in EVERY series that helped redeem it...
TOS: Kirk,spock,bones
TNG: Data, worf, Laforge
DS9: Odo,Bashier, quark
Voyager: Doctor, 7/9, and.. someone else, It's been too long.So honestly As much as I hate the idea of Ds9 and Voyager... there were still quite a few things I enjoyed about them too.
Kes? Kes was awesome as the bad girl when her brain go took over by the Warlord and she started wearing Leather. I liked the episode where history is being rewritten by a museum curator where Janeway and Chakotay are leather glove wearing thugs who torture their victims.
For Me Message in a Bottle was interesting...perhaps even the in the top ten episodes. But I loved the BORG, BORG SPACE, The Scary aliens from Fluid Space before the Creators of the Show turned them Child Friendly...even 7 of 9 before she got 'Saved' by Janeway was awesome as full BORG.
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Kes? Kes was awesome [SNIP extraneous text]
Indeed. I liked the character of Kes way better than Seven of Borg, the hotness of Jeri Ryan and her in-your-face bosums notwithstanding.
I have no idea if the way Kes talked was the way Jennifer Lien (?) normally sounds, but that girl had a sexy sultry smoky voice. The kind of voice you would associate with a noir 'dangerous dame,' or Joan Jett, or something, not a sweet young alien 'nice girl.'
They'd already written themselves out of the seven-year-lifespan corner with the mention in the first few episodes that her metabolism had changed as she was 'adapting to space,' and the later reveal that a bunch of her people had gone into space and lived for a decade or more, but they seemed to abandon their own fix and retcon her into getting old faster than normal again. Puzzling that they would provide a solution for that 'problem' and then drop it (and her) so quickly.
I liked the episode where history is being rewritten by a museum curator where Janeway and Chakotay are leather glove wearing thugs who torture their victims.
Very much like the mirror universe episodes, that was one of my favorites as well. The bit where they capture some people and someone asks what to do with the survivors, and Janeway just nods to Seven of Nine and says, 'Assimilate them. You've been telling me you want some more drones...' Ooh. Chills!
Evil Janeway wasn't as naughty indulgent fun as Intendent Kira, from the DS9 mirror universe, or even as memorable as Spock-with-a-beard, but still fun!
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Some solid reality: Benedict Cumberbatch play the villainous John Harrison...so that kid walking down the road by the name of Johnny (Kirk's half brother) is the Villain this film.
Cumberbatch: "It's like he's the son in the first and the father in the second, almost, don't you think? Not as an actual father, though, that's not a storyline at all, but I mean that he's become a father to his crew."
So Kirk's personality is moving from 'an equal among equals' to 'Patriarch who makes decisions for the rest of the Clan'. That would be why 'Red Shirts' die in their hundreds. Bereft of the capacity to think things through - they are incapable of seeing sufficiently ahead to a point when they might be killed by their own actions or the actions of others.
Its why Black Holes wipe entire civilizations from existence - They are incapable of an alternate point of view capable of thinking for itself and thus coming up with a solution.
