Aqueous Orb Question

[VanRichten]

My question about Aqueous Orb says that those caught in it are entangled. If this is true and they gain the entangled condition does this mean they can just make a move action to get out of it by taking a move action. Which defies the later part of the spell saying that the target can make a reflex save to move to a random square out of the orb. So the question I have is does it gain the Entangled Condition and thus ignores the later part of the spell or does it by saying entangled is only a description not a condition and the later part apply?

[Michael Sayre]

Aqueous Orb:

Aqueous Orb

School conjuration (creation) [water]; Level druid 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, summoner 3

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V, S, M (a drop of water and a glass bead)

Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)

Effect 10-ft.-diameter sphere

Duration 1 round/level

Saving Throw Reflex negates; Spell Resistance no

You create a rolling sphere of churning water that can engulf those it strikes. The aqueous orb can move up to 30 feet per round, rolling over barriers less than 10 feet tall. It automatically quenches any nonmagical fires and functions as dispel magic against magical fires as long as those fires are size Large or less.

Any creature in the path of the aqueous orb takes 2d6 points of nonlethal damage. A successful Reflex save negates this damage, but a large or smaller creature that fails its save must make a second save or be engulfed by the aqueous orb and carried along with it. Engulfed creatures are immersed in water and must hold their breath unless capable of breathing water. They gain cover against attacks from outside the aqueous orb but are considered entangled by its churning currents, takes 2d6 points of nonlethal damage at the beginning of their turn each round they remain trapped. Creatures within the orb may attempt a new Reflex save each round to escape into a random square adjacent to the aqueous orb. The orb may hold one Large creature, 4 Medium, or 16 Small or smaller creatures within it.

The sphere moves as long as you actively direct it (a move action for you); otherwise, it merely stays at rest and churns in place. An aqueous orb stops if it moves outside the spell's range.

Entangled:

Entangled: The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) or lose the spell.

There's not actually anything in the Entangled condition that allows you to free yourself from it as a move action. You definitely need to succeed on that reflex saving throw (with a -2 since entangled gives you a -4 to your DEX) to escape the spell.

[VanRichten]

I agree with you but does the spell actually invoke the entangled condition is my question? Based on how it reads it does not. It is a description of what is happening to the targets by the spell but not saying they gain the entangled condition like the spell Entangle does.

[Ganryu]

I need this resolved as well.

The question is: Can you walk out of the sphere at half your speed?

[FrinkiacVII]

The final answer would have to come from your DM and his or her better judgement. As DM, I personally would rule that, going by the wording of "Entangled", the watery orb does constitute "tethered by an opposing force" in a broad sense and thus it DOES "prevent movement" at least voluntary movement of the orbed creature, at least until the creature makes a successful save to get out, following the rules in the spell. That would seem like the most fair interpretation to me.

[Dr Grecko]

I would say no. The escape condition is clearly defined in the spell as a reflex save. Plus, if you're caught in a swirling sphere of water, there really isn't anything for you to "walk" on to get out of it. A swim check would be more appropriate, but since the spell has an escape condition attached, I would go with that.

[FallenValkyrja]

In the Skull and Shackles campaign I am running the poor, unfortunate soul stays trapped until they either make their Reflex save or dies.

[Dr Grecko]

FallenValkyrja wrote:

In the Skull and Shackles campaign I am running the poor, unfortunate soul stays trapped until they either make their Reflex save or dies.

You'd be hard-pressed to kill anything with just an aqueous orb spell. 2d6 non-lethal damage is not a lot. Even with max damage at level 5 you will only deal 60 damage, which means you'll only be able to kill someone who has 30 or less HP. Using average damage numbers you're looking to kill someone with less than 17 HP.. and if that's your goal, there's more efficient ways to go about it.

Aqueous Orb is just a hilariously fun battlefield control spell, it should never be considered a way to "kill" anything.

[Suthainn]

Ganryu wrote:

I need this resolved as well.

The question is: Can you walk out of the sphere at half your speed?

Nope, the only way to escape the spell is as has been mentioned, clearly noted in the description.

Creatures within the orb may attempt a new Reflex save each round to escape into a random square adjacent to the aqueous orb.

I'm sure most GMs would allow a successful Dimenson Door, etc as well, but there's no way you can simply move out, presumably because it's as if you're inside a spin dryer and being whirled every which way.

[Nizari]

Along the same lines, what about characters who once inside do not try and escape but instead try and attack from inside the orb?

I was of the opinion of the spin drier/churning effect so you couldnt attack out as you were so messed up in the orb, but I'd like to garner opinions? Was that a bit harsh of me? Or a fair interpretation?

Just curious, thanks

[Mathius]

I see the benefit of the reflex save being that it does not use up your actions to escape the orb. I think it is reasonable to allow creature trapped in the orb a chance to escape if they want to use their actions that way.

I would not allow land to be used since your feet are not on land. According to the aquatic combat section whitewater rapids are DC 20 to swim as is a river fast enough to sweep you away. I would go with either a flat 20 or the spell DC.

Since you move at half speed due to entanglement and swimming quarters your speed as move action or halves if as a full round you will need a land speed of 40 to escape as a move action.

I would impose -5 penalty for each occupied hand as well.

A person who does not spend at least a move action swimming should suffer all the aquatic penalties as well as the entangled ones. That means no dex to AC, -4 to dex (treat as dex 6) and all creatures will have +2 to hit him. Also he suffers a -4 on attacks and does half damage(swim check allows piercing only). If they do swim the still suffer the entangled condition.

It may be reasonably to allow character to take -5 to swim at half instead of quarter as move action. Some one with a swim speed and swim skill of 10 more should be able to easily get out. If there is terrain (like trees) in the sphere as well I would let a person attempt to grapple it so that they will be dragged out of the sphere if it moves on. The DC of the spell should set the DC on this grapple check. Others should be able to use combat maneuvers to rescue others and should risk getting engulfed themselves unless they are using a something with reach or throwing a rope or something.