Fastball Special?


Rules Questions


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I've not seen anything in the rules about this one way or the other; and I know the people at Paizo actually read and respond to some of these threads, so here goes:

What are the rules/conventions for throwing another PC? In this circumstance, I ran a game where one of the characters was a halfling rogue. And when the halfling positively absolutely needs to get across the swampy clearing/behind the enemy overnight, it was a consensus to pick up and toss said halfling.

I generally did a Strength roll for the thrower, and a reflex save for the throw-ee... with an accepted ruling of a high Strength check by the thrower quite possibly throwing the halfling -too- far (in fact, this happened often, and the players loved it.. much laughter to be had).

Where do the designers and/or other GMs stand on this?


a halfling is an improvised weapon. Assuming that one can pick up and throw said halfling effictively (DMs call on strength score required) it's very little different than physically throwing a canonball.

Quote:

Improvised Weapons

Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

So in this case, if you're just trying to hit a square (AC 5) from a distance of say 50 feet (max distance for an improvised ranged weapon with a range of 10 feet), with a -10 penalty on the roll for 5 range increments. an additional -4 for it being an improvised weapon and you're attempting a ranged attack against an AC5 with a penalty of -14 on the roll from situational modifiers.

Now, we're left with 2 questions.

1. What happens if you miss? Personally, I'd argue that now we're best into territory covered by the 'thrown splash weapon' section of the rules. Halflings are of course similar to vials of acid in that they are a container for rather unpleasant substances.

Quote:
If you miss the target (whether aiming at a creature or a grid intersection), roll 1d8. This determines the misdirection of the throw, with 1 falling short (off-target in a straight line toward the thrower), and 2 through 8 rotating around the target creature or grid intersection in a clockwise direction. Then, count a number of squares in the indicated direction equal to the range increment of the throw. After you determine where the weapon landed, it deals splash damage to all creatures in that square and in all adjacent squares.

So if you miss by less than 5, I'd say the halfling goes into the square determined by the grid. More than that and he'd fall terribly short, making it a DM judgement call about where he lands.

Onto the only remaining question, which some people might consider the most important (ok, only one small person). What happens to the halfling?

Well, since since the halfling is travelling at a good clip, we'll just compare it to falling. He is falling after all, just not in the 100% correct direction.

The halfling 'falls' 50 feet straight forward and down onto his face, suffering 5d6 damage (reflex safe equal to throwers attack roll for half)

Tada.


Welp, this is something that's come up a few times in my game ( a Gnome in this case), and basically how it goes is this:

The person who's going to be thrown must be underneath the thrower's light load.

The thrower makes a DC 10 + X Str check to throw, with X being distance traveled (in 5 foot intervals). Failure results in the the toss either dropping the target at your feet at best or at worst drops the target somewhere between the target square and starting point (generally failure by 5 equals 5 less feet traveled, to keep things simple). I say worst since generally the throwee is getting tossed over a pit or upwards some distance so dropping them at the feet is preferable to dropping them in the 30 foot pit trap the first guy set off.

Throwee makes a reflex save DC equivalent to Str check made to throw) to land on his feet, failure means he lands prone, failure by more than 5 results in 10 foot's worth of falling damage for every 5 under par.

It sounds more complicated written out like that than it is.

Basically:

Thrower makes DC + X Str check, failure cuts distance traveled by 5 failure intervals.

Throwee makes Reflex save, takes fall damage equal to 10 foot per 5 failure, lesser failure results in prone position.

I think it's kinda mean to punish "success" (i.e. rolling too high results in too far of a toss + damage) so I don't take over-rolling into account. You could also add an AC 5 attack roll onto the target square as well, but anyone with the Str to toss someone like that is generally going to have an attack bonus of 5 just from that so it really only comes into play on Natural 1s for attacks.


You could also look to the 3.5 races of stone if you have it as it has a feat just for this to give you some res insight.

Grand Lodge

Talonhawke wrote:
You could also look to the 3.5 races of stone if you have it as it has a feat just for this to give you some res insight.

I remember the frightening picture for that feat.


Lol yep now I gotta break out the book and laugh when I get home.


In one campaign (2nd edition rules, btw, which we've been using until only recently), I played a dwarf fighter / priest that traveled with a half-giant archer. In most combat situations, she (and our other fighter, using a musket) would start firing at range, while I stayed back and start buffing the party (our drow scout would be hiding and maneuvering for sneaks). Once the enemies got close enough, I'd be thrown into battle.

Now, my guy wore heavily spiked armor associated with dwarven battleragers, complete with the foot-long "belly skewer" helmet spike. Our DM ruled that throwing me at a specific target (not target square) was basically like using a non-proficient thrown weapon. The damage was equal to the helmet spike, modified for the half-giant's Strength mod, and factored as if I was charging (i.e., double damage).

It was also ruled that as a living projectile, I'd still be able to attack on my own. This limited me to one attack per hand (he dual-wielded battleaxes), but I got the attack bonus as if charging, and the Strength-based damage modifier of both myself and the half-giant on those hits.

I also took falling damage equal to the distance that I was thrown. I'd also need a Tumbling check or I'd be prone upon landing. On a miss, I'd scatter like a grenade-like missile.

Now, if aiming at an empty square, it was ruled that I wouldn't be fast-balled (more like lobbed), so the falling damage was halved in that case. Same rules for scatter and tumble to avoid being prone at the end.

Eventually,it occurred to us that throwing me head-first at things couldn't be good for my spinal cord, so I reinforced my armor's neck joints and built a "locking mechanism" in, to lock the helmet rigidly in place. The half-giant eventually also took proficiency in dwarf-tossing.

In one memorable occasion, we were in a close-range encounter (underground, in a besieged dwarven stronghold), in which we opened a door and charged in, only to see a rank of troglodyte thralls and a beholder floating behind them. The half-giant won initiative, grabbed me (I locked my helmet), and proceeded to crit on the attack roll, followed by my own crits on my axe strikes. I literally flew through the beholder due to the massive amount of damage, forcing an immediate morale check on the trogs for "gruesome death of a leader" :D

So yea, we basically did what Weables said, with a little bit more oomph and detail.


Reminds me of the Ogre who dual-wielded Gnomes (dual wielding Kukris).


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Telekinetic Charge

The Exchange

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Wolverine:'Two words: Fastball Special. You know how it's done?'

She-Hulk: 'I've seen it before. Um... you usually do this move with a guy, right?'

Wolverine: 'Yeah, why?'

She-Hulk: 'Got a firm lil' butt there. You must work out.'

Wolverine: 'First rule about the "Fastball Special"... you don't talk about the "Fastball Special".'

She-Hulk Volume 2, #16

... I'd like to tell you how it's done... but Logan won't let me... ;)

Grand Lodge

Barbarian with the Hurling and Body Bludgeon Rage Powers would do this with ease.


I really do think we need rules for throwing creatures. Not just for getting allies across pits, but for grabbing enemies and then proceeding to throw them at the Wall of <Insert Dangerous Material>.

Dark Archive

I've taken the "throw anything" feat before, in order to throw party members more effectively.


Weables wrote:

a halfling is an improvised weapon. Assuming that one can pick up and throw said halfling effictively (DMs call on strength score required) it's very little different than physically throwing a canonball.

Quote:

Improvised Weapons

Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

So in this case, if you're just trying to hit a square (AC 5) from a distance of say 50 feet (max distance for an improvised ranged weapon with a range of 10 feet), with a -10 penalty on the roll for 5 range increments. an additional -4 for it being an improvised weapon and you're attempting a ranged attack against an AC5 with a penalty of -14 on the roll from situational modifiers.

Now, we're left with 2 questions.

1. What happens if you miss? Personally, I'd argue that now we're best into territory covered by the 'thrown splash weapon' section of the rules. Halflings are of course similar to vials of acid in that they are a container for rather unpleasant substances.

Quote:
If you miss the target (whether aiming at a creature or a grid intersection), roll 1d8. This determines the misdirection of the throw, with 1 falling short (off-target in a straight line toward the thrower), and 2 through 8 rotating around the target creature or grid intersection in a clockwise direction. Then, count a number of squares in the indicated direction equal to the range increment of the throw. After you determine where the weapon landed, it deals
...

In our game, it was a gnome druid as the improvised weapon, and she used a readied action to wild shape into a bear mid flight...

Would Acrobatics or profession Tumbler/Acrobat on the part of the Halfling and the thrower adjust anything? Since tumblers and acrobats often launch each other, it seems like there should be some synergy there.

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