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WBL=Wealth by Level.
Casting 9th level spells with scrolls is managable sure, but it has a cost, it is cumbersome without special items, uses your move action to get the scroll and your standard to cast the spell (without considering full round spells), you can't apply metamagic rods, you need to make a UMD check of 37, and will have a crappy save DC (may not be relevant).
I for one use many scrolls, but I choose them carefully for being either situational, not CL dependent, with an effect even when saved (or without save) and so on. The list grow really thin with all these.
I give most of my scrolls to my lyrakien familiar with a UMD skill of 32 (currently lvl 13). Mostly summons and backup plans, and I found that an arsenal of scrolls is quickly limited and/or inefficient.
That said, remember that OP stated he wants access to 9th lvl spells, and while a buffed juggernaut is something to consider, it doesn't fulfill this criteria, at least the way you did it. That is the main reason for all the flaming on this thread.
OP also said when fighting a wizard one have to assume a worst case scenario, and with access with 9th level spells this scenario is lose on first round. So you'll have to either be the one to make him lose first, or a way to prevent him from making you lose.
Also escape is not the only option to stay alive, a wizard has so many ways to prevent his death it makes GM cry :).
Wealth By Level, the guidelines for wealth (gear) characters are expected to have at certain levels in order to fulfill expectations on their power level.
Magus' Lingering Pain ability to make any one attack, including Spellstrike, to count it's damage as ongoing continuous damage (forcing Concentration checks) seems pretty damn useful to prevent a Caster from Casting. Combined with Kensai bonus to Init, and min-maxing DEX with Dervish Dance/Whip Master, and you're golden.
I never understood why people think that caster's are the best anti-casters. Exactly what can a caster do to stop another caster that any other class can't if they truly wanted to?
Gem of True Seeing
Wand of Glitterdust
Boots of Flying
Get creative from here and you'll find other combinations that work wonders.
A Dragon Disciple can already fly and has blindsense, so mix in Paladin levels for fantastic saves and more supernatural abilities, and I'm not sure what a mage can do that you can't counter except hide/run.
The rule of thumb for a successful hide/run is to be smarter and more prepared/faster than your enemy. The rule of thumb for countering an enemy that wants to hide/run is to be smarter and more prepared/faster than your enemy.
Also the Magus has great ways to do continuous damage and counter while closing the distance.
If you can pass saves and get your hands on a mage, you win. If you can prevent them from casting, you win. There's a million builds that can do this, and I don't see why a Wizard is particularly good at either.
Well, at the moment i am considering strongly a Fighter 1/Witch 5/EK 10. Thinking of doing the Still Spell+armor thing, since
1.) Hexes aren't affected by spell failure, and it would still be my primary debuff method and
2.) it opens up swift actions for Spell Critical, and Quickened spells and Arcane Strike, while still maintaining a decent physical defense. (AC, in this case.)Using this method also allows for effective action within an AMF, if necessary. (which i just realized may not be on the Witch spell list, have to check.)
In any case, the Strength Patron would make for a nice melee build. I might also go Half Elf, and do the Bonded Witch archetype. I would use this with the Ring option, for extra defensive spells every day.
I know this build does not provide 9th level spells but since your build gets them very late too and you seem to aim for a gish you might want to look at this:
Fighter 1/Crossblooded Sorcerer (Draconic/Sage) 4/RDD 8/EK 7
You will loose out 4 caster levels but end up with 16 BAB, +4 Str, +2 Con, +2 Int, +7 Natural Armor, Blindsense 30, Resist 10/- against one energy type, Base Saves: 11/6/8 (crossblooded included, before stats), and natural weapons.
Consider:
- Consider Eldrich Heritage for more Bloodline powers.
- Maybe tattooed sorcerer
- Robes of Arcane Heritage needed!
Pala2/Sorc3/DD8 would be a better base for such a build. Why would you go for sage?
You could go orc or something like pit-touched crossblooded. But I dont think crossblooded is worth it anyway.
Edit: natural weapons do less DPR than manufactured ones for these builds
Edit: natural weapons do less DPR than manufactured ones for these builds
True, but they come in handy if you need to go the "Antimagic Field" route. The bite is (Ex) after all and not only does 1 1/2 Str, but also adds 1d6 energy damage that would still work in the field.
When NOT in the Antimagic Field, I'm a fan of Quickened Intensified Empowered Shocking Grasp myself. You can Claw/Claw/Bite/Wing/Wing/Tail in Form of the Dragon and add a night cap of ~67 more damage. Manufactured Weapons aren't THAT far ahead when you think about it.
I agree with you on this, however in the context of this thread, the OP stated he wanted to make a mage-killing caster.
I've toyed with the idea of an EH (draconic) paladin 9/sorcerer 1/dragon disciple 10 built around natural attacks (would work in both dragon form and through the claws ability). You'd need a GM that would allow Multiattack and Imp. Natural Attack, but there's a lot that such a build would have going for it. The +4 Strength, +2 Con would certainly help out the paladin's tendency to suffer from MAD.
The OP also said that he/she could be convinced not to go full caster if somebody could prove it's worth, but I suppose I'm not putting in the full effort for that.
I made a build very similar to what you are saying, and by level 16 I was able to pull out 300 dmg/round easily enough. I'd almost suggest going more Sorcerer than Paladin mostly because you don't get as much from Paladin after level 3 for a natural attacker, but Sorcerer levels can keep you in the Form of the Dragon II/III range.
I'm not sure about this. The bite is (Ex), but states that you only get the bite when manifesting claws, which I believe are (Su). If so, it would seem to me that you can't manifest the bite in an AMF...
There are builds that people argue give permanent claws. I don't remember them, but they are in Osterik's guide. GM mileage may vary.
Pala2/Sorc3/DD8 would be a better base for such a build. Why would you go for sage?
You could go orc or something like pit-touched crossblooded. But I dont think crossblooded is worth it anyway.
Edit: natural weapons do less DPR than manufactured ones for these builds
I would not say that per se. Your build trades 1 Caster level and 1 feat for smite evil, +2 will save, and divine grace. Sounds good (even if 1 caster level is nothing to sneeze at), but don't forget you're buying the code of conduct too!
Int based casting has the benefit of more skill points and the RDD bonus to int (even if it comes late). Besides Cathulhu wanted int based casting.Are you sure about the DPR? I'm just curious, never did a calculation on that.
Yea, Im sure, a compared a lot of builds DPR wise.
And in addition to that natural attacks need more investment and still suffer a couple of disadvantages.
Yea, Im sure, a compared a lot of builds DPR wise.
And in addition to that natural attacks need more investment and still suffer a couple of disadvantages.
Thanks!
About the Crossblooded thing: I think Crossblooded is worth it because I don't like the Draconic bloodline powers and spells very much. Draconic and Sage/Arcane compliment each other quite well and the RDD offsets the spell known drawback (at least for mid levels in my build), while New Arcana offsets it for higher levels.
I don't think Serpentine's Natural AC would stack with Draconic/DD.
If you gain Claws by some other means, those Claws don't work to trigger DD's Bite attack, nor the Energy Damage.
Archer Fighter with Ranged Sunder and Spell Shatter can Full Attack Spell Sunders ignoring Miss Chance, etc.
Ranged Sunder is gained pretty early, so it could be fit into other builds as well.
yeah, DD could stack with Serpentine Armor, but it couldn't stack with Serpentine Armor AND normal Draconic BL Nat Armor. Or rather, Serpentine Nat Armor wont stack with Draconic BL Armor, DD will stack with whatever source of Nat Armor you want, though.
People had mentioned using DD Bite with Energy Damage along with Claws in an AMF, and that the Claws/Energy Damage is Su was mentioned as preventing that. Somebody mentioned getting all-day Claws from another source, which would work on it's own, but my point was that it would not enable the DD class features.
Serpentine Fangs/Bite would work in an AMF, but wouldn't have the Energy Damage of DD Claws/Bite in an AMF. Whether or not you could 'combine' both abilities outside of an AMF... I would say no, the abilties say 'you can grow claws/bite that does XYZ...' not 'your claw/bite attack(s) do XYZ... AND if you don't have claws/bite yet you can grow them'. Being able to grow a bite that does poison is a separate attack from growing a bite that does energy damage. If you have two heads, of course, you could have both, but not combine the effects into one bite attack.
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Being able to cast 9th level spells is overrated. Yes, they are the pinnacle of casting power, but again, I'm going to point to scrolls and UMD as an easy way of getting around the limitations of having full-casting. Any 9th level spell my PC needs is on a scroll, and he's not capable of failing the UMD check to cast it. I'm not trying to undermine the value of builds that cast 9th level spells, however there is value in going with a different build and supplementing your lack of spells with scrolls. Heck, even when I play straight casters I still drop a bundle on scrolls. I can only have so many spells memorized/known, and you can bet that any other spell I might conceivably need is going to be on a scroll. So I guess I've never really understood the mindset that just because a spell isn't on my list, I can't cast it. I guarantee you that if a spell is useful to my build, I'll find a way to cast it.Except your NOT a full caster. No 9th level spell = NOT A FULL CASTER. Hell you don't even get 8th so your just basically a SMIDGE above the 3/4 casters...which I can guarantee can out melee you.
That is a cop out and you know it. My fighters can "cast" 9th levels spells then and as such they are full casters too.
And the OP already said they were interested in a full caster...already dismissing the MUCH better magus and summoner options...who can ALSO USE UMD FOR SCROLLS. So yeah you can defend your build working well for you all you want, but it is neither the mechanically advantagous melee option (the magus and summoner wins on that count) nor the mechanically advanteous caster option (EK wins that one) or one that the OP even remotely asked for. Had your advice come up before the OP dismissed all the 3/4 casters (which your build is) then it would have been relivant to this discussion...as it stands you basically wasted about 50 messages to give advice that nobody asked for and then defended your actions as a valid advice.
Archer Fighter with Ranged Sunder + Shatter Spell + Eldritch Knight seems like a pretty nice combo for this purpose.
This thread got me thinking about how to make a full caster "anticaster". Now I'm wondering, are there any archer feats that allow me to counter/dispell spells with my shots?
/facepalm
yeah, shatter spell feat aka spell sunder. dispel only.
i and others had been discussing those, but i guess i didn't explicitly mention what they do: dispel shit.
Crafter?
So Master Craftsman.
Yowza...