The Knowledge (arcana) skill has many possible uses, including the following:
Task - DC
Identify auras while using detect magic - 15 + spell level
Identify a spell effect that is in place - 20 + spell level
Does this mean that if you have detect magic running and detect a spell (say, that an NPC has cast on themselves), then you get to make two free Knowledge (arcana) checks: one to determine the school, and one to determine the exact spell? If so, why is the former mentioned in the detect magic description, but not the latter?
The Knowledge (arcana) skill has many possible uses, including the following:
Does this mean that if you have detect magic running and detect a spell (say, that an NPC has cast on themselves), then you get to make two free Knowledge (arcana) checks: one to determine the school, and one to determine the exact spell? If so, why is the former mentioned in the detect magic description, but not the latter?
Task - DC
Identify auras while using detect magic - 15 + spell level
Identify a spell effect that is in place - 20 + spell level
A spell effect in place is something like visually seeing someone with multiple copies of themselves (mirror image). A continual flame is another 'spell effect in place'. Why this is such a hard check is beyond me.
Auras only relate to detect magic.
Edit: At least that is the way I have always run it.
Thanks for your input, Whale. I don't think that there's much difference between seeing a spell effect visually and detecting it using detect magic. The user of detect magic is naturally going to want to try to identify the spell that they've detected, and this seems like just what this use of Knowledge (arcana) is intended for.
What does anyone else think?
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You could identify the spell effect if it is visible. I often don't make them visible on some spells against my players.
Identifying the effect doesn't mean you identified the spell, that's what Spellcraft is for.
It's all rather slightly confusing tho, I admit.
Note that, having detect magic up and running doesn't mean much. You still need 3 rounds to concentrate on some ongoing spell effect, so getting some info after 3 rounds of waiting seems legit to me.
So, Malag, you're saying yes - you do get two free Knowledge (arcana) checks: one to determine the school, and one to determine the exact spell?
Detect magic is slow, I agree, but arcane sight isn't!
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there's another check to identify a spell as its being cast.
identifying the aura is for a spell that's in place to determine the school, either with detect magic or arcane sight. Not really relevant in combat. so it doesn't come up. but for determining what the aura of the magically trapped box is, when no other visible effect is in place: useful.
identifying a spell thats in place, like mirror image or something you can visually identify, 20 + spell level.
so you see, two different things. not usually used at the same time. if you know what spell it is from 20+ spell level, you already know the school of magic. however if you fail that one you have a chance to at least know the school of magic.
what's usually relevant is the spellcraft check ( 15 + spell level ) to identify the spell as its being cast.
so really over a combat. a wizard comes into a room w/ arcane sight up, knows there's a caster w/ magic items of various aura strengths and can make a free check for each aura of the magic item. if its a spell effect he can see, he can try to make a check to determine what spell. if not, he can at least try and determine aura only since he has arcane sight up. detect magic would be too slow in combat. then the BBEG casts something. the wizard fails his spellcraft check to identify it being cast. but its got a visible effect ( mirror image ), so he's able to make another check the next turn to determine the spell after that.
a lot of this is just glossed over with player knowledge if the gm is being descriptive enough.
its a little hastle to slow down the game for every aura. i mean, who goes around with permanent arcane sight anyhow. ;)
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Different situations.
Creepy guy is waving his fingers and making noises? Spellcraft check, DC 15+Spell Level.
Creepy guy appears to be about 2 feet away from his true location? Knowledge (Arcana) check, DC 20+Spell Level.
You cast Detect Magic, note the presence of a magical aura, then concentrate for a round, and learn there's just one aura and it's faint, then concentrate for another round to learn the aura is coming from Creepy guy? Knowledge (Arcana) check, DC 15+Spell Level.
Creepy guy is a level 3 cleric and he cast Displacement.
The first check was DC 18 (to identify it as it was cast), the second check was DC 23 (to identify it while it's in place), the third check was DC 18 (to determine the school of magic: illusion).
Tsk, all those checks for one spell might clog the game tho.
In practice, every GM I've ever played with has skipped right to a spellcraft check to just identify the spell or item or whatever. (Presumably to avoid having to look up which school of magic the thing uses)
Thanks - I agree with everything you guys have said. But I'm still not sure about the situation where a character has arcane sight running and encounters a creepy guy who has cast a protective spell on himself that have no visible effect. The PC will detect the existence of the spell with arcane sight, and can try to determine the school with a DC 15+ Knowledge (arcana) check. So far, so clear. But now the PC knows that there is a spell effect in place on the creepy guy - so surely they also get to make a DC 20+ Knowledge (arcana) check to identify the spell, whether or not they succeeded on the school check?
These checks take no in-game time, but sure would slow the game down, given that the creepy guy might have lots of spells running and/or magic items. Perhaps you could make a single check, with the level of success determining whether you determine just the school, or the actual spell?