Hi all. As the subject line suggests, I'm on the lookout for feats and items that synergize well with characters using natural weapons. Specifically, I'm playing a Tengu rogue who took the Claw Attack alternate racial trait so he has two claw and one beak attack.
I know about the awesome Multiattack feat in the Bestiary (alas, it's not legal for PFS play and this is a PFS character). What else should I consider for a tengue with a short sword in one hand but with his beak and other claw ready to go?
Thanks!
Weapon Focus, particularly if you have multiple attacks of one sort, like claws.
Amulet of mighty fists, but it's rather expensive.
I believe there is a feat in APG that let's natural attacks count as magic/cold iron/silver...
Thank you all!
Get rid of the weapon, get some levels barb for the gore attack while raging, stack up sneak attack and profit. Probably the best thing you can do. Ninja would be better though. Or Vivisectionist, but yes, its PFS:/
Dip nat atk ranger for improved natural attack and rending claws
Dip monk or unarmed fighter, take feral combat training, use the 'boar style' tree for bleed. Theres another good style but I forget...
Multiattack is useless if all your natural weapons are primary: you can use all primary natural weapons as a "full attack action" at full bab
Thanks! Can't really dip into other classes with this character for backstory/roleplaying reasons, but I appreciate the info.
I'm curious about what you have to say there about natural weapons, them being primary, and attacks with them being taken at full base attack bonus in full attack.
Here's a bit from the Core Rulebook, p. 182:
"You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls."
Now that I've pasted that in, I think what you're saying is that if I ONLY used the tengu's two claw attacks and his beak attack they would be at full base attack bonus. I think, though, it makes more sense to go with a weapon in his "on claw" and just throw in the other claw and the beak with the penalty when the occasion warrants. I rush to say that's purely a gut instinct, I have no idea whether the math bears me out on that.
Why should it be better to make one attack at full bonus and the other both at -5 than having 3 attacks at full bonus?
Its even worth if you just use the third last feat of the chain
Dip nat atk ranger for improved natural attack and rending claws
Dip monk or unarmed fighter, take feral combat training, use the 'boar style' tree for bleed. Theres another good style but I forget...
Multiattack is useless if all your natural weapons are primary: you can use all primary natural weapons as a "full attack action" at full bab
I'm not sure about that opinion on multiattack. Since natural attacks all become secondary if you are using a manufactured weapon, it can be useful. The reason to mix one weapon in is because of iteratives. Basically, combined, you can get up to five attacks at level 20, which would make it a much cheaper feat investment than TWF.
Obviously this is not useful until you start getting that many attacks, but it still can help if you are forced due to circumstances such as the need for special materials to get around DR. Good around those middle levels where you can't afford an Amulet of Mighty fists with a high enough enhancement to make your natural attacks count for DR.
Thanks! Can't really dip into other classes with this character for backstory/roleplaying reasons, but I appreciate the info.
I'm curious about what you have to say there about natural weapons, them being primary, and attacks with them being taken at full base attack bonus in full attack.
Now that I've pasted that in, I think what you're saying is that if I ONLY used the tengu's two claw attacks and his beak attack they would be at full base attack bonus. I think, though, it makes more sense to go with a weapon in his "on claw" and just throw in the other claw and the beak with the penalty when the occasion warrants. I rush to say that's purely a gut instinct, I have no idea whether the math bears me out on that.
That is correct, if you only use your natural attacks they are all made at your full bab. But if you also use a manufactured weapon, you lose the natural attack wielding the weapon (in this case a claw), and the others are made at full bab -5.
Now as for whether you should use a manufactured weapon together with natural attacks, you should ask yourself, why you want to use the two together, is it to bypass dr? is it for the extra attack(s)? Or possibly both.
If you know what type and how much dr the target has, you could weigh your options and decide if you would do more damage with a weapon to bypass dr (but have a lower chance to hit on your other attacks) or just go with your natural attacks and take the dr. If it's for the extra attack(s), I'd advise against it unless you have a good bonus to hit or would gain multiple iterative attacks (+11 bab or higher).
A rough example, say +6 bab and +5 to hit from other things (including flanking)
Only natural attacks - +11 on each natural attack (claw/claw/bite).
Weapon + natural attack - +11/+6 on the two weapon attacks, and +6 on the claw and bite.
So sure you gain an extra attack, and have the chance of doing more damage. But the likely hood of all 4 attacks hitting is pretty low. Unless the enemy has a low enough ac. I believe the feat John Templeton is referring to is Eldritch Claws.
If you want to increase the damage of your natural attacks, I'd avoid things that only increase the size of the damage die. Even if you can really pile them on, it's probably not the best use of resources. Improved Natural Attack increases the damage die of a natural attack by 1 step. So for a tengu whose bite and claws do 1d3 damage each, you're only looking at an average increase of 0.5 damage per attack, and you would need to take the feat twice to apply it to both your claws and bite. Then if you can increase the size again (such as enlarge person), you're only looking at an average increase of 1 damage per attack.
I'd suggest going for more static bonuses to damage such as power attack, or adding more dice to the attack with a weapon property. I think the cheapest way to improve a natural attack would be an Amulet of Mighty Fists with either the flame, frost or shock property (+1d6 fire/frost/electric damage to all natural attacks). Then when you can afford it you could get Deliquescent Gloves which would give your claws the corrosive property (+1d6 acid damage). There's also the Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes, but that would only apply to 1-2 attacks a round until the higher lvs.
If there's anything else to increase damage done with natural attacks, I'd like to know as well. I'm currently playing a natural attack mutagen based alchemist through the PFS retirement arc and wouldn't mind increasing my damage a bit more.