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Overall, my group immensely enjoyed this module. Here's what we liked, what we didn't like, what I changed, and why. Our group consists of five players using a 20 point buy. Here's where they started at in the module and where they ended up. See obituaries for details on deaths (There were two)
-Calcifer: Varisian Human Oracle(Life) 4----> 7
-Willem: Human Fighter (Scythe Specialist) 4----> 7
-Alucard: Dhampir Magus 4 ----> 7
-Aella: Human Barbarian 4----> 5, Deceased----Returned--->7
-Foxglove: Tiefling Rogue 4----> 6, Deceased
The Good
(1)Trial itself is Awesome: The amount of role playing present in this situation really allows players who enjoy such aspects of playing to really shine. Impassioned speeches were given, evidence was unveiled dramatically, and through it all the crowd gasped, booed, roared and otherwise gave voice to the overall feeling of unwarranted prejudice and superstitious thick-headedness that even a great city like Lepistatd possessed its elements of. The fact that two of my players had demi-human characters helped this sentiment to echo, if not also providing emotional resonance with the Beast. If done right, the Trial can be an extremely powerful scene of great role-playing. The mechanics for presenting evidence made for good role-playing. When Pett develops social scenarios for modules, he utterly rocks them (Sixfold Trial, Prince of Redhand, and Serpents of Scuttlecove come to mind in this regard).
(2)The Beast: The Beast has by far been my favorite NPC to role-play, especially if one does not treat him cartoonish and break into the whole, "Fire BAD!!" trope. Instead, I played him as a tormented, lonely soul, one who would occasionally use the wrong word or sentence structures but still able to convey a deeper meaning behind his words. Initially, I played him almost as if unmoving, as if he had formed a mental barrier against the torments of the townsfolk. It took several diplomacy checks to even get him to talk, and even then, it was like a captive who was expecting to be tortured again. Finally, the PCs got him to understand their intentions and even befriended them by the end of the module. Any time you can make players teary eyed during a session from the emotional impact of a scene is a sign that your being given the correct tools to create it. Good job, guys.
3)Vorstag and Grine's: I love dynamic fights, and the factory is a great setup for this. Three levels, hazardous terrain, plenty of mooks, callable reinforcements, and two horribly reprehensible villains behind it all make for one badass fight. Out of all the fights in this module, this is the best one. For one thing, it allows DMs to adjust for the difficulty of the fight, allowing them to add additional Mongrelfolk, alchemical equipment, the Juju Zombies, or both villians at once as needed. The pacing here is entirely up to the DM, with villains entering as required to heighten the tension. The environment itself is memorable, and I particularly like using Vorstag and Grine's array of abilities while requiring the PCs to navigate the room. Well designed encounter, and its a shame that a number of groups miss this because of character motivation (not ours). My only quibble is the Mongrelfolk; they don't possess Acrobatics, yet are able to somehow cross the wooden planks that they are supposed to fight on (in melee!). Behind the screen, I fudged this and treated them as if they had +4 to their normal checks due to being used to the conditions. Still, a number of them ended up in the acid vats..
(4) Good use of Horror Tropes: Frankenstein, Candyman, The Blair Witch Project all have hints of them, which help remind the players of the fear these things can represent without representing the fictional work itself. For my part, I sprinkled in a little bit of Children of the Corn in at Herstag, but more on that below.
Good Encounters:
-Vorstag and Grine's (See above)
-Golem Hound (I gave it scent)
-Ghasts (It should be noted that I gave them the Warren Digger feat from Classic Horrors Revisited so they could burst from the ground.)
-Faceless Flesh Golem (Extra flavor on 'ordinary' monsters is always awesome)
-Guardian of the Tower (Besides the Promethian, one of the few monsters that the PCs couldn't just stand toe to toe with and swing it out, that thing just does too much damage on a full attack to one person. Also, it went berserk during the fight, changing its orders from guarding the lower level to attacking the nearest living creature.)
-Aberrant Promethian Vs the Beast. (I gave the Promethian 3 rounds of foreshadowing, 3 round of "combat" vs the PCs, and then the Beast took over, with the PCs controlling him amidst the rain and thunder, with Alpon Caromarc yelling instructions at them over the storm like Doctor Emmett Brown. Very memorable fight, and a good climax to the module.)
Encounters that deserve special mention:
-Huge Air Elemental: Before running this, everyone should read the thread in this AP's forum of the same name. Depending on how you run it, you have the power to kill your entire party, which is a scary thing. In the interest of players actually having fun and story continuity, I decided to not slaughter my entire party but created a setup that made for one of the diciest encounters my players have faced. Air Elemental on the Bridge thread
-Erinyes: Again, this is another nasty one where you're probably going to kill at least one PC. 6th level parties just aren't ready for the firepower the Erinyes can dish out. I had two PC near deaths where instead of opting for her bow's x3 damage (avg 34 dmg) I told them I would not kill them outright and instead drew three cards from the critical hit deck, reducing it to double (with other effects). Fortunately, I possess an extremely creative party who tangelfoot bagged her to the bridge, cut the bridge,dropping her into the river (which didn't kill her) and then slugged it out until the duration of her summoning expired. Despite all this, this is not a bad encounter; this is one where the DM has a lot of abilities at their disposal so that if they don't want to outright kill a PC, they don't have to (You can use Fear and her rope if you want her to neutralize a threat in a quicker manner than her bow).
-Trolls: The biggest danger here is escalation. For my part, this was an awesome encounter because I had the trolls enter at different rounds. While I did change the map here to make everything almost double in size, the stairs and doorways remained 5' in width, forcing the trolls to spend extra time squeezing down to the main floor of the gatehouse. Thus, I had the the two trollhounds begin the fight, with the Advanced Troll hearing the noise on the third round and firing potshots with his crossbow. By then, they opened the gatehouse doors, with the two trolls beneath engaging. The leader continues shooting unless someone engages him (which happened in mine), or joins in three rounds if everyone enters the gatehouse. Finally, I thought the location of the final troll and trollhound a bit strange: they are barricaded from the gatehouse on the bridge, with no real way to get into the fight. I wasn't sure why they would just be stuck out there, especially considering the troll's appetites and the lack of food present. Also, why are there working fires in the main gatehouse if that's the one thing the Trolls fear? I didn't think trolls cooked their food, so I removed them. Instead, I placed all of the goblins on the bridge in the troll and hound's spot, as if the trolls were utilizing them to occasionally test the golem hound.
What we didn't like:
(1) Module's key information is scattered: While the overarching story is brilliant, the layout of the module is not. There is a lot of important times, places, and other pieces of information that are not put in a concise place. Details of the 'Beast's' activities at different locations are given in the locations themselves, but also towards the beginning of the module, and again during the trial. I occasionally had to spend several minutes looking frantically for a key piece of information that the players uncovered. Usually I am prepare to run a module by reviewing all the key information relevant to the adventure, but sometimes my players will ask questions to requiring referencing the module itself. Doing so here was difficult. When players ask how far away something is and how long its been there, I shouldn't have to consult two different sections of the module. An overall timeline of the module's events (including Herstag) would have been very helpful, as well as a bit more information on the various NPCs that the PCs are going to interview.
(2) Isn't this Ustalav?: I know its up to the DMs to do this, but as written, there's little to nothing given to help heighten the tension of the various treks the PCs must make along the road to Lepistatd and around its environments. While I never use the random encounter tables in the back, I thought that with the amount of traveling, there would at least be some traveling events described, let alone random weird sights for the players to see. There's a few things in 'Rule of Fear' to help detail this, but a lot of it represents the worst that can happen to a player as they journey, which doesn't always translate to horror. A sense of subtly is required to build the mood before unveiling something horrible, and if players get used to seeing overpowered creatures and locations (like the Saffron House or The Devil in Grey), they lose their sense of menace, let alone the logistical problems as to how a group of 4th-6th level PCs is supposed to face these kind of challenges that are far beyond them. Players like being able to affect things, and if all they do is run away from one thing to the next, the horrors become window dressing.
Bad Encounters:
-Second Golem Hound: So, someone has a factory making these things or what? I kind of have a problem with a few things here: 1) A unique creation like a golem shouldn't be the same as another of its kind, let alone possess the same body, appearance, and game statistics as another one. 2)Its location doesn't make sense. Why can't the trolls just range attack it to death? Why is the thing there if somebody could just shut the gatehouse doors and attack it from the towers? As written, there's nothing it can do against this tactic, yet the trolls (with a giant crossbow that can easily overcome its DR) won't do this? 3) The hound's tactics won't work. The AoO its going to incur for not having Improved Bull Rush will raise somebody's CMD high enough that it has to roll exceptionally well. My solution was to give it Improved Bull Rush, but its position caused a few of my players to scratch their heads.
-Leech Swarms: Where you encounter them doesn't make sense; Where the heck did they come from and why are they on the top of the Schloss? As I understood it, the Drowned Menagerie wasn't originally flooded, nor were its pit traps. The leeches obviously came in from the flood, but why are they all under the trip trap and not just swimming about? I don't think even Auren Vrood has a certificate in Leech handling, so there's no way the WW could have herded them into the pit trap. That alone is confusing, but what is so bad about this encounter is its destabilizing effect. Most likely, the leech will encompass 2-3 PCs, inflicting two kinds of ability damage and drain. That's right, Drain. At 6th level, where there has been no treasure that can remove Drain and PC's won't have the spellcasting capabilities to deal with it. Collectively, our group lost 15 points of Dexterity, forcing them to retreat back to Lepistattd. The two times my PCs returned to Lepistatd, it noticeably destroyed the tension and mood that had been building from the exploration of the castle. This encounter makes no sense, destabilizes the mood, and disrupts the party. I recommend removing it and adding four more Draugrs, who at least have to hit in combat to inflict level drain, can't fight all at once in a 10' hallway, and can't hit attack every PC at once. Stupid swarms...
What I changed and why:
Anyways, I removed the Manticore from the island, and added 2 Merrow and and their pet Hyrdra as replacements, which let me use the aspect of lurking aquatic horror (swamp thing and such) to re-emphasize the fear aspect of the game. I also changed the Blood Caiman into a very specific specimen of its kind, an advanced elite CR 5 version called old RedMaw so the PCs could identify the one who "bit the beast". This let me set up another encounter that reemphasized the aspect of lurking underwater monsters, and I had the Huge crocodile use his stealth against the PCs (which in the murky swamp and in the dark, had a prety good roll (+14). I then had him on the surprise round attempt to "swallow the boat", giving the PCs in a randomly selected boat a DC 15 reflex save to jump out as the crocodile destroys the boat. I then gave the crocodile a free grapple attempt at the PC that failed. (Cinematically, as if the crocodile comes from underneath, opens his giant maw, and attempts to snap the boat in two and swallow up anyone inside it. Freaked the players out). Once killed, it let the PCs take one of its teeth to match against the Beast's skin as a piece of minor evidence. Finally, I had the hoots and hollers of distant Marsh giants echo as the PCs rowed by the humanoid effigies that lead back from the island to the village. Since the PCs took their time exploring the entire island, it was well into dark when the last two encounters took place, furthering heightening the tension once Knowledge: Local rolls were made to identify the source of the calls.
-As the PCs journey toward the Schloss, I had the PCs see a Froghemoth battling it out with the Promethian at a distance. The Froghemoth is clearly losing to the monster, which gave my PCs pause.
-As the PCs near the gatehouse, I had the Beast appear, as if to accompany them through the Schloss. I then had the Promethian show up, and after a short dialogue (really a monologue since the Ab-Pro doesn't speak, just roar), the two of them are grappling end over end into the depths of the water. This let the PCs know that the thing they just saw is probably made by the same person as the Beast, the Count. (The Beast calls it 'Brother')
-Next, I Had the Promethian climb the cliffs while the PCs rested inside the manor house. I had him climb the central tower, up to the top where the lightning rod and Bondslave Thrall is. Eventually, he is struck by lightning and the damage from the fall begins to heal. No sign of the Beast as the Promethian eventually descends out of view.
-As the PCs explore the manor house and The Living Museum, I had signs of destruction evident throughout, as if something had gone on a rampage. This made it eerie when the PCs encountered Totenmasked-Caromarc, calmly sitting amidst the destruction, sipping his wine. I also had a massive hole in the side of the main Tower's monster prison (L2) to show the terrific force the Promethian was capable of.
-The Promethian finally took notice of the PCs as they rested amidst a massie thunderstorm. The Promethian attempts to climb up and perch precariously in some spot where it has to Balance (like on of the bridges) as it attempts to break inside whatever structure the PCs are in (in my case, the Manor house). This let the Promethian let loose some of its abilities like its Moan and Webs while the PCs attempted to damage it and knock it back into the abyss below. In my case, the rogue used her Ring of the Ram to eventually score a hit and knock him off the bridge, not to reappear until the final part, though its presence made the PCs nervous about resting anywhere in the castle
-While not visible again until the last part, I still had the lurking presence of the Ab-Pro. When my PCs left the Schloss to get healing back at Lepistatd for the Leech Swarms, they saw something strange when they returned; someone had taken the remains of the chopped up and burnt trolls and smashed them together into a dead pile that resembled a crude attempt at a golem. This made my PCs nervous about the thing lurking somewhere and jumping out to make their bodies into its personal effigy..
I sort of used the mob to further illustrate the forces that the PCs were up against and to foreshadow an encounter I will run at the beginning of "Broken Moon". The PCs were well ahead of the mob but after the fiasco with the Leech Swarms, were forced to return to town. I knew it would take probably 3 days of adventuring to clear the manor and I didn't want the angry mob interrupting the pacing of the dungeon, so decided to do something about them. Rather than getting to the Schloss, the PCs come upon the remains of the 50+ mob that had marched up the road. All of them are scattered as if they were all running from something, and all are missing their heads. When the PCs gathered some of the town guard to help them deal with burying and identifying the bodies of its citizens on the return trip, they found that all of the bodies had gotten up and walked away to the southeast, leaving an easy trail but not one the PCs wanted to follow. This made the PCs a little bit wary about running back and forth between the Schloss and Lepistatd and also lets me foreshadow the cause of the decapitations, a Dullahan I will use on the journey to the Ascanor Lodge. As for the newly created zombies and beheaded, I plan on utilizing them in the Shudderwood and Feldgrau.
Overall, this was a fun module to run, though I must admit that the second part (The Schloss) has to be one of the more difficult dungeons I've seen in a while. My group is usually pretty good at tactics, but tactics are meaningless against some of the monsters by nature of their sheer power, like the Erinyes and Air Elemental. However, my players like good fights and I feel that the fight's deadliness contributes to the feeling of what it means to fight against evil in a horror setting. The only real complaint it the overabundance of monsters with ability damage, drain, curses, and diseases present within the module. I feel that while these types of afflictions are valid in a horror game, but the overuse of them destabilizes the pacing of the adventure. If PCs feel incapable of adventuring because of taking too much ability damage, they are going to return to town, and this will happen repeatedly , regardless of any type of countdown you might put them on. Also, considering how light on treasure the module is, its sort of like salt in a wound when players have to spend what little they have on Restorations. Otherwise, I rate the module about an 8 out 10. Looking forward to running "Broken Moon"!!
Always interesting to read another group's run of an adventure. One major change I did was to make the Beast into an intelligent creature aware of its own inhuman unnatural nature. It was held by the guards only because it didn't see any reason to leave and that no one would care to listen to his story anyway. It was a lot of fun.
With that, the party assumed the trial was crooked and that the defense lawyer was bought off. They went to the various investigation points, did their thing, then let the Bard with the stupidly high diplomacy score sit at the trial and hand out the evidence. No one else even bothered attending the trial (this worked out alright since the bard player couldn't make one of our sessions during this phase).
They broke into V&G but went up the loading dock and came in through the second floor. The fight was a bit touch-and-go but they managed to lock down Grine and stayed away from the various vats. They did such a horrible thing to the first mongrelman to reach them (crit with high damage) that the rest ran. The fight was otherwise not notable.
Schloss Caromarc was interesting. The trolls were pushed down with little effort because most of my party is fire-attuned (inquisitor of sarenae, wizard, monk with flaming fists) and they trounced it with only one almost-death (the monk dropped to 3 HP). I made the building better for the troll sizes. Also changed the staff to one of Fire because no one wanted the swarming insect one (what's the point of treasure if no one wants it?)
The players saw the flesh golem hound at the gate, and the Beast of course, and pulled out the "making a flesh golem is an evil action" card (as per the definition of making a flesh golem). They immediately assumed that Caromarc was an evil man and should be killed because obvious he is in league with other evil like the Whispering Way. Sigh. Oh and the monk was bullrushed off the bridge but lived.
They ran away from the elemental by hiding in the building. I wish I had done the bit with the Totenmaske because that sounds fun. But no, they killed it while holding the door closed to keep out the elemental. Then they looted the magical items, killed everything they saw, and made it to the tower. Oh, and they used the goat-as-nightmare to escape the Erinyes without her killing anyone.
The museum was fun but the mummy and mimic didn't actually last long enough to hit anything (mummy was tripped while surrounded and then stood up... the AOOs of which killed it dead while the mimic was lit up like a torch). The drowned area was also easy because they went to the catwalks with fly and completely avoided the mushroom room.
So against the final tower... They peaked into the room, saw the Guardian, so they buffed outside. Haste, bard song, four lantern archons (two touch attacks for d6 each that ignores DR), aid. They rushed in, killed the Grillion in three rounds, then rushed up to the top of the tower ignoring all the drawings and hints about the apperatus because BUFF TIMERS ARE RUNNING OUT! Heh.
They got there. Summoned another pair of archons. Hit the Promethean with fire attacks so it couldn't full attack. Blasted it with lasers that ignored DR. Hammered it with baned/favorited enemy/precision/flaming sword/whatever other crazy abilities the inquisitor could pile onto his attacks. The AP almost killed the druid (he was within 2 damage of dieing and was being grappled when the AP bought it).
Then they noticed the Beast's unconscious body and went back to read notes and chalk drawings. Sigh.
Party of five level 7 players killed a CR 11 without losing a single person. In fact, the hardest fight in the entire adventure, by several steps, was the pit of ghouls that almost ate the monk. This excludes the air elemental and Erinyes traps because those aren't really meant to be won, just survived.
Overall I liked the adventure but it played out so very differently than your game, heh. We've been equally trouncing the 3rd book but I think they enjoyed the Lodge non-combat stuff more than they did the Trial investigations.
Thanks for this. My PCs are in the Living Museum, so your thoughts about the leeches and black pudding are very timely! It's funny, my PCs mostly managed to avoid the 3 big fights -- they avoided the trolls and air elemental by flying over to the manor, and they avoided the Erinyes by retreating to the manor (I didn't have her chase them inside).
Factoring in the Erinyes' teleportation, if played fully to the hilt I think she'd be a TPK every time. I'm not actually sure how your party managed to dump a flying and teleporting Erinyes into the river, since she could teleport out of the tanglefoot bag, but I would have been inclined as GM to be lenient on the party, so I might have just given it to them.
Anyhow, I'm super impressed by all the customization you did. Some great ideas. Especially the foreshadowing of the AP, which I'm a bit late for.
She couldn't teleport, as per the rules of Summon Monster. Even without that ability and her summoning taken away, she still is a powerhouse, and there's nothing from stopping her from pursuing PCs all through the Schloss. It was a very exciting fight for me because every die roll mattered, from save to attack roll.
Actually, both the Erinyes and the Air Elemental were Summoned Monsters. Which means they were only there for an extremely limited duration and couldn't move out of the area of effect of the summoning. So really, any players with the ability to realize that could just have outweighted them, so long as they had a GM that knew the rules.
What are the rules for the "area of effect of the summoning"? I assume the indicated range is the range for casting the spell -- that is, how far away a summoned monster can be made to appear. I don't read that as setting an area within which the summoned creature must remain. What am I missing?
And thanks, Rakshaka, for pointing out that summoned monsters can't teleport. I missed that.
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My experience of the module was very similar to yours, Rakshaka. I had three players -- Witch, Monk, and Rogue -- with relatively low combat capability.
My players loved the investigation, and they had a blast infiltrating Vorkstag and Grine by the witch bluffing like crazy pretending to be a potential customer (and also an expert on their "malfunctioning" flesh golem hound!).
The Schloss was excellent, but I had to change a lot. It would have been a TPK minefield for them. I let them Intimidate the trolls into leaving the Guardhouse, since I knew they wouldn't have stood a chance against them in combat (fun roleplay). I gave them a little help figuring out the air elemental trap, and I had the Erinyes leave them alone after they got across the bridge.
They actually almost died against the mummy and the mimic, after the monk got glued. I cut half of the encounters of the Drowned Menagerie just to shorten things up.
Sadly, the final battle with the Abberrant Promethean was a bit of an anticlimax for everybody but the Rogue (who rode around on the Nightmare Goat spraying the thing with fire as it tried to climb the tower).
Overall, I'd say this is probably the most fun AP chapter I've ever seen.
Trinite - I recommend focusing a lot more on your time in Ascanor and really build up the personalities and events. It sounds like your players would enjoy that place quite a bit; the intrigue and the suspicion.
However, if you run it as written, it is meant to end relatively quickly with minimal NPC involvement (though it certainly provides ideas on how to increase it). It can also provide you means to give a few NPCs to the players for the module's second half so they don't get eaten.
My party found investigation interesting, found the trial to be obviously corrupt, enjoyed Schloss Caromarc, agreed that it was a death trap, destroyed everything in there without too much trouble (except the summoned monsters, from which they ran).
Thanks, Overcast. I was able to find it. I'm GMing but I'm not super experienced in the system, so I do miss some details, because Pathfinder sure does have a lot of rules! (Which, on the whole, I really appreciate.) But so far I haven't missed anything critical...
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MurphysParadox:
We've actually already played through Broken Moon. My players enjoyed the Lodge a lot, but we found the werewolves to be a bit of a pushover. The player who had the monk swapped him out for a Save-or-Lose bard with Leadership and an optimized tanky fighter cohort. So I suddenly started having the opposite problems in combat.
Right now we're playing Skull & Shackles, but I really hope to go back to Carrion Crown soon for Part 4...
My monk smashes the crap out of the werewolves even with their DR. I fear for the poor guys now that monks can overcome silver DR starting at 7th (in case you missed it: monk rules update).
This is a great resource to use when I run the game