Hello all,
I have started in a PbP AP not very long ago, but unfortunately we have lost our "tank" for some reason.
Now, this was one of the first APs I ever applied to, and with a concept that I had enjoyed since the first time I read about it - the ranger switch hitter - we have not yet seen many combat, but from what I had experienced so far, the character has been quite enjoyable (I mean, it is hard not to enjoy a 2handed hitter with STR18 on level 1 :D)
In any case, after this character creation, I have had the opportunity to join in at least one more AP with another ranger (archer ranger) and so I managed to check other aspects of the ranger class itself.
Bottom line, since we have now lost our tank on the first campaign, and I am still level 1, I am planning on stepping up and playing the role of the tank with my ranger, by going 2wf style but with Sword and Shield. I am aware that this is perhaps not the MOST optimal option for a ranger, or for a tank for that matter, but in any case I would like to give it a try.
For that reason, I would like to have your opinion on how to build him from where he is right now, and if you believe he will able to be the frontliner for the group or not - check below:
Ranger 1
CG Medium Half-elf / Humanoid (Half-elf)
Init +2 ; Senses Perception +11
==DEFENSE==
AC 15, touch 12, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +2 dex)
hp 11 (1d10+1)
SR 0
Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +2
Armor Studded Leather, Light
==OFFENSE==
Spd 30 ft/x4
Melee Greatsword +5 (2d6+6) 19-20/x2
or
Ranged Composite Longbow +3 (1d8+1) 20/x3
==STATISTICS==
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 8
BAB +1, CMB +5, CMD +17
Feats Armor Proficiency (LIGHT / MEDIUM) (PFCR 118), Power Attack (PFCR 131), Shield Proficiency (PFCR 133), Skill Focus (Perception) (PFCR 134)
Traits Defender of the Society (Combat) (PFCh: FcGd 62), Magical Knack (Magic) (PFAPG 329), Exchange Agent (+1 on Animal Handling, extra language)
Keeping the following in mind:
- I have no issues with dipping another class that would combine nicely for the role intended (fighter for the feats? or Lore Warden to keep up the knowledges?);
- Even though the feat selection is not optimal at this moment, I don't think I have made any decisions that would break the new concept for him;
- I am ok with taking an Archetype that would improve the role, even though I have not selected one
Here's how he would follow up
Ranger 2
Init +2;
==DEFENSE==
AC 19, touch 13, flat-footed 17 (+5 armor, +1 shield, +2 dex)
hp 19 (2d10+4)
Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +2
Armor Scale Mail, Medium
Shield Light Steel Shield
==OFFENSE==
Spd 20 ft/x4
Melee Scimitar +6 (1d6+4) 18-20/x2
or
Melee Scimitar +4 (1d6+4) 18-20/x2 Two-Weapon Primary (lt. shield secondary)
Melee Light Shield +4 (1d3+2) 20/x2 Two-Weapon Secondary
==STATISTICS==
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 8
BAB +2, CMB +6, CMD +18
Feats Armor Proficiency (LIGHT / MEDIUM) (PFCR 118), Power Attack (PFCR 131), Shield Proficiency (PFCR 133), Two-Weapon Fighting (PFCR 136)
"
Ranger 3
Init +2;
==DEFENSE==
AC 19, touch 13, flat-footed 17 (+5 armor, +1 shield, +2 dex)
hp 26 (3d10+6)
SR 0
Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +3
Armor Scale Mail, Medium
Shield Light Steel Shield
==OFFENSE==
Spd 20 ft/x4
Melee Scimitar +7 (1d6+4) 18-20/x2
or
Melee Scimitar +5 (1d6+4) 18-20/x2 Two-Weapon Primary (lt. shield secondary)
Melee Light Shield +5 (1d3+2) 20/x2 Two-Weapon Secondary
or
Ranged Javelin +5 (1d6+4) 20/x2 Thrown
==STATISTICS==
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 8
BAB +3, CMB +7, CMD +19
Feats Armor Proficiency (LIGHT / MEDIUM) (PFCR 118), Endurance (PFCR 122), Improved Shield Bash (PFCR 128), Power Attack (PFCR 131), Shield Proficiency (PFCR 133), Two-Weapon Fighting (PFCR 136)
Any feedback is welcome - Thoughts?
Just to add to the logic from above:
#1: The idea would be to enhance his attacks by taking the 2w fighting combat style feats, allowing him decent damage with stuff like:
- Two Weapon Rend (Combat Style bonus Feat)
- Shield Master
- A teamwork feat like precise strike later on to use for example with my animal companion
#2: Maintain a ranged ability of sorts;
#3: Be able to cooperate with the group outside of combat (Stealth will be gimped, but we do have a ninja in the group)
#4: Make him a "sticky" like tank by following along the lines of
- Shield Slam
- Perhaps Step Up, Following Step and Step Up and Strike?
- Having an animal companion capable of performing maneuvers decently (Trip, or grapple, or...)
Boost Con and Dex, harder to hit and more hit points.
Less than 13 STR use Pirahna Strike + Weapon Finesse
Greater than 13 STR use Power Attack + Weapon Finesse
There's your Ranger "tank"
I agree, Weapon and Shield style. Either use a heavy shield two-handed, or TWF with shields (a heavy and light, switching to two heavies when you get Shield Master at 6). In either case, spiked shields and Bashing property once you can afford it. Shield Slam at 2 to free bullrush on every hit if you want to, and Shield Master at 6 to use the AC enhancement as a weapon enhancement and remove TWF penalties entirely.
Thank you Deyvantius and 666bender for the feedback so far.
The truth is that this character already exists and I have been playing with him, so I was trying to avoid actually redoing the character from scratch - I am trying to play the same one, adapting to a different role.
Mind you nothing of this is being imposed in any way - we simply lost a PbP player and I thought it interesting weaving that into the game itself, since I believe the ranger has the needed flexibility to adapt to the tank role.
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If you haven't leveled up to 2 yet, you can still pick your combat style. As others said, weapon and shield style is nice for shield mastery. I'd use a heavy shield in the main hand, and a light weapon (gladius?) in the off-hand. Its not as powerful as dual shields, but I'm one of those who think dual shields look silly.
Still you're not a great tank, with not many options to boost defenses. You'll probably want mithral full plate eventually, but you may want to consider wearing heavy armor until you get the second combat style feat. I think rangers only lose the combat style, but you'd have to pick up proficiency or multi-class for it.
Thank you all for the feedback so far people.
My logic for following the two weapon fighting style instead of the sword and shield is mainly one to give the best use to the high strength I already have, and bypassing somehow the DEX requirements for fighting with two weapons.
I agree that two shields is mechanically the most sound and effective option, but I cannot bring myself to use them - along the lines detailed by Scray, it feels...odd...
@666bender: Dipping into fighter seems to be a sound option mainly to address any possibly lacking feats, and the weapon training with shields is definitely something worth looking at. And the AC 28 at level 10 seems definitely quite decent :D
Something else I would like to ask you, what about archetypes - any suggestions that could perhaps add to the tanking role?
I agree, Weapon and Shield style. Either use a heavy shield two-handed, or TWF with shields (a heavy and light, switching to two heavies when you get Shield Master at 6). In either case, spiked shields and Bashing property once you can afford it. Shield Slam at 2 to free bullrush on every hit if you want to, and Shield Master at 6 to use the AC enhancement as a weapon enhancement and remove TWF penalties entirely.
I've had GM's say you can't two-hand a shield arguing shield-bashes are off-hand attacks, so check with your GM, cause some just say nope to that, and duel-shields.
Going twf path delay's shield-master, but if you spend your normal feats on shield feats, get Shield Master at 11, you can have low dex.
You won't get the AC of the S&B combat style, due to lack of fighter-only shield feats that S&B rangers get as bonus feats, you boost your shield bonus by 2, and you need high Dex for twf feats which further improves your AC.
But you get more damage with TWF style cause you boost STR
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I believe there's errata for the CRB that specifically removes the 'as an off-hand attack' from shield bash. I'm posting from a tablet, so its too much effort to post a link. :)
I'm a fan of Shield Master as a ranger combat style feat to get it 5 levels early because I'm running my char in PFS, likely limited to level 12. If I go past 12, I'll likely play another character. So at the levels I'm most interested in, shield master is more fun than the second extra off-hand attack from TWF. (The first TWF feat is available to weapon/shield combat style.) I might try to get the extra attack later with a normal feat, if I can boost dex high enough.
Still I think this path doesn't give many special defensive 'tanking' skills. I guess you may want to spend extra effort finding defensive magic items, spell storing mirror image or whatever, or defensive feats. At least you're a melee fighter with decent AC, so with a group of casters you'll be the tank by default, but I don't think ranger offers anything unique to make you more effective in the role.
I guess you want at least ranger 6 for the second combat style feat, but that also limits you to medium armor. Multi-classing is a real option, to pick up heavy armor prof for mithral full plate, but also for any class skills that might help you tank. Fighter feats, paladin charisma to saves, archetypes, I don't know what to advise specifically.