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The election results are in. Three states (Maine, Maryland, and Washington) had measures on the ballot to legalize gay marriage. One (Minnesota) had a measure to ban it. Wisconsin had an openly gay woman (Tammy Baldwin) running for Senate. Maine and Maryland legalized gay marriage. Washington has yet to finish counting all the votes, but the results counted so far lean towards legalization. Minnesota's effort to ban gay marriage failed. Tammy Baldwin got elected. This election is without a doubt the most inspiring thing I have yet to see in American politics.
Yep, now maybe they'll take another stab at ENDA. It'll never get past the Republicans in the House, but they should still push it. And with DADT repealed, maybe Obama will finally executive order it ok for trans peeps to serve in the military.
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It really is nice to be able to wake up knowing that the country actually got better last night, while also managing to not get worse.
The biggest loser of the 2012 elections is cynicism.
And with DADT repealed, maybe Obama will finally executive order it ok for trans peeps to serve in the military.
I would beg MEPS to let me enlist a second time if that happened. I would love to have a shot at ROTC while I'm in college.
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Hello, Mama Kelsey!
The Minnesota measure on the ballot was for an Amendment to the state's Constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman. While the measure failed, same-sex marriage remains illegal here.
The interesting thing about this is that the talking heads on TV are saying that this is the first time such an Amendment has failed to pass, breaking a 32-state "yes" streak.
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It really is nice to be able to wake up knowing that the country actually got better last night, while also managing to not get worse.
The biggest loser of the 2012 elections is cynicism.
Not really. I always thought that people, when allowed to directly vote on something, would do the right thing most of the time (gay marriage, the stupid war on drugs).
But the election last night did nothing to stop illegal wars or the erosion of the Bill of Rights and the advance of the police state on the Federal level.
Yay freedom!
Down with marriage!
Goblins do it in the street!
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Except that referendums on gay marriage have been failing up to now. That's been one of the big claims on the right: That it's all been liberal activist judges forcing gay marriage down American's throats. That when the people were allowed to speak they'd reject it. Which they have, until now. That's why these were so important.Not really. I always thought that people, when allowed to directly vote on something, would do the right thing most of the time (gay marriage, the stupid war on drugs).It really is nice to be able to wake up knowing that the country actually got better last night, while also managing to not get worse.
The biggest loser of the 2012 elections is cynicism.
You have to keep in mind that voters don't represent the population. A lot of people won't bother to vote on one issue on a referendum when the choices at the top of the ballot are horrible.
Put better people on the ballot and maybe more people will vote, and maybe more enlightened referendums will pass. Motivate, don't excoriate (which is all you guys did on the other thread).
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Not really. I always thought that people, when allowed to directly vote on something, would do the right thing most of the time (gay marriage, the stupid war on drugs).It really is nice to be able to wake up knowing that the country actually got better last night, while also managing to not get worse.
The biggest loser of the 2012 elections is cynicism.
History doesn't support that notion, unfortunately. You have to build popular support for changes like these; people don't automatically internalize that changing the way things have always been is sometimes the right thing to do.
As the President is fond of quoting, "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice."
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As the President is fond of quoting, "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice."
Was he describing the flight path of a drone strike?
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Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Yay, freedom of homosexuals to enter into the dreary, stultifying monotony of marriage!
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Sorry, married people.
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Ninja'd by Comrade HD
Was he describing the flight path of a drone strike?
I felt a little bad about laughing at this.
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Out here in Idaho, we had an openly gay woman running for Senate. She's been a state legislator for where I live for a while now, and has kicked ass all over the yard. Sadly, she lost, but a 30+% showing in a very conservative state is still pretty impressive.
As for all the other progressive successes nation-wide, I'm overjoyed. I hope to shake the claw of a Maine lobster sometime soon and thank them.
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I believe, and fervently hope, that we've turned the corner on LGBT tolerance, and that things only pick up speed from here.
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Was he describing the flight path of a drone strike?I felt a little bad about laughing at this.
Scott, trolling is no good if the troll-ee laughs!
I feel so...empty.
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AND Tammy Baldwin's vacated congressional seat was filled by an openly gay man, Mark Pocan.
It really is nice to be able to wake up knowing that the country actually got better last night, while also managing to not get worse.
The biggest loser of the 2012 elections is cynicism.
Not really. I always thought that people, when allowed to directly vote on something, would do the right thing most of the time (gay marriage, the stupid war on drugs).
But the election last night did nothing to stop illegal wars or the erosion of the Bill of Rights and the advance of the police state on the Federal level.
First of all, paranoia is passe this morning.
Secondly, baby steps. One election doesn't immediately cure all ills forever and ever, amen.
Good news is good news. A little better is better. Better is as better does, as a better man might be paraphrased.
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Washington has yet to finish counting all the votes, but the results counted so far lean towards legalization.
600,000 ballots to go, and it's very, very close. I'm biting my nails.
But onya, 3M! And hooray for Tammy Baldwin—I'm proud of you, WI!
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Always very educative to follow other countries elections and legislation., I'm glad to hear that WA is pro-gay marriage now! :)
Sorry, down here in racist, unenlightened Texas, we elected an openly lesbian and Democrat mayor in the city of Houston. In a year Republicans won big everywhere. Nice of you enlightened northerners to catch up.
That doesn't surprise me too much. Up here in Montana we have Tester and the city of Missoula.
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Please keep it civil, and be respectful, folks! Flag it and move on.
Sorry, down here in racist, unenlightened Texas, we elected an openly lesbian and Democrat mayor in the city of Houston. In a year Republicans won big everywhere. Nice of you enlightened northerners to catch up.That doesn't surprise me too much. Up here in Montana we have Tester and the city of Missoula.
I've never been there to stay any length of time, but I've passed through Missoula four or five times on various road trips. Always seemed, at least from an ignorant traveler spending one night at a chain hotel POV, like an awfully nice place.
I've never been there to stay any length of time, but I've passed through Missoula four or five times on various road trips. Always seemed, at least from an ignorant traveler spending one night at a chain hotel POV, like an awfully nice place.Sorry, down here in racist, unenlightened Texas, we elected an openly lesbian and Democrat mayor in the city of Houston. In a year Republicans won big everywhere. Nice of you enlightened northerners to catch up.That doesn't surprise me too much. Up here in Montana we have Tester and the city of Missoula.
It's very nice. It's a liberal college town, and is good at being simultaneously urban and rural, with easy access to the wilderness. I'm moving there after I finish Job Corps (I got accepted into the local university).
My favorite town in Montana is Bozeman, particularly durring the sweet pea festival. The nights are thrilling
I haven't been to Bozeman. My Montana experience is with Darby, Hamilton, and Missoula.
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I'm still not satisfied with the state of things:
- sexual orientation is still seen as a 0, 1, 2, or 3 category, when everyone knows it's an organic spectrum without arbitrary borders
- sexual interests continue to generate irrational social stigmas
- financial incentives are still attached to marriage
- same-sex couple adoption issues still exist
How many generations will this country have to cycle through before sex becomes a non-issue? As long as there's still a closet, baby steps are just bandages.
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I'm still not satisfied with the state of things:
- sexual orientation is still seen as a 0, 1, 2, or 3 category, when everyone knows it's an organic spectrum without arbitrary borders
- sexual interests continue to generate irrational social stigmas
- financial incentives are still attached to marriage
- same-sex couple adoption issues still exist
How many generations will this country have to cycle through before sex becomes a non-issue? As long as there's still a closet, baby steps are just bandages.
Watch out, if you express a desire to have humanity to catch up with being human, you get in trouble here.
Watch out, if you express a desire to have humanity to catch up with being human, you get in trouble here.
I believe you know that's not the problem, Derek -- the problem is the insulting way that you choose to express your disdain for pragmatism.
Would I like Obama to be more progressive? Yes I would. But the reality on Nov 6, 2012 was that either Romney or Obama was going to be elected. Acting rationally based on that constraint does not preclude working to ensure we get better/more choices in the future.
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I believe you know that's not the problem, Derek -- the problem is the insulting way that you choose to express your disdain for pragmatism.
Not to mention the belief that democracy works when everyone tries to get exactly what they want, instead of when people band together and compromise to accomplish common goals.
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That's incorrect - not everyone knows it, and it's not a fact. Sexuality is a a biological urge, while sexual orientation is more a social construct. I agree with you that no one is gay or straight, but rather fall on a continuum. Whether or not that's true, however, society doesn't really dig it. People categorize one another, and will always do so. It's just like if you have a black and white parent, much of society still considers you black. Is it technically correct? No, but in day-to-day life, the difference is irrelevant. Society decides who and what you are.sexual orientation is still seen as a 0, 1, 2, or 3 category, when everyone knows it's an organic spectrum without arbitrary borders
American (and Western) society is a bad joke. "Acceptable" society hides from reality behind blissful ignorance and identical suburban rental homes (none of us really own property, not really); it's become dead skin that simply won't rot off. The fact that people won't be honest with themselves is why I said "everyone knows", because everyone is aware of their own half-thoughts and restrained desires. Many would rather lie to themselves as they bully others than face their own issues.
As many generations as it takes. More importantly, baby steps are just bandages? Alright, than would you prefer to take no steps at all? Would you prefer no progress to some progress? Idealism is fine in an ideal world, but an ideal world this isn't. Civil liberty isn't something that can be forced on people - it has to come organically, and it takes time. Peeling back the layers of ignorance and injustice is a slow and painful process, but it is happening. Whether or not you are willing to be patient is entirely your choice.
How many generations will this country have to cycle through before sex becomes a non-issue? As long as there's still a closet, baby steps are just bandages.
Every transition is painful, but the quick and precise incisions hurt the least.
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No, Scott, my belief is that Corporations and their media lapdogs have created a system where we don't get any choice, and when the choices are "murder with theological BS" and "murder without theological BS", all just as long as the rich get richer and the poor get screwed, it really isn't a choice. You see gay marriage and reproductive rights as issues, I see them as more of a smokescreen to distract people from seeing that the government isn't about the "people", it's about the moneyed interests that somehow got a piece of paper that says "LLC" declared a human being.
That's the difference. You have faith that the system will work, I think it's hopelessly broken and we need a do-over. Whether that's through revolution, a new constitutional referendum, or our nation just fading into the sunset because we don't care enough for real change, whatever.
Stop thinking I think the system is supposed to suit me. The only thing I think is we shouldn't condone war with ideas (Terror, Drugs, whatever) because they do far more harm than good, and we shouldn't support people who do. Period.
Again, I leave that to you. Your "pragmatism" isn't going to save any more lives than my third party vote. Deal with it.
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That's incorrect - not everyone knows it, and it's not a fact. Sexuality is a a biological urge, while sexual orientation is more a social construct. I agree with you that no one is gay or straight, but rather fall on a continuum. Whether or not that's true, however, society doesn't really dig it. People categorize one another, and will always do so. It's just like if you have a black and white parent, much of society still considers you black. Is it technically correct? No, but in day-to-day life, the difference is irrelevant. Society decides who and what you are.sexual orientation is still seen as a 0, 1, 2, or 3 category, when everyone knows it's an organic spectrum without arbitrary borders
American (and Western) society is a bad joke. "Acceptable" society hides from reality behind blissful ignorance and identical suburban rental homes (none of us really own property, not really); it's become dead skin that simply won't rot off. The fact that people won't be honest with themselves is why I said "everyone knows", because everyone is aware of their own half-thoughts and restrained desires. Many would rather lie to themselves as they bully others than face their own issues.
...As many generations as it takes. More importantly, baby steps are just bandages? Alright, than would you prefer to take no steps at all? Would you prefer no progress to some progress? Idealism is fine in an ideal world, but an ideal world this isn't. Civil liberty isn't something that can be forced on people - it has to come organically, and it takes time. Peeling back the layers of ignorance and injustice is a slow and painful process, but it is happening. Whether or not you are willing to be patient is entirely your
How many generations will this country have to cycle through before sex becomes a non-issue? As long as there's still a closet, baby steps are just bandages.
I like you.
As a citizen on Minnesota I was unbelievably cheerful this morning after I awoke to find out that we voted no to both constitutionally banning gay marriage and requiring ID for voters (I have a 91 year old grandmother who would be sorely inconvenienced by a solution to a problem that is largely nonexistent).
Maybe the next step will be to removing the legislature that still bans gay marriage and actually allow those friends of mine who are to vote.
In the end I agree with your philosophy and many of your points. But I'm pragmatic about this as well. You can't force people to agree with you - you can either kill them (NOT RECOMMENDED) or work with them. We're social animals, and that's how we've gotten this far.
I worry that once individual minorities are treated as human beings rather than bogeymen, the anger and attention to legislation will die down. If people become easily pacified, many will ignore existing issues and the glaring problems with the modern world (Wall Street's continued existence, MPAA/media lobbyists, corporate overseas banking accounts, etc.) will need new distractions to hide behind.
In case I seem too accomodating of other people's ignorance, I need to say one thing. I take an unhealthy amount of pleasure knowing how much rage, frustration, and dismay this is causing to homophobes. Like borderline orgasmic. It's a good day : )
I can't take any pleasure in it, because of the fact that the rage, frustration, and dismay are manufactured by either political party for their own purposes. The cynicist in me cannot see beyond the fact that we're all being used as chess pieces against our will.