Grappling in Pathfinder

[daedel, el azote]

hi all,

I have just been reading grapple rules and there's something I cannot quite understand: the actions you can make when winning a grapple check, i.e. move, damage, pin or tie-up, can only be performed if you are the active grappler? (the one that started the grapple). So, if the other combatant wants to perform one of this actions, he has to beat the previous grappler in a check and then become the active grapple himself?

I am a little bit confused about this...

[Corren28]

Correct. This can actually go back and forth. Take two characters who both have a high CMB but low CMD. PC A grapples PC B and wins. PC A controls the grapple. On PC B's turn they get to roll a CMB check. He beats PC A's CMD and is now in control of the grapple. He has the option of either breaking the grapple and acting normally or maintaining control of the grapple and taking one of the actions you mentioned.

Disclaimer: I didn't actually look the specifics up before I posted so please don't take this as RAW as far as action costs and abilities go. I'm simply confirming you have the right idea. I don't know off the top of my head if maintaining a grapple is a standard action, move action, if you can maintain and still take your full turn, etc.

[Skylancer4]

Read 'grappled' again. Someone who is 'grappled' (on the receiving end) can still make a full round attack with the conditions and penalties for being grappled. The only one locked out of actions is the 'grappler.'

[Corren28]

The grappler isn't locked out of actions. They're subject to the same penalties as the person they're grappling, they simply have more options because they're in control of the grapple.

[Skylancer4]

Corren28 wrote:

The grappler isn't locked out of actions. They're subject to the same penalties as the person they're grappling, they simply have more options because they're in control of the grapple.

You and I have a differing opinion of locked out then. A grappler has a reduced list of what they can do, what is listed in grappling. Someone who is grappled can pretty much do anything they want except move. In that respect the person in control of the grapple has fewer options available than the person grappled does.

[Veldebrand]

Up to the point that they have to maintain as a standard action. If you have greater grapple, maneuver master monk, or something else where you can maintain your grapple outside of your standard action, you can do whatever is allowed from just having the grappled condition.

[Skylancer4]

I agree, but the OP didn't have any of those mentioned and stated they were confused with grappling rules (seemingly the base rules being mentioned). My response was limited to the points in question by the OP.

[Corren28]

Technically speaking the grappler has the same options his target does as far as actions are concerned. I see what you're saying, though, in that the grappler needs to expend their standard action to maintain and therefor cannot act otherwise.

They could always take the -20 to their grapple check and do whatever they want though! Cause it's always a great idea... :P

[RedDogMT]

Corren28 wrote:

They could always take the -20 to their grapple check and do whatever they want though! Cause it's always a great idea... :P

Where did you get that option from? If you are extrapolating it from the GRAB ability, it's incorrect.

[Corren28]

Yes, I was extrapolating it from the Grab ability. I was being facetious. My apologies for not clarifying.