The Hexcrafter Guide had some interesting ideas about playing the Hexcrafter Magus as a debuffing machine. One suggested build started with a dip into White-Haired Witch to spiff up the available prehensile hair and lay on a staggering number of debuffs. However, it seemed to rely on some fairly aggressive rule interpretations and by all reports wasn't that fun to play in an actual campaign.
How about starting with one level of Winter Witch? You pick up a familiar and get to take a first level hex, and one of your choices is this:
Frozen Caress (Su) Whenever the winter witch casts a touch spell, she can infuse the magic with cold as a swift action. This grants the spell the cold descriptor, and adds 1d4 points of cold damage to the spell’s effect. If the touch spell allows a saving throw, a successful save negates this additional cold damage.
If I'm understanding the rules correctly this would let you throw around Rime Shocking Grasps once you get a magus level and entangle everybody you hit with a weapon. Is that right? Is that worthwhile?
I'm gonna bump this, because I am curious :D
Personally I think it sounds fine (although remember Rime Spell is +1 Spell Level), but I can see an argument that it wouldn't work quite that easily.
Basically there could be an argument that this only works with spells cast using the Witch class, which wouldn't work with the Magus' Spellstrike or Spell Combat.
To get around this you just need the Broad Study Arcana to get around this, which you can only get at Magus level 6 or higher. If you're starting at level 7 or higher, then yes that's completely fine, but otherwise it's a bit iffy.
Personally I'd probably let players do it at my table, I'm more for player empowerment, but it depends on the GM and the players at the table (and for PFS there's more need for player balance, so they might have more problems with it there).
Broad Study Description
Broad Study (Ex): The magus selects another one of his spellcasting classes. The magus can use his spellstrike and spell combat abilities while casting or using spells from the spell list of that class. This does not allow him to cast arcane spells from that class’s spell list without suffering the normal chances of arcane spell failure, unless the spell lacks somatic components. The magus must be at least 6th level and must possess levels in at least one other spellcasting class before selecting this arcana.
(Ultimate Magic p11)
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Thought about it, I don't think it will work. Rime spell must be applied to a spell with cold descriptor. Unfortunately you are a prepared spellcaster, so at the time of preparation the shocking grasp does not have cold descriptor, thus is not valid for rime spell. The cold descriptor is only infused as a swift action, at the time of casting. If you were a sorcerer with spontaneous metamagic, then yes, it could be done, as a full round action.
The reason why people use rime frost bite and chill touch is for multiple round stuff, so you do not burn out all your spell slots at once, like traditional magus are so famous for doing.
Thaago, prehensile hair hex - if you have only one attack, its at full bab, even if its stated as a secondary weapon. So don't be wielding a weapon while using prehensile hair hex, you get full bab. And prehensile hair hex keys off your int, not str. Also, for cool hexes, hexcrafters should ideally start with at least 16 int. You don't need 18 str, 16 is fine.
And about defilers in actual campaigns - its pretty close to an ALL CAPS build, according to the author and should not be used for PFS. Again, since everything on the boards is theorycraft, exercising those brain cells to think about the possibilities is no harm, is it not?
Oh wait, did I just tell you about the defiler? Damn. Failed my will save against cheese. Again.
Yeah, the Rime + shocking grasp is a little shaky. I've had GMs allow it (so far the only time I hit with it the baddie was immune to cold damage) but I could see it going the other way.
I love the design concept of the defiler. It is a beautiful picture of single attribute dependency. It's also dependent on some pretty generous GM rulings (that hair is "associated with a hand" and that white haired hair and prehensile hair stack perfectly), which is a bad thing with a GM-unfriendly build. I'm also a little bothered by the fact that you have to burn an early standard action just to get your weapon ready.
My debuffer concept is a little more straightforward:
STR 16 (+2 race)
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 16 (+1 level)
WIS 12
CHA 12
Feats: Enforcer, Improved Unarmed Strike, Hex Strike
Arcana: Wand Wielder, Slumber
Gear: Amulet of Many Fists, Spell Storing (ill omen)
On round one you run in and punch the bad guy for non-lethal. If you hit, free action intimidate. Then free action ill omen. Then swift action slumber. They now have to save twice with a -2 penalty. For CR-appropriate foes you're looking at a 75%-90% chance of taking them out in the first hit.
Round two->end you pull out your wand of ill omen and close on the bad guys. If you start a turn next to one you spell combat from the wand and punch them as above. At end of combat, refill your amulet. For a boss fight you can lead with a wand of true strike.
Bonus points: no dump stats and everything is online level five with a feat left over (or two if you're human). Obvious backup plan in case of a save is Rime Frostbite, but you could go another way if you wanted.
Issues: Undead, constructs, vermin, elementals.
Side point: While entangling is awesome, remember that only shaken and sickened directly attack saves.
It's three feats and 4k to move something from three standard actions (evil eye, ill omen, slumber) to a swift and two free actions. Moving hexes from a standard to a swift also enhances spellcombat a lot. I don't think you can ill omen and hex in the same round until level seven (wand wielding familiar) without hex strike.
Remember that the amulet at +1 only costs 4k now and you don't need to give an enhancement bonus first.
Massive damage does have its own appel. However, cr5 monsters tend to have 50-60 hp, so a one shot kill from two shocking grasps is far from a sure thing.
The immune monsters are a real problem. I do think there is room in the build to deal with them. I'm not sure what the best way is to go about it.
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Sorry RAW it doesn't work.
By RAW, it doesn't work.
Here's why:
Ultimate Combat Page 104 wrote:
Hex Strike (Combat)
Chanting and cursing, you put a hex on your enemy as part of your unarmed strike.
Prerequisites: Hex class feature, Improved Unarmed
Strike.
It specifically requires the Hex class feature. Why is this a problem?
Ultimate Magic Pages 48-49 wrote:
Hex Magus (Su): At 4th level, the hexcrafter magus gains access to a small number of witch’s hexes (see the Advanced Player’s Guide). The hexcrafter magus picks one hex from the witch’s hex class feature. He gains the benefit of or uses that hex as if he were a witch of a level equal to his magus level. This feature replaces spell recall.
Hex Arcana: A hexcrafter gains access to the following magus arcana, or may select any witch hex in place of a magus arcana. At 12th level, the hexcrafter may select a hex or major hex in place of a magus arcana. At 20th level, a hexcrafter can select a hex, major hex, or grand hex in place of a magus arcana. He cannot select any hex or arcana more than once.
From:http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2n210?Optimization-of-Hex-Strike#1
If you can get GM to veto it however, thats a very interesting image for knock out punches^^ You can use cornugon smash instead of enforcer, on times you need to deal lethal - though things immune to non lethal are also immune to slumber. You need to start combat with ill omen wand in hand.
Round 1:Move in, punch baddy. Drop ill omen from amulet with slumber hex.
Round 2: spellcombat ill omen wand, punch another baddy with slumber hex.
Once you get to business, no move actions left to draw wands.
Also - I am wondering - in hex strike, does the unarmed damage come before or after the hex (I would rule as before, since you need to hit, before you can spend a swift action to trigger hex strike) - or the damage may break slumber hex.
Also need to watch out for SR. Those pesky outsiders.
The hex class discussion has been hashed out around the Extra Hex feat. The short answer was "if something works just like feature x, treat it as feature x."
Re: the wand, you can put it in a spring loaded wrist sheath on any round your punch misses. Most gms will also let you draw it as part of the move action like a weapon, though some might not.
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Actually, it doesn't work that way. A hexcrafter does NOT qualify for extra hex feat. What happens, is after they get their first hex at 4, they gain the ability to gain a hex instead of a magus arcana, when they get a magus arcana. So what actually happens is they take extra magus arcana as a feat after lv 4 of hexcrafter, then substitute that magus arcana gained for a hex:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxk5?Hexcrafter-feats#1
See stream of sky's post in thread. That means hexcrafters cannot gain witch hexes until 4 and above.
The result is the same, but the means that a hexcrafter does it is different.
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Yeah, the Rime + shocking grasp is a little shaky. I've had GMs allow it (so far the only time I hit with it the baddie was immune to cold damage) but I could see it going the other way.
I love the design concept of the defiler. It is a beautiful picture of single attribute dependency. It's also dependent on some pretty generous GM rulings (that hair is "associated with a hand" and that white haired hair and prehensile hair stack perfectly), which is a bad thing with a GM-unfriendly build. I'm also a little bothered by the fact that you have to burn an early standard action just to get your weapon ready.
My debuffer concept is a little more straightforward:
** spoiler omitted **
On round one you run in and punch the bad guy for non-lethal. If you hit, free action intimidate. Then free action ill omen. Then swift action slumber. They now have to save twice with a -2 penalty. For CR-appropriate foes you're looking at a 75%-90% chance of taking them out in the first hit.
Round two->end you pull out your wand of ill omen and close on the bad guys. If you start a turn next to one you spell combat from the wand and punch them as above. At end of combat, refill your amulet. For a boss fight you can lead with a wand of true strike.
Bonus points: no dump stats and everything is online level five with a feat left over (or two if you're human). Obvious backup plan in case of a save is Rime Frostbite, but you could go another way if you wanted.
Issues: Undead, constructs, vermin, elementals.
Side point: While entangling is awesome, remember that only shaken and sickened directly attack saves.
I am still regretting creating this build but whatever, it's out there now.
Anyway, a standard action is not required to get the weapon ready, that's the point of the White Haired Witch dip. That hair is always active and can be used immediately (you don't even have to draw it, it's always on). The only time Prehensile hair is needed is if you want to attack at reach or want to cast spells with your hair hand.As for the stacking issue it doesn't actually matter. If they do then great you can do it at range but if they don't you just need to take a 5 foot step closer and it works (or buy the lunge feat).
Actually, it doesn't work that way. A hexcrafter does NOT qualify for extra hex feat. What happens, is after they get their first hex at 4, they gain the ability to gain a hex instead of a magus arcana, when they get a magus arcana. So what actually happens is they take extra magus arcana as a feat after lv 4 of hexcrafter, then substitute that magus arcana gained for a hex:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxk5?Hexcrafter-feats#1
See stream of sky's post in thread. That means hexcrafters cannot gain witch hexes until 4 and above.
The result is the same, but the means that a hexcrafter does it is different.
A bunch of posters don't think it works. On the other hand, take a look at SKR's discussion here:
So when the cleric class has a header section called "Class Features" and under that is an entry that says "Channel Energy," and the oracle class has a section called "Class Features" and under that is an entry that says "Channel: You can channel positive energy like a cleric," and the paladin class has a section called "Class Features" and under that is an entry that says "Channel Positive Energy (Su): ... she gains the supernatural ability to channel positive energy like a cleric," those all are intended to work the same way, even though they're not given identical names.
The whole thing continues in this vein for some time. If your GM wants to say that a class feature called "Hex Magus" that grants access to hexes doesn't qualify as a "Hex" class feature because the name is slightly different, he's just wrong. It's a precise match for the "Channel Energy" vs. "Channel:" vs. "Channel Positive Energy" distinction that SKR dismissed as specious.
On a separate note, how about this for the Transmogrifist build:
Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
Benefit: Choose one combat feat you know that applies to a specific weapon (e.g., Weapon Focus). You can use that feat with any weapon within the same weapon group.
I was originally looking at this as a way to get Hex Strike while transformed. But that last line... how about using your arcane pool to pump up your unarmed strike? All of a sudden all of your natural weapons get a +x bonus on top of your amulet of mighty fists. Not bad when you're rocking six attacks.
FCT: ... Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
Which suggests that your dream of enchanting 6 assorted natural weapons falls at the first hurdle, sorry.
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Meh, rather play on the side of being safe with regards to building stuff, because lots of people on the boards use those characters in PFS, and if there is any ambiguity, you're going to be hit with table variation. If you build your character around 1 ambiguous item, all it takes is a GM to say, "No that won't work" and you're screwed. And since in PFS you don't know who will be your GM...I'd suggest not.
Home games on the other hand, clear with your GM and you're ready to rock and roll.
I've got a Hexcrafter that debuffs and controls the battle field through AoO. It works so:
Spellstrikes Frostbite Rime, Enforcer, Spear Dancer with a reach weapon. To ensure that it hits he uses Fortune hex with Soothsayer and Cackle (latter obtained through item) and Rod of Interminable Hexes.
Add power attack, furious focus and perhaps mirror strike for some damage and fun. Prehensile hair could work well if you have a low stat buy.
The GM wasnt happy when I told him that the enemy was taking that many - to hit.
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On a separate note, how about this for the Transmogrifist build:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
I was originally looking at this as a way to get Hex Strike while transformed. But that last line... how about using your arcane pool to pump up your unarmed strike? All of a sudden all of your natural weapons get a +x bonus on top of your amulet of mighty fists. Not bad when you're rocking six attacks.
That won't work, read the Martial Versatility feat again.
It specifies it only allows you to use that specific feat for any weapon in that group, it doesn't change the restriction from Arcane Pool to only affect one weapon at a time.
FCT: ... Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
Which suggests that your dream of enchanting 6 assorted natural weapons falls at the first hurdle, sorry.
Yes, and martial versatility allows the feat to apply to all of the weapons in the same group. All natural weapons are in the same group.
Feral Combat Training says that all effects that augment an unarmed strike apply to the selected natural weapon. Martial Versatility says that FCT applies to all natural weapons. The arcane pool buff is an effect that applies to unarmed strikes.
You aren't using the arcane pool to buff everything directly. The arcane pool buffs one weapon, just as it says. FCT makes that buff apply to (say) claws, then MV makes it apply to everything else.
The biggest obstacle I could see would be a GM that didn't allow you to use the arcane pool to buff unarmed strikes, but that seems inconsistent with the FAQ on spell combat. If you can use your arcane pool to give your unarmed strikes flaming, frost, and shocking, it seems hard to say that's not an "effect that augments an unarmed strike."
ETA: Feral Combat Training also probably opens up Brawling Armor and Style feats for a natural attack build. It's a heavy feat cost but could be worth it.