By the time you talking about a +7 sword or giantform 2 to increase size, your talking about critters that WILL have resistences and immunities. Even to acid and lightning.
Then it's ok. I'd still rather have Holy, but if you're non-good, fighting non-evil enemies mostly, or you're thinking of upgrading your +7 weapon to a +9, then sure, Impact is good--provided you have an unlikely combination of size increases already.
Honestly, I would rather take Impact over any of the Elemental or Elemental Burst properties...
Problem is that those are only +1 effects, while Impact is +2, so you're paying more for something that's not really much better.
Edit: Yeah just rechecked pfsrd and realized I misread the Elemental Bursts >_>... my bad.
An Elemental Burst effect is a +2, the same as Impact. Impact adds to a base dice damage that is not precision-based (or for the Elemental case, resistance-based), and scales/synergizes well with other feats. A Vital Strike + Impact combo makes a 12D6 Greatsword quite powerful. That's not factoring in other size bonuses, which would make it 16D6+, on top of which adding those other modifiers you normally implement.
How is Impact bad again?
An Elemental Burst effect is a +2, the same as Impact.
I think most people can see that an elemental burst effect is not worth it. Two regular elemental effects are always better than one burst--but neither is really optimal.
Impact adds to a base dice damage that is not precision-based (or for the Elemental case, resistance-based), and scales/synergizes well with other feats. A Vital Strike + Impact combo makes a 12D6 Greatsword quite powerful.
Impact helps Vital Strike and vice versa, but neither are really great choices. We went over all this math, didn't we? It wasn't worth it.
How is Impact bad again?
It's not so much "bad" as it is "not as good as other options."
Elemental Burst effects aren't optimal because their (extra) damage bonus doesn't apply to all attacks. Impact, on the other hand, does, and scales with Critical Hits and Vital Strike feats, and even more than I probably didn't even mention.
The fact it helps out with Bull Rush checks is another bonus that shouldn't be scoffed at either. Energy damage is going to be garbage by the later levels, since everything and their grandma is going to have 10+ resistance to each energy type, meaning the raw damage that Impact provides is going to be superior than them in the long run, which is what it's all about.
I still don't see how an Impact property is bad compared to the Elemental (Burst) properties. A +1D6 that's nullified by a single spell (or template), or a +1D6 that scales with your crits, synergizes with feats and other effects, as well as helps an area that, even with reductions applied to it, would make such a reduction less significant.
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Elemental Burst effects aren't optimal because their (extra) damage bonus doesn't apply to all attacks. Impact, on the other hand, does, and scales with Critical Hits and Vital Strike feats, and even more than I probably didn't even mention.
The fact it helps out with Bull Rush checks is another bonus that shouldn't be scoffed at either. Energy damage is going to be garbage by the later levels, since everything and their grandma is going to have 10+ resistance to each energy type, meaning the raw damage that Impact provides is going to be superior than them in the long run, which is what it's all about.
I still don't see how an Impact property is bad compared to the Elemental (Burst) properties. A +1D6 that's nullified by a single spell (or template), or a +1D6 that scales with your crits, synergizes with feats and other effects, as well as helps an area that, even with reductions applied to it, would make such a reduction less significant.
Because NOBODY is saying that elemental burst is better then impact maybe? Burst is garbage. It is better to have two elements then burst. The two top choices being acid and lightning. But even then, if either one of those gets resisted 1/2 the time...which it may depending on the campaign, impact maybe better still. In anycase, impact is like elementals and holy...if you should or not depends on your build and/or what you fight.
I once made a crossbowman that outdamaged an archer while using a burst enhancement. That was pretty fun, but some people don't think it works. The burst was actually the thing that put it over the archer, IIRC. Don't have the numbers anymore though :(
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I still don't see how an Impact property is bad compared to the Elemental (Burst) properties. A +1D6 that's nullified by a single spell (or template), or a +1D6 that scales with your crits, synergizes with feats and other effects, as well as helps an area that, even with reductions applied to it, would make such a reduction less significant.
It's not bad compared to Bursts. Bursts are terrible. But Holy is generally better, for example. +2 to hit and damage is better if you're under +2. If you can pick the right Bane, that's also better.
And keep in mind it's only +1d6 for a Greatsword. People do use other weapons. It's only a +1 damage boost for 1d4 or 1d6 weapons. It's +2 for a Falchion. +2.5 for a 1d8. It's only +3.5 for a 1d10 or 2d6 weapon, and it's only more than that with other size boosting tricks.
The thing is, though, boosting size is usually not the best thing you can do for damage. Boosting accuracy is better, almost always, for example, and the real benefit of Enlarge Person is reach, not the damage.
Having Impact is better than not having Impact. It's better than garbage enchants like Elemental Bursts (well, apparently, unless you're Cheapy with a crossbow). But that doesn't make it good for everyone or even good in general.
For the majority of characters, Impactful will not be a good choice. For some people playing with size boosts, it will be ok. It will never be great. I would always prefer Holy, for example.
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I once made a crossbowman that outdamaged an archer while using a burst enhancement. That was pretty fun, but some people don't think it works. The burst was actually the thing that put it over the archer, IIRC. Don't have the numbers anymore though :(
Assuming equal everything else...not possible. Lets say you both had 10 str (since you can't add str damage to xbows) and the same amount of enchantments...there is noway that burst does more damage then 2 elements. 2 elements is 3.5x2 for 7 average damage per hit. The burst on a x3 bow w/imp crit has a 10% chance to do 2d10 or 10% of 11 or 1.1 avergae damage + the 3.5 for 4.6 average damage. The x bow w/imp crit is 20% to do 1d10 or 1.1 average damage again for 4.6. Two elements...assuming they aren't resisted is better. The x4 or 18-20/x2 w/imp crit are ~1.6 average damage for the burst part. Honestly burst should be a fix priced enchantment that can be added to elemental effects.
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For the majority of characters, Impactful will not be a good choice. For some people playing with size boosts, it will be ok. It will never be great. I would always prefer Holy, for example.
I'm not sure I agree with the holy. Even in an AP like council of thieves, where you would expect this ability to be on basically ALL the time, there are enough hard encounters where the fact that it only works on evil critters is noticed (ran it for a casual group not long ago).
I once made a crossbowman that outdamaged an archer while using a burst enhancement. That was pretty fun, but some people don't think it works. The burst was actually the thing that put it over the archer, IIRC. Don't have the numbers anymore though :(Assuming equal everything else...not possible. Lets say you both had 10 str (since you can't add str damage to xbows) and the same amount of enchantments...there is noway that burst does more damage then 2 elements. 2 elements is 3.5x2 for 7 average damage per hit. The burst on a x3 bow w/imp crit has a 10% chance to do 2d10 or 10% of 11 or 1.1 avergae damage + the 3.5 for 4.6 average damage. The x bow w/imp crit is 20% to do 1d10 or 1.1 average damage again for 4.6. Two elements...assuming they aren't resisted is better. The x4 or 18-20/x2 w/imp crit are ~1.6 average damage for the burst part. Honestly burst should be a fix priced enchantment that can be added to elemental effects.
Oh, the bow didn't have the elemental burst thing.
Just the crossbow. I think once I added some optional thing for the bow, it came out ahead. But not by as much as one would think.
The whole thing was based off possibly getting a 17-20/x3 crossbow by using bracers of falcon's aim. Whether that's possible or not is for another thread, although I'm sure you can see how 17-20/x3 would change things a wee bit with burst.
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Oh, the bow didn't have the elemental burst thing.Just the crossbow. I think once I added some optional thing for the bow, it came out ahead. But not by as much as one would think.
The whole thing was based off possibly getting a 17-20/x3 crossbow by using bracers of falcon's aim. Whether that's possible or not is for another thread, although I'm sure you can see how 17-20/x3 would change things a wee bit with burst.
Well then it wasn't the burst...it was the fact that you just had a better weapon then him.
Also falcon aim SETS the crit at 19-20/x3 so you can't actually improve that any more then that...so that would be based on a houserule.
Also falcon aim SETS the crit at 19-20/x3 so you can't actually improve that any more then that...so that would be based on a houserule.
I really don't see any reason you couldn't add improved critical to make it 17-20. It sets the weapon's base crit to 19--I don't see why you couldn't increase the new base.
IIRC: Holy only applies against Evil beings. Unholy only applies against Good beings.
I don't use size increases or anything like that. But I can tell you Elemental (Burst) weapons are wonderful if you are fighting specific enemies just like a Silver Longsword or Cold Iron Battleaxe.
The problem is using Elemental weapons usually means you are carrying a golf bag full of weaponry.
Now take my Transformative Weapons. I can put impact on 2 out of the 3. The final one I am still looking for something to add to it. But with those 2 weapons I now have pretty much an entire Melee Arsenal. Add in my new Adaptive(?) Bow and I'm golden. We are fighting undead and evil things constantly. I had a +5 Holy Bastard Sword for a little bit until I traded that to the Paladin.
IIRC: Holy only applies against Evil beings.
And the vast majority of enemies you will face end-game are Evil.
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Also falcon aim SETS the crit at 19-20/x3 so you can't actually improve that any more then that...so that would be based on a houserule.I really don't see any reason you couldn't add improved critical to make it 17-20. It sets the weapon's base crit to 19--I don't see why you couldn't increase the new base.
Because the spell sets the crit stats...not increase it to be that. So while this spell is active, if you have a keen crossbow, the crit stat becomes 19-20/x3 and your crit range actually shrinks (but you get the x3 crit). It is like being under ray of enfeeblement. Say your under a ray of enfeeblement for -8 to str and you have 10 str. The spell applies the full 8. You then get drained for 4 str by shadow. The spell now only applies -5 because it sets your str to 1. You take another 6 str from a shadow...now the spell GIVES you a +1 to keep your str at 1. I have in fact used this spell to stay alive vs shadows. Honestly, it is a badly written spell with an even worse item attached to it.
Scaling Vs. Static... Why is it that feels like the old StuG Vs. StuH argument...
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Because the spell sets the crit stats...not increase it to be that.
Why are you applying Aspect of the Falcon last instead of first?
Apply AoF and set the crit to 19-20/x3, then apply Keen/Improved Crit and it's 17-20/x3.
There's no rule about which applies first that I'm aware of, and in 3rd, the character controlling the effect chooses the order things applied in so that they'd work in the most beneficial way.
I have in fact used this spell to stay alive vs shadows. Honestly, it is a badly written spell with an even worse item attached to it.
That is a really clever usage, but I agree--it should say "The subject's Strength score cannot drop below 1 as a result of this penalty" or something like that.
And I never said other options weren't worth considering. Just that Holy was one of my go to enhancements past +5, and that unless I was doing some size manipulation, I'd rather have Holy than Impact.
Oh, the bow didn't have the elemental burst thing.Just the crossbow. I think once I added some optional thing for the bow, it came out ahead. But not by as much as one would think.
The whole thing was based off possibly getting a 17-20/x3 crossbow by using bracers of falcon's aim. Whether that's possible or not is for another thread, although I'm sure you can see how 17-20/x3 would change things a wee bit with burst.
Well then it wasn't the burst...it was the fact that you just had a better weapon then him.
Also falcon aim SETS the crit at 19-20/x3 so you can't actually improve that any more then that...so that would be based on a houserule.
The bow had the same effective enhancement value.
I am not conviced that is true in APs...majority yes...but not in the overwhelming majority that other options aren't worth considering.IIRC: Holy only applies against Evil beings.And the vast majority of enemies you will face end-game are Evil.
APs maybe. But most of the Evil I have ran into end-game have been BBEGs or Dungeon Bosses. Or Undead hordes. Which I find increased Base Damage better than Holy. Can't count the number of times Vital Strike has saved my brains.
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Well...PRD seems to have an errata on the spell to make it pretty clear that you can't imp crit/keen after the spell.
School transmutation (polymorph); Level druid 1, ranger 1Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 minute/level
You take on an aspect of a falcon. Your eyes become wide and raptor-like, and you grow feathers on the sides of your head. You gain a +3 competence bonus on Perception checks, a +1 competence bonus on ranged attacks, and the critical multiplier for your bows and crossbows becomes 19–20/×3. This effect does not stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon, such as the Improved Critical feat or a keen weapon.
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That is a really clever usage, but I agree--it should say "The subject's Strength score cannot drop below 1 as a result of this penalty" or something like that.
And I never said other options weren't worth considering. Just that Holy was one of my go to enhancements past +5, and that unless I was doing some size manipulation, I'd rather have Holy than Impact.
Yeah the first time I did this was in 3.5. The DM was like what?!? when I said I zap myself with ray of enfeeblement when I was at 3 str fighting shadows :P . He then read the rules and couldn't stop laughing for like 20 min hehe.
From what I remember it has always been that way.
Well...PRD seems to have an errata on the spell to make it pretty clear that you can't imp crit/keen after the spell.
Oh, yeah, that's pretty clear. Ok, that sucks.
Well...PRD seems to have an errata on the spell to make it pretty clear that you can't imp crit/keen after the spell.
School transmutation (polymorph); Level druid 1, ranger 1Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 minute/level
You take on an aspect of a falcon. Your eyes become wide and raptor-like, and you grow feathers on the sides of your head. You gain a +3 competence bonus on Perception checks, a +1 competence bonus on ranged attacks, and the critical multiplier for your bows and crossbows becomes 19–20/×3. This effect does not stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon, such as the Improved Critical feat or a keen weapon.
That's actually always been there, but the thing here is that when you are determining what stacks, you choose the highest. If you had 17-20 already, then you aren't stacking anything at all if you put those bracers on. You choose the highest, which is 17-20. Just like if you had a +4 enhancement bonus belt of strength on, and then you put an item on that gave a +2 enhancement bonus, you'd use the +4. Because that's what you do when you don't stack bonuses, but select the highest.
But that's the last I'm saying on this. There are many other threads for it if you wish to discuss it with others.
That's not the issue with this. For the purpose of the spell, the multiplier increase for crossbows does not stack (or for this case, work in conjunction) with thins like Improved Critical or Keen.
The critical statistics are modified to a certain level for the bows, and that certain level modification is a blanket that affects the threat range.
The way I see it, it's either a 19-20 X3, or 17-20 X2 with both properties active, and cannot be rechoosen until 24 hours have elapsed; with each active, you can choose between which effect stacks (since there is no one outright better stat).
But we're losing point on the whole "Impact" thing, which is what this is all about.
Bonuses to hit and damage are always welcome. But it's not like I should plan myself to fight evil or good characters all the time, since chances are I won't be fighting good or evil characters all the time.
I haven't bothered to calculate an exact formula but ran a bunch of figures and for the most part Impact is not worth the +2. Impact can be worth the in the following scenarios:
-You really want the +5 bonus to bull rush
-You already have a +5 enhancement bonus on your weapon
-Your weapon has a large dice pool for damage and you have low static bonus damage
-You use Vital Strike a lot
Here's the figures I used for my calculations. For each block of numbers the first row is the baseline, the second row is the effect +2 enchancement will have on your damage, while the third row is the effect Impact will have:
Dice, Av Roll, Bonus damage, Hit%, Expected damage
2d6, 7, 15, 0.5, 11
2d6, 7, 17, 0.6, 14.4
3d6, 10.5, 15, 0.5, 12.75
2d6, 7, 15, 0.75, 16.5
2d6, 7, 17, 0.85, 20.4
3d6, 10.5, 15, 0.75, 19.125
2d6, 7, 15, 0.85, 18.7
2d6, 7, 17, 0.95, 22.8
3d6, 10.5, 15, 0.85, 21.675
2d6, 7, 15, 0.25, 5.5
2d6, 7, 17, 0.35, 8.4
3d6, 10.5, 15, 0.25, 6.375
2d6, 7, 25, 0.5, 16
2d6, 7, 27, 0.6, 20.4
3d6, 10.5, 25, 0.5, 17.75
2d6, 7, 25, 0.75, 24
2d6, 7, 27, 0.85, 28.9
3d6, 10.5, 25, 0.75, 26.625
2d6, 7, 25, 0.85, 27.2
2d6, 7, 27, 0.95, 32.3
3d6, 10.5, 25, 0.85, 30.175
2d6, 7, 25, 0.25, 8
2d6, 7, 27, 0.35, 11.9
3d6, 10.5, 25, 0.25, 8.875
2d6, 7, 5, 0.5, 6
2d6, 7, 7, 0.6, 8.4
3d6, 10.5, 7, 0.5, 8.75
2d6, 7, 5, 0.75, 9
2d6, 7, 7, 0.85, 11.9
3d6, 10.5, 7, 0.75, 13.125
2d6, 7, 5, 0.85, 10.2
2d6, 7, 7, 0.95, 13.3
3d6, 10.5, 7, 0.85, 14.875
2d6, 7, 5, 0.25, 3
2d6, 7, 7, 0.35, 4.9
3d6, 10.5, 7, 0.25, 4.375
4d8, 18, 15, 0.5, 16.5
4d8, 18, 17, 0.6, 21
6d8, 27, 15, 0.5, 21
4d8, 18, 15, 0.75, 24.75
4d8, 18, 17, 0.85, 29.75
6d8, 27, 15, 0.75, 31.5
4d8, 18, 15, 0.85, 28.05
4d8, 18, 17, 0.95, 33.25
6d8, 27, 15, 0.85, 35.7
4d8, 18, 15, 0.25, 8.25
4d8, 18, 17, 0.35, 12.25
6d8, 27, 15, 0.25, 10.5
4d8, 18, 25, 0.5, 21.5
4d8, 18, 27, 0.6, 27
6d8, 27, 25, 0.5, 26
4d8, 18, 25, 0.75, 32.25
4d8, 18, 27, 0.85, 38.25
6d8, 27, 25, 0.75, 39
4d8, 18, 25, 0.85, 36.55
4d8, 18, 27, 0.95, 42.75
6d8, 27, 25, 0.85, 44.2
4d8, 18, 25, 0.25, 10.75
4d8, 18, 27, 0.35, 15.75
6d8, 27, 25, 0.25, 13
As you can see, in most typical scenarios you'll get better value from the +2 enhancement than Impact.
Impact is ALWAYS on. Holy and elemaental burst ARE NOT. Impact therefore is good.
Impact is ALWAYS on. Holy and elemaental burst ARE NOT. Impact therefore is good.
Holy adds more than Impact does unless you're using crazy size shenanigans. The amount it applies (in my experience, greater than 75% of the time) has to be weighed against how much more damage it adds.
Even using 75% of the time, holy adds ~5.25. Until you're going from 4d6 to 6d6 with Impact, Impact will be inferior.
And once again, nobody claimed Elemental Bursts were good. But being better than something awful doesn't make you good. One could argue that John Wayne Gacy was better than Hitler--that does not make John Wayne Gacy good.
It all depends on the player.
I for one get more use out of Impact. Especially on my Dervish Dancing Cleric of Sarenrae. I need as much potential damage as I can get.
It all depends on the player.
I for one get more use out of Impact. Especially on my Dervish Dancing Cleric of Sarenrae. I need as much potential damage as I can get.
I just don't think the math bears out on that claim at all, especially since you're starting with a lower damage base weapon.
I'm not really sure how this keeps happening. You can't disagree with math, unless we all made a mistake and you do some math of your own to prove it.
You can like Impact more because it feels more powerful to roll bigger/more dice, but that doesn't make it actually good by the numbers.
@mplindustries: You have to realize you can still add Holy to an Impact weapon. It is just you have to decide which to add first. And if Holy is worth the cost compared to the amount of Evil enemies you fight.
In most campaigns I run or play in Evil is really rare.
@mplindustries: You have to realize you can still add Holy to an Impact weapon. It is just you have to decide which to add first. And if Holy is worth the cost compared to the amount of Evil enemies you fight.
In most campaigns I run or play in Evil is really rare.
Then Holy sucks, too, your game. Impact is still not good, though. That would just mean it's better than something that sucks (in your games).
It's only even remotely worth it after you already have a +5 weapon, and I'd wager I could easily come up with +5 worth of pluses that would be better than having a bigger weapon die.
I'm telling you, our brains deceive us about this stuff--bigger/more dice look way better than they really are statistically.
Generally, a designer wants to assume the worst when making something. With that in mind, I can see why it's a +2. You can, with a bit of work, get some ridiculous things going with it, generally all of them involving vital strike or size increases. Or both! Assuming, of course, this doesn't count as the size increase, and that enlarge person + this would stack.
But that seems a bit...too niche.... So looking at all the pros and cons this thing has.
Pros:
Cons:
In a normal case, at best it's going to add an extra d6. This already puts it at the cost of a +1 weapon, and I think the always on nature of the enhancement is a fair substitute for the energy enhancements going through DR. So since generally we always assume the worst, and the reasonable 'worst' case is a d6, it has to be at least a +1.
With the addition of the bull rush bit, it has to be greater than +1. I don't think there are too many (if any) examples of an enhancement costing an effective enhancement point plus a flat GP cost. So that, somewhat begrudgingly, puts it at +2.
It's alright. Not really great, not really horrible.
I wish they had the concept of half-enhancements, like that one Super Genius Game supplement. I think this would've been a fine +1-1/2 enhancement.
I'm telling you, our brains deceive us about this stuff--bigger/more dice look way better than they really are statistically.
You are talking to someone who finds it fun messing with people psychologically.
Most would probably fall for the bigger/more dice thing. I am actually looking at it as:
My Bastard Sword normally deals 1d10 impact makes it 2d8. That means my minimum rolled damage is now 2. my maximum rolled damage is now 16.
add in my 20 STR and I it becomes 7 to 21. before adding in any of my feats and such.
using a size large bastard sword with some size shenanigans is the way to go for this sucker. I have seen giant melee builds on tables often enough to see this being good.
I'm telling you, our brains deceive us about this stuff--bigger/more dice look way better than they really are statistically.You are talking to someone who finds it fun messing with people psychologically.
Most would probably fall for the bigger/more dice thing. I am actually looking at it as:
My Bastard Sword normally deals 1d10 impact makes it 2d8. That means my minimum rolled damage is now 2. my maximum rolled damage is now 16.
add in my 20 STR and I it becomes 7 to 21. before adding in any of my feats and such.
The difference between 1d10 and 2d8 is only 3.5 average damage, the same as adding 1d6. I think you got fooled ;)
He was talking about a LARGE bastard sword, however. Take a Titan Mauler wielding a large bastard sword, for example, then you are dealing a minimum of 3d8 base damage while enlarged/raging.
The difference between 1d10 and 3d8 is 8 average damage. That's even better than the Holy weapon property! Or a whopping 48.5 average damage when using Greater Vital Strike.
Im sure you could stack some more juju on there RD! your just not trying hard enough :)
First, it's "you're." :P
Second, I'm not accounting for a great many other factors for simplicity's sake. Things such as a high strength, magic items, and feats like Power Attack, Furious Focus, Devastating Strike, etc. can make the actual damage skyrocket.
@mplindustries: What makes you think I got fooled?
Note only one person is adamantly claiming the property sucks, everyone else gives it at least SOME credit. I think this is a case of being obtuse simply for the sake of argument. I fall on the side that doesn't think this is a "niche" property and would ABUSE the crap out of it every chance I got.
I would like to see if you could use this to make a viable fellow that uses single attacks. You can get to colossal weapon damage in few ways I am sure. Add in Vital strike and rest of the chain and it probably could meet the decent mark. My main worry would be could it work at all levels.
Such a character would not stand up to one that can consistently makes full attacks, but it would most certainly be viable (and may even thrive).
Note only one person is adamantly claiming the property sucks, everyone else gives it at least SOME credit. I think this is a case of being obtuse simply for the sake of argument. I fall on the side that doesn't think this is a "niche" property and would ABUSE the crap out of it every chance I got.
Hmm, +5 Impact Large Greatsword. Use that armor that allows you to use weapon one size larger and then stack bonuses.
@Ravingdork: I think that build would be excellent for a Rogue. And would be perfect idea for a mobile fighter that can bounce between multiple enemies to help his allies.
Heck, this could even be wonderful for a Gunslingers melee weapon.
@mplindustries: What makes you think I got fooled?
You started talking about minimum and maximum damage and your strength mod and ignored the only thing that matters when calculating this stuff, which is the average result.
The average of 1d10 is 5.5. The average of 2d8 is 9. That's a 3.5 damage bonus. Done. Your strength doesn't do anything to see if Impact is worth it--your Strength is entirely separate.
You acted as though you "got it," but then immediately said things to suggest to me that you did not, and were just looking at the fact that 2d8 could roll up to 16!
I would like to see if you could use this to make a viable fellow that uses single attacks. You can get to colossal weapon damage in few ways I am sure. Add in Vital strike and rest of the chain and it probably could meet the decent mark. My main worry would be could it work at all levels.
For this post, assume W is the average damage of your base weapon damage, and B is the average of all your extra damage bonuses that aren't going to muliply on Vital Strike (so B is stuff like Str, Power attack, Sneak Attack, etc.).
The equilibrium point between Vital Strike and taking two iterative attacks is:
B = 1/3W
If your weapon (somehow, because this isn't really possible) deals 6d4, Vital Strike would be exactly equal to making two iterative attacks if you had 5 additional damage from some non-weapon source. If you had less than 5 extra damage, Vital Strike is better than two attacks. If you had more than 5, Vital Strike is worse.
If you're talking Improved Vital Strike, your equilibrium point against taking three iterative attacks is:
B = 3/5W
If that same 6d4 weapon had 9 base attack bonus attached to it, you'd break even compared to making three iterative attacks (say form +11 BAB).
If you're looking for Greater Vital Strike, your equilibrium point against taking four iterative attacks is:
B = W
I think at this point, you get the idea.
A Colossal Greatsword, however you get it, deals 8d6 damage. That's 28 average damage.
If you want to use this weapon with Vital Strike, you can't have more than 9 damage from other sources (meaning you'll deal 65 or less damage average on a Vital Strike hit), if you want Vital Strike to be better than a full attack.
For Improved Vital Strike, you can't deal more than 16 bonus damage. For Greater Vital Strike, you can't deal more than 28.
I'm really not sure how you could consider yourself a viable character if you're only adding 9 damage to your attack. It's nearly impossible considering at least some of your weapon size increase has to come from actual size increases, which will raise your Strength. If you have just 22 Strength, you've blown it, as you need a minimum of +1 to come from the base enchantment you need before Impact.
It's sort of possible for Improved Vital Strike, I guess. But then you're not using Power Attack (which would be adding 12 on its own at BAB +12)...
No, this is just not going to happen. You just can't your damage high enough while keeping your non-weapon damage low enough (while still being a useful character overall) that any version of Vital Strike will be better than making a Full Attack.
@Ravingdork: I think that build would be excellent for a Rogue.
If a Rogue, whose main damage source is Sneak Attack, is only making a single attack per round on purpose, that Rogue is losing.
And for the record, I am giving it some credit. It's just nothing to write home about, and it will only be your best choice in very limited circumstances.
With the Rogue they would also be using other methods to increase the damage.
You also have to remember I was referencing that the weapons standard damage is increased against all targets whether it is an Angel, Human, Elf, or Demon.
You say averages are what matter. Alright how about this the most common alignment for most enemies is Neutral not Good or Evil. That means Holy and Unholy are useless.