| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just for the fun of it I decided to roll up a Monk and I kind of got enamored with the idea of him being a Lawful Evil Monk of some sort, who is kind of your stereotypical "proud warrior guy". He's obsessed with increasing his strength and is callous to the point of cruelty on occasion in the pursuit of that goal. He has a soft spot for children, but anyone over the age of about 8 he expects to be able to take care of themselves. I don't really have all the details worked out yet, but to add some religious flavor he would be either a worshiper of Achaekek or Irori (but only his harsher aspects).
His one fatal flaw is that he's a severe alcoholic, and his attitude pretty much does a complete 180 when he drinks. He becomes very chatty and talkative, and somewhat of a fun loving guy. Kinda wanted to make this as part of a bigger backstory of some kind (the alcohol makes him show is true self before whatever traumatic event gave him his obsession with strength or something similar). I realize this last bit is kind of tacked on currently, but I really want a Drunken Master and I haven't gotten around to working that in better yet to justify it.
So my first question comes in here: Would he be Lawful Evil or Neutral in that case? Does the fact that he would leave people to die just because they weren't strong enough make him evil, or just indifferent?
The advice part comes in here, how should I build him? I rolled up some pretty damn good stats I think and I don't want to make an ironically weak strength obsessed Monk.
So here we go:
Sun Xiao
Human Monk 1 (Master of Many Styles/Drunken Master/Qinggong)
Str: 18
Dex: 14
Con: 15
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Cha: 12
My idea was to get both Dragon Style and Snake Style at first level, giving me a slight damage and survivability increase (especially with the unexpected gift that Int score gave me in the Skill department, making Sense Motive a very attractive option), then get Dragon Ferocity as my level 2 Bonus Feat, and Snake Fang as my 3rd level Feat.
From there, I'm kinda fuzzy on what I want to do. I was thinking of maybe getting Elemental Fist at level 5 (since Dragon Ferocity so very well complements it) but am completely undecided about the future beyond that. Any suggestions for Styles that synergize with Dragon and Snake? Would I be hurting myself by taking Deep or Fast Drinker instead of more Styles? How are the genie themed Styles overall, worth it or not?
He sounds like Lawful Neutral leaning to Evil if his true side is the kinder one.
Maybe with some character development, he will be pulled away from the dark side for good?
Have you considered the Ironskin Monk?
I'm trying to build a character I could conceivably play in my current group, and only core races are allowed this time around. I'll take another look at it if this caveat changes though, it looks interesting.
If you're familiar with the manga series History's Strongest Disciple Kenichi, there are two martial arts philosophies that play a big part in the story; Satsujin-ken (Death-giving fist) and Katsujin-ken (Life-giving fist). Satsujin-ken is the philosophy that you haven't truly won unless you've killed your opponent. It believes that the purpose of martial arts is as a weapon to destroy. You could destroy good or destroy evil but the main point is that you practice a killing art. Katsujin-ken is the philosophy that martial arts is a tool to protect and you should strive to avoid killing in combat. You fight to protect yourself, your allies, innocents, even your opponent. Don't kill, don't allow yourself to be killed, and don't allow anyone else to be killed.
If you want a twist, you could go for a L/E monk practicing Satsujin-ken but aiming to destroy other evil people because you seek to become the strongest and only other evil, death-dealing opponents would be valid challenges in your eyes.
Oooh, that's good. I should really start reading Kenichi. I've watched the anime but I haven't had time to read many manga lately.
Master Arminas is named after his LE monk and had an elaborate backstory.
The Lawful Evil monk that comes to mind for me is Tenkai from Dagger of Kamui, if you know your old school anime.
Master Arminas is named after his LE monk and had an elaborate backstory.
The Lawful Evil monk that comes to mind for me is Tenkai from Dagger of Kamui, if you know your old school anime.
I do not. I'm not a hardcore anime fan, mostly I watch while I'm doing something else, which means subs are a no-go.
They key to playing a lawful evil monk is to define your code (your beliefs, your value system, whatever you choose to call it) and never, ever deviate from it. An evil character doesn't have to be one that goes around and kicks puppies just because they are there . . . he can have friends, act in a manner that wins him acclaim and fame and honor, and still be evil inside.
Not every DM or player believes that, but it is true. But for the LE monk, the most important thing is to live by that code you have constructed for yourself . . . in everything that you do. And you will have conflict with good or neutral characters if you play this guy right . . . that is just part and parcel of the territory in playing an evil dude fighting on the side of righteousness. But the good thing about Lawful Evil? Your companions know that your word is your bond, and you won't screw them over for the three coppers in their pocket. You can be trusted, even if you are a black-hearted villian of the first order . . . and that means that they will be much more open to keeping you around. So avoid chaos like the plague.
Strictures and Morales is an example of the code that my namesake monk lived by when I played him. The monastic order that he founded followed it as well.
And that monk was Master Arminas; his tales could fill a book, but I will give you link to some of them.
Master Arminas
1.) Interesting reads, though I haven't been through all of it yet.
2.) I 100% agree. This isn't supposed to be some license for me to be that jackoff that everybody hates playing with, it's just my attempt to play a character that's in a moral grey area and somewhat indirectly cruel. He'll be fiercely loyal to the party, especially ones that prove themselves in combat or make themselves useful in other areas.
Being obsessed with strength may have been limiting it too much. Mostly what I meant is that he's obsessed with EXCELLENCE, or perfection. If you can't fight your way out of a wet paper sack, that's okay, so long as you're damn good at something else useful like gathering information or forming plans. He'll go out of his way to protect those types of characters above all others in fact; the other warriors/combat specialists on the team he expects to be able to take care of themselves, but these guys' talents lie in another direction, and he can respect that.
And he's not going to go out of his way to kick puppies or eat babies. He doesn't hate someone for being weak, he's just utterly indifferent towards them. If you are of no use to him, or you don't even have the ambition to better yourself you don't register on his radar. He won't leave you to die in a burning building out of spite, he'll leave you to die in a burning building because you don't have the will to fight your way out of there.
That's not to say he doesn't have his soft spots. He likes children, seeing them as being little balls of untapped potential. Weaklings who realize that they're weak and wish to better themselves earn a bit of respect in his eyes as well. He may even decide to take such people under his wing as pupils in order to allow them to achieve their ambitions. The training won't be pleasant, but it will be thorough, and he's never unfair, even if he is a bit harsh. Hell, he might even stop to pull a man out of said burning building if he's the kind of guy who carried his unconscious family outside and collapsed on his last trip out or something.
Basically I don't want him to be needlessly cruel, but his worldview is probably warped enough that he registers as evil when compared to most people. He's definitely not good, and he might be closer to neutral than evil over all, but anything that doesn't fit within his moral code in some way or another is just a distraction to be ignored or pushed aside. Eliminated (not necessarily killed, though he's definitely not above it) if it becomes persistent.
That's my idea for now. I don't really have any specifics as far as past events go, but that's his basic driving characteristic, the pursuit of excellence.
1.) Interesting reads, though I haven't been through all of it yet.
2.) I 100% agree. This isn't supposed to be some license for me to be that jackoff that everybody hates playing with, it's just my attempt to play a character that's in a moral grey area and somewhat indirectly cruel. He'll be fiercely loyal to the party, especially ones that prove themselves in combat or make themselves useful in other areas.
Being obsessed with strength may have been limiting it too much. Mostly what I meant is that he's obsessed with EXCELLENCE, or perfection. If you can't fight your way out of a wet paper sack, that's okay, so long as you're damn good at something else useful like gathering information or forming plans. He'll go out of his way to protect those types of characters above all others in fact; the other warriors/combat specialists on the team he expects to be able to take care of themselves, but these guys' talents lie in another direction, and he can respect that.
And he's not going to go out of his way to kick puppies or eat babies. He doesn't hate someone for being weak, he's just utterly indifferent towards them. If you are of no use to him, or you don't even have the ambition to better yourself you don't register on his radar. He won't leave you to die in a burning building out of spite, he'll leave you to die in a burning building because you don't have the will to fight your way out of there.
That's not to say he doesn't have his soft spots. He likes children, seeing them as being little balls of untapped potential. Weaklings who realize that they're weak and wish to better themselves earn a bit of respect in his eyes as well. He may even decide to take such people under his wing as pupils in order to allow them to achieve their ambitions. The training won't be pleasant, but it will be thorough, and he's never unfair, even if he is a bit harsh. Hell, he might even stop to pull a man out of said burning building if he's the kind of guy who carried his unconscious family outside and collapsed on his last trip out or something.
Basically I don't want him to be needlessly cruel, but his worldview is probably warped enough that he registers as evil when compared to most people. He's definitely not good, and he might be closer to neutral than evil over all, but anything that doesn't fit within his moral code in some way or another is just a distraction to be ignored or pushed aside. Eliminated (not necessarily killed, though he's definitely not above it) if it becomes persistent.
That's my idea for now. I don't really have any specifics as far as past events go, but that's his basic driving characteristic, the pursuit of excellence.
I think you have it nailed. Also I'm gonna steal this.
I think you have it nailed. Also I'm gonna steal this.
Okay then.
Back to Arminas, I'm loving your stories so far. He/you are the exact kind of villain I love to watch/read about and it must have been amazingly fun to play. I think the story with the pixies who signed a mass death warrant was my favorite (so far, I've still got a page to read).
Edit: I take it back. As funny as that was, the ending is definitely the best part. A tip of the hat to you, O Master of Tales.
Human with the Racial Heritage feat can go Ironskin Monk.
This I did not know. I don't know all the Feats yet.
Looking at it again though, it looks like a less desirable option. I can get the same (but better) effect to AC from the standard Monk Wis AC bonus that ALSO increases by 1 for every 4 levels, though this would be nice as a low Wis Monk. I also much prefer the idea of a swift and insightful Monk over a tank it and have done Monk.
Thanks for showing me the option though.
You could also ask your DM if he allows Ironskin Monk for non-Hobgoblin Monks. I sure as hell would if I were your DM.
Great concept and characterization. I'd also call it a LN character with a cruel streak (or marked lack of empathy) rather than a LE. LE, in my mind, has to be a bit more active in exploiting others for their own benefit.
Thankee sai.
And yeah, that may be true. It'd work either way, but I think LE would give me more leeway if I were to occasionally indulge myself in something vindictive. Petty? Maybe. Satisfying? Probably.
Also, just out of curiosity, why is everyone so keen on the Ironskin Monk?
It's a cool, thematic archetype.
Just out of curiosity, why are you asking that question?
It's a cool, thematic archetype.
Just out of curiosity, why are you asking that question?
I didn't see anything I especially liked out of it, and 3 people (I think) have suggested it so far, so I figured I must be missing something. Though it looks like you could get a particularly badass Fort save out of it, that's for sure.
It seems more geared towards a tank-Monk, and that doesn't appeal to me very much. There are a lot of classes I believe can do tanking a lot better, so I'm geared as far as Monks go towards the types with quick reflexes. Maybe they're less effective in the long run, I don't know, but the idea of them sits better with me.
I've made an Ironskin / Qinggong Monk for my Kingmaker game, and she's far more a "Hit hard and Sunder stuff" kind of character than a tank. The natural armor bonus isn't very good, coupled with her rather mediocre Dexterity. She's gotten a better AC now, if only because the party threw all the AC bonus Magic Items at her. She's somewhere between Lawful Good and Neutral Good, but that's hardly a problem since I'm the DM and I houseruled away those stupid alignment restrictions on the Barbarian and Monk classes anyway.
|
I've made an Ironskin / Qinggong Monk for my Kingmaker game, and she's far more a "Hit hard and Sunder stuff" kind of character than a tank. The natural armor bonus isn't very good, coupled with her rather mediocre Dexterity. She's gotten a better AC now, if only because the party threw all the AC bonus Magic Items at her. She's somewhere between Lawful Good and Neutral Good, but that's hardly a problem since I'm the DM and I houseruled away those stupid alignment restrictions on the Barbarian and Monk classes anyway.
What, a DMPC? Oh, this is gonna be fun :)
It's worked out so far, the players haven't been bothered by her either.
They actually asked me to create a DM PC, since they wanted a traditional 4-man party.
I believe I've mentioned this before on other threads related to the Kingmaker AP, so there's that.
How do feel about meeting your concept with little to no Monk levels?
Do you have a set list of things you would like to do?
I don't really have anything in particular in mind currently. I know I want what MoMS can give me, which is some cool fighting styles that could synergize to make a greater fighting Style. I think Dragon and Snake fit that so far, but from there I have no real clue. I could keep going with Monk and I'd probably end up picking up either Tiger, Boar, or Panther style, depending on whether I wanted to be more mobile, damaging, or defensive (more retaliatory I suppose). I know I won't be as good at hitting hard like a Barbarian or something, but I should be passable and with Snake Style and its later feats I should be pretty hard to hit.
I'm going to guess you'd probably suggest I do Unarmed Fighter or something for the BaB bonus and loads of Feats?
I've made an Ironskin / Qinggong Monk for my Kingmaker game, and she's far more a "Hit hard and Sunder stuff" kind of character than a tank. The natural armor bonus isn't very good, coupled with her rather mediocre Dexterity. She's gotten a better AC now, if only because the party threw all the AC bonus Magic Items at her. She's somewhere between Lawful Good and Neutral Good, but that's hardly a problem since I'm the DM and I houseruled away those stupid alignment restrictions on the Barbarian and Monk classes anyway.
That does actually sound pretty cool. So she just kind of throws down and breaks stuff all over? Gah. There's so much stuff you can build even a single class for in this game it's hard to choose.
And I like DM PCs, even with a few house rules to liven things up. I always thought it was good that the GM gets to participate in the game, as far as he follows all the important rules (no fudging the dice in their favor and spontaneous resurrections or anything). In our current game our GM decided we needed a Cleric so he rolled one up. Completely legit, except he utterly hates preparing spells so he just said screw it and plays it as mostly a Spontaneous caster. Nothing too over the top, since he very rarely casts the same spell more than once a day unless it's "Cure ___ Wounds", which is possible under Cleric rules anyway I believe, I just thought it was funny.
Pushing this back up because I'd like to hear Blackblood's idea for the build.
Well, MoMS is really only good for a two level dip.
What about a Heretic Inquisitor/Unarmed Fighter?
Nab the Torture Subdomain, and follow it up with the Boar Style feats for Intimidate madness.
Nab some light armor with the Brawling property to pump unarmed strikes.
Hm, that might be interesting, but I'm not sure I want it for this character specifically. I have a Monk 4 currently (this character is sort of a backup that I put more effort into. If I die I don't really want to swap classes mid-campaign. Also, I may be able to get my GM to just let me use this guy.) and I was thinking of switching to Unarmed Fighter next level, so I may switch to Heretic Inquisitor instead/in addition to on that one.
Are set on focusing on Unarmed Strikes?
Also, are you set on Human?
Yes to the first, not necessarily to the second. If you have a good race in mind I'd love to hear it, but I am limited to the core races currently.
^That was my third choice for Style. I really wished I could get it for my current Monk but my Cha is at a -2 mod, so...
Dragon/Snake/Boar does sound really fun. And if I were to bring him into this campaign it wouldn't be TOO terribly long before I could fuse 3 Styles. We tend to level up every 2-3 sessions, depending on how big the battles are.
Our GM likes Medium XP progression but is very generous for XP rewards divided among 6 (7 now) characters.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
|
If you can play non-core races, my two favorites would be Nagaji or Oni-Spawn Tiefling.
Nagaji boost your Charisma and Strength, get a slightly higher AC and +2 to Perception.
The Oni-Spawn Tiefling improves Wisdom and Strength at a cost of Charsima; for Intimidate this is offset by a +2 skill boost to it. You also get Alter Self once a day; basically that nets you +2 to Strength when you want it. You can also mix up the racials (Prehensile Tail is a solid choice, Armored Skin isn't bad either) if you wish.
Heretic Inquisitor/MoMS works too.
Choose the Conversion or Heresy Inquisition, and use Wisdom for Intimidate.
Boar Style for intimidate.
If you go Half-Orc or Dwarf, the nab a Wand of Darkness, and pick up the Nightmare Fist feat.
I should be able to do that with my current guy then, he is a Half-Orc.
This should definitely be fun then, thanks.
As it turns out, my GM likes the idea and has ok'd Sun Xiao to replace Navorak once we depart from this hellish island we have found ourselves on (or if I die, whichever happens first).
So I've bumped him up to level 4:
Sun Xiao
Human Monk 1 (Master of Many Styles/Drunken Master/Qinggong)
Str: 18
Dex: 14
Con: 15
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Cha: 12
HP: 38 (haven't applied possible Toughness or HP per level bonuses)
Ac: 16
Feats:
Dragon Style
Dragon Ferocity
Snake Style
Snake Fang
Scorching Ray (replaced Slow Fall)
Debating Toughness, Improved Initiative, or Elemental fist (I think I can get 5 Feats total)
Skills:
(+2 Int, +1 Human, 4 from Monk = 7 per level, correct? So I should have 28 Skill Points if I take the HP per level.)
6 Ranks in Acrobatics (+11 total)
3 Ranks Climb (+10 total)
4 Ranks Knowledge religion (+9 total) <---This one has come in handy a LOT with all these temples and stuff the whole AP seems built around.
6 Ranks Perception (+12 total)
6 Ranks Sense Motive (+14 total, factoring in Snake Style)
3 Ranks Swim (+10 total)
What's everyone think?