feedback?
I could be wrong, but I believe he means a typical adventuring party. Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard.
Or at least melee, skill monkey, divine caster, arcane caster.
Is there an adventure path which isn't? Doesn't mean you have to play it that way, but the designers have to assume you can cover the basics.
I thought I remember reading somewhere that stuff was now being balanced for a group of 6 and not 4... or is that only PFS games?
Creative Director
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Pretty much EVERY adventure path is designed to reward a well-rounded party (with an assumption of 4 players). On top of that, we try to include elements in every AP that give every class a bit to shine.
PFS games are now written with the assumption of 6 players because that lets a convention host a lot more players without as many GMs.
Will it ever be the case that any PFS games are compiled and released? Or are they already released? I havent looked. I just wondered if there will ever be stuff intended for larger groups, since many groups have 6 players.
Our group did for years. But then a friend and his son moved for a new job and so there are only 4 of us. So the adventure paths are fine for us. But if we still had 6, we would have to deal with figuring out how to scale stuff up.
I thought I remember reading somewhere that stuff was now being balanced for a group of 6 and not 4... or is that only PFS games?
ugh, I hope 4 is enough, don't think I could play more than that by myself :/
I could be wrong, but I believe he means a typical adventuring party. Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard.
Or at least melee, skill monkey, divine caster, arcane caster.
Exactly.or characters that fill those roles at the very least.
Exactly.or characters that fill those roles at the very least.I could be wrong, but I believe he means a typical adventuring party. Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard.
Or at least melee, skill monkey, divine caster, arcane caster.
It's generally assumed that the party is somewhat set up like that.
That does not mean you need those four though.
There are classes that can fill more roles though. A witch for example can be the healer and arcane caster or a Paladin can be fighter and healer, while a bard is a bit of all.
As GM you may have to adjust an encounter here or there if the party deviates to much into one direction or the other, but best to just let the players play whatever they enjoy.
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Yeah, many campaigns feature some or more of these, but only RotRL has all of the following:
- cults
- coleridge
- cosmic horror
- dungeoneering
- forensic investigation
- giants
- goblins
- high-level magic
- killer melee bosses
- lamias (also killer melee bosses)
- mountaineering
- lovecraft
- outsiders
- planar hijinx
- thassilonian ruins
- urban horror
- wilderness woes
And of course mister K.
I don't know about about traditional or nontraditional parties(though I prefer a garden party), but if you think your choice of adventurers have the stones to take on all of that then you're golden.
I'd say that yeah, the "cornerstone 4" were in mind for this AP, though a Paladin makes for a very good replacement for the Fighter. Having a Good Cleric instead of a Neutral or Evil one will also prove beneficial (for flavor, I reccomend Desna) and a Rogue/Ninja is always good if traps start getting tedious, which they sometimes tend to do. If the DM allows, taking a Ranger with a trait that gives him/her the Disable Device skill as a class skill would make a good replacement Rogue and Skill Monkey.
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A dwarven ranger is a good addition and a worthwhile main melee character as well, since the campaign contains some very classic racial enemies.
Indeed, if I were to concoct the perfect party for this AP, now that it's been a couple of years since the end of our RotRL stint, it would consist of a dwarf ranger following the favored enemy choices of the player's guide, a combat cleric of either Desna or Erastil, a conjurer specializing in summoning meaty things from beyond to hinder foes and a smarmy face character with archery and troubleshooting in mind, an inquisitor or a bard perhaps. Paladin/bard might be interesting. A shelynite one, naturally.
I would have joined a RotRL run with my friends, but the DM proved to be too troublesome to play with (as in, playing with him wasn't fun) so we had to leave the plan behind. Our group would have consisted of a Human Barbarian (forgot exact details on this one), a Tiefling Ninja (Lawful Neutral, highly trained Chelish assassin lady), a Tiefling Wizard (Neutral Evil, an arrogant and vengeful member of a fallen Chelish noble house, would probably have turned True Neutral thanks to character development) and a Chaotic Good Elf Cleric of Desna (who'd probably have tried to help the Tiefling Wizard with her problems in the long run). I hope to find a decent DM who'd wanna run with this group some day.
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Having a Good Cleric instead of a Neutral or Evil one will also prove beneficial
This is true of almost any AP or adventure.
Channel positive energy is far more usable than channel negative energy (barring your entire party being dhampirs or undead...), and the ability to spontaneously convert prepared spells to cures (which everybody uses) is vastly more useful than the ability to spontaneously convert them to inflicts (which nobody uses).
Even in an 'evil game', playing a shady neutral cleric of a neutral god who can choose to channel positive energy (and spontaneously cure) is going to be the superior option (again, barring an all-undead / dhampir party, and, even then, an evil channeler is still gonna suck if you've got druids, summoners, conjurers, cavaliers, rangers, familiars, pack mules, riding mounts, cohorts, squires, etc. in the party).
The only real downside is that you are vulnerable to unholy blight / unholy word type spells (which your demon/devil/evil cleric foes will likely be using at higher levels) and your summoning list is way smaller than if you played an evil or (especially) neutral cleric, otherwise, team good all the way, 'cause it's flat out mechanically better.
a Tiefling Ninja (Lawful Neutral, highly trained Chelish assassin lady),
That sounds like a funky way of fitting a ninja into the Avistani cultures! Neat!
Taldor and, especially, Qadira, might also be interesting places to include that sort of thing. A 'Kelish princess' / hashashin could be funky, or perhaps even an Osirioni who slips into and out of the servant caste to infiltrate homes and bring death to those who defy whatever authority they serve (religious, secular, other).
a Tiefling Ninja (Lawful Neutral, highly trained Chelish assassin lady),That sounds like a funky way of fitting a ninja into the Avistani cultures! Neat!
Credit for that idea goes to the guy who created the character.
The DM we left actually complained about a Ninja being in Avistan.I think you can see why we left him. I mean, aside from me mentioning him and his offenses before.
All classes and alignments are acceptable for my group, I just don't like 3rd party stuff. Great advice btw and I Love martial Dwarf characters!Was thinking also, Life Oracle doubling as a face, buff and debuff. A Master summoner OR conjurer wizard for obvious reasons. A vanilla rogue for trapfinding. Other options I've thought of have been inquisitor and cavalier(teamwork based)Fighter, Ninja(don't like the lack of trapfinding though),Paladin(we run variant alignment rules)and so as a possible solo character I don't want to run more than 4 at a time and I'm having trouble choosing. Note these are just basic ideas on class haven't gotten to race or skill and feat selection yet!
Our RotRL party has gone through several iterations - most due to character deaths with a few due to changing work situations.
We've never had a fighter or a wizard and are now playing with neither a cleric nor a rogue. Our current party composition is:
human samurai (wields katana two-handed)
human monk (mobile striker and grappler)
goblin paladin (mounted archer)
human oracle (of the heavens, divine support and battlefield control)
halfling witch (elements patron, dearly loves blasting. To the point that the samurai has been painting fire safety signs and displaying them prominently wherever they camp.)
In our current iteration we're a bit light on some skills (which has required some creativity on our part) but the AP is fun and playable regardless. Actually, we've always enjoyed the AP even with the wild swings of party composition and outlook.
I'd say a Wizard is not only essential (though other classes may do his thing) but it's extremely appropriate thematically. I have a player with a human transmuter wizard character, and I managed to squeeze a tome on Thassilonic magic early on the campaign. He jumped at the opportunity, conducting creepy rituals to "remove the magical impurities of lesser spells" and become a true Thassilonian Specialist.
Also, there is a half-elf ranger with goblin and giant favored enemies (and a weird interesting build involving an elven curve blade, STR 10 and Power Attack).
Paladins also kick major butt. There are plenty of evil outsiders/undead or just evil folk on the AP (very few enemies are neutral or good) for them to smite. The one on my campaign managed to grapple a demon to death.
I also threw in a couple extra traps on the first module to validate the rogue's skills and let him do his thing.
Bard(Archaeologist) has Trapfinding.
My RotL group was going to have:
Dwarven Paladin(Divine Hunter).
Gnome(or Halfling) Bard(Archaeologist).
Elven Wizard(Conjurer).
Dwarven Ranger(Archery).
Dwarven Cleric(TN Channel Positive).
Would a dispelling wizard paired with a character who has disable device but not trapfinding work for magical traps?
Would a dispelling wizard paired with a character who has disable device but not trapfinding work for magical traps?
Well Conundrum... That is well... a Conundrum...
It depends on the GM and whether or not you can easily find the Trap. I would allow it, but some GMs require Trapfinding to be able to use Disable Device to disarm a trap.
yes, I'm saying a character(anyone with disable device and sufficient perception) find s the trap, points it out to the wizard who then targets the trap with either dispel magic or other magical countermeasure to remove the magic, and then if need the person with DD removes the now mundane trap if necessary.
As a means of forgoing a class or archetype that grants trapfinding while still managing to deal with magical traps. Don't want a class just for magical traps, rather play something i enjoy better if there are alternative methods to approach this issue in game.
Ask your GM. Though based on what I gather you will be able to.
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To the OP's question, If I said "no", what would that even mean?
To the OP's question, If I said "no", what would that even mean?
Mind = blown.
That would mean that the AP was not designed with the four basic party roles in mind. Next?
That would mean that the AP was not designed with the four basic party roles in mind. Next?
Can you give me an example adventure content from any version of the game where this is true, and what are the implications thereof?
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Mind? Reblown.
Seriously, though the mechanics were written with a party that has a number of primary and secondary roles covered. The classic four (fighter/rogue/cleric/wizard) tends to cover these by default pretty well. Now, given more classes and a huge number of archetypes and options it is easy to build a PC that works mechanically in an entirely different way than you'd expect from reading their class title.
If you'd like to run a RotRL party that doesn't cover one or more of the classic roles (i.e., tank, striker, healer, battlefield control) then you'll have to find alternate ways to overcome obstacles. Some groups really dig this and run non-conventional parties on purpose to enjoy the challenge. Alternatively (as in one of my campaigns), other groups might forget a role or two by omission and either have come up with great solutions or just muddle through with a higher character death rate, perhaps evolving towards a balanced party as replacement characters are brought in.
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My players are playing:
Dwarven Cleric of Abadar (I think) - he is taking a one-level dip in fighter.
Dwarven Ranger
Eleven Summoner
Half-Elf Sorcerer
For the first half of chapter one, they've been a pretty strong group. We'll see how things go for the second half. I suspect they'll be able to hold their own throughout the whole adventure, but I definately see some sticky spots, especially towards the ends (though I think this will mostly be due to an inexperience at high-level play rather than class choice).
I can't see any way around lack of a healer, I really don't like not having an Arcane spell caster, the other 2 are somewhat more malleable but still. Now in regards to an Arcane spellcaster,this seems more necessary than usual in this particular case because the campaign BBEG is an UBER caster right and if I'm not mistaken and arcane one, so it seems to best counter that you need a POTENT arcane caster in the party, first to mind being wizard or sorcerer. My problem is I feel a master summoner might be more fun starting out but may not have the true "GOD-LIKE" might of a full arcane caster at the end when it would seemingly count the most. Am I wrong?
Ok. Guess I was kind of guessing a master summoner could mitigate damage with a plethora of summoned creatures, but if you have played the AP and I have not yet I would tend to take your word for it.
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Well, I haven't played it all the way through so take me with a grain of salt. I see what yore saying with the master summoner. Having the extra action economy will certainly help. I've got to say, the summoner in my group was kicking some serious butt with her summoned creatures (she hasn't called the eidolon yet).