Sanity Check #3 - Spell Casting

[Helaman]

This will be one of several 'sanity checks' I'll make for proposed house rules. I am hoping you will throw in your 2 coppers. I've a pretty thick hide and can take some hard truths if you decide to dish them out.

** PEACH: Please Evaluate and Critique Honestly

Following on the heels of my spell items (thats still up in the air atm) I thought I continue in the caster theme and get ready to take a bit of a beating... “Nerf-ing” Spells and Spell casters tends to be a sore point for many players. I am not anti caster but at the same time I want to make magic more special and just a bit more challenging to fit in the ‘low magic’ theme. I am hoping that magic when it does get used successfully, feels a bit more special while giving 'mobility' back to the martial classes.

At the same time I've included something that makes metamagic a little more flexible for the casters.

Magical power is waning – its golden age long past and only scholars can speculate if will return again. Both the difficulties in tapping into high level magics and limited resources of the right quality mean that the majority of magic items are antiques. Some speculate that the fall of Aroden has led to this decline.

Here are the relevant house rules pertaining to magic and spell casting.

Casting as an obvious action

Spoiler:

Spell casting is obvious, with the exception of metamagic feats to quieten the spell or remove the need for moving your hands, spells must be spoken in a clear strong voice (not a whisper) and require arcane gestures, and likely the use of material components.

This makes casting intent pretty well known. Depending on the circumstances this can be seen as hostile an act as drawing a weapon.

Attempts at bluff to disguise intent can be made at DC20 + Spell Level or stealth to hide the movements and keep down the loudness of your voice can likewise be made at the same DC.

Casting and initiative

Spoiler:

Spells have a generic initiative penalty of -1 per level of the spell cast. Use your standard initiative and simply declare the spell to be cast. On the adjusted initiative turn you act, move etc and cast the spell. This may open up casters to additional grief so additional care must be taken.

The Quicken Spell Feat in addition to the normal benefits, negates this penalty.

Spell Rarity

Spoiler:

All core spells are available and can be learned as normal. Spells from the APG are considered to be rare and spells from other sources considered to be unique. This makes new spells from outside the Core rules something exciting and to be cherished... and even 'mediocre' spells can always be traded with others for more desirable spells.

Rare spells reflect effects that are not normally seen, divine powers not normally granted, or have highly specialized effects. In general, most spellcasters are unfamiliar with a specific rare spell until it is actually seen in use (or described in detail by a witness). Unless noted elsewhere, all spells from the Advanced Player’s Guide are rare.

Unique spells reflect the fruits of independent spell research, whether arcane or divine. Such spells are generally known only to the individual creator, or to a small cabal of individuals who have learned the spell directly from the creator. Once a unique spell is learned beyond a small cabal and begins to be circulated widely, it is considered 'rare' instead though some divine magics may continue only within their Faith, wide spread though the knowledge is.

Unless noted elsewhere, any spell published in any other official Paizo supplement (other than the Core Rulebook or APG) should be considered unique.

Spellcraft or knowledge checks to identify common spells or their effects have normal DC. The DC to identify an umfamiliar rare spell is 5 higher, and that of a unique spell is 10 higher. Dispelling or counterspelling rare or unique spells is otherwise normal.

A wizard can add a rare or unique spell to his or her spellbook normally by finding the spell in another wizard’s spellbook or on a spell scroll. Any arcane caster can learn a rare or unique spell through independent spell research.

When an arcane spellcaster gains a level, he or she may freely select from common spells as his or her free new spells.

When leveling up, an arcane spellcaster can also learn a rare or unique spell as one of their two bonus spells by having it in a captured spell book, spell scroll, or directly from another caster. At other times, standard rules apply.

Priestly casters also can 'learn' up to two such spells a level if they have access to such

Some casters attempt to broaden their selection of rare spells by finding them in an arcane or priestly library. Finding a rare spell in this manner doesn’t cost money (other than any fee to access the library), but assuming they discover such a spell, it takes two days per spell level and requires a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level; caster may not take 10) to attempt to learn the spell. If the check fails, the caster may keep trying and make another check every two days, but three failures in a row means that particular spell cannot be learned from that particular library for that level.

Research into unique spells requires a spellcaster to make a DC25 + level research check and will take a game month per level of the spell as well as a 1000gp per spell level. Such an attempt can be made once per level for that particular spell. Circumstance bonuses can apply with the right resources on hand.

Casting while moving

Spoiler:

Taking more than a 5ft step when casting requires a concentration check of 10 + spell level, the same as if subject to vigorous motion while casting (DC15 + spell level). The feat ‘Combat Casting’ aids casters in making the concentration check for movement.

Metamagic via Open slots in prepared casters

Spoiler:

Casters of all sorts can leave spell slots open, instead of memorising a specific spell. That open slot can be filled with 15 minutes time to pray or study for a spell already known to fulfill a specific need or can either be used to power spells with metamagic feats on the fly.

Spontaneous metamagic, used this way consumes the base spell cast as well as an open slot of the level what the spell would have been if the feat was used. This does not change the advantage that sorcerers have when using metamagic feats as they do not need to leave a slot open.

For example, the Still Spell metamagic feat adds one level to the casting level. A first level spell can be memorised as a 2nd level spell slot and cast as normal with the metamagic effect applied… or the caster could leave a 2nd level slot open and can cast any of their level one spells as needed as a still spell, consuming the level 1 spell cast, AND the open 2nd level slot.

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Also in this series
Sanity Check #1 - Encumberance
Sanity Check #2 - Spell Focus Items

[Dominigo]

Well, these are certainly interesting. Let's start from the top.

Obvious Casting:

Casting as an obvious action includes some things I have always been disappointed weren't in the base rules, like attempting to disguise what kind of spell you are casting and the like. The ability to use stealth to make the vocal and somatic components less obvious is neat, but it can quickly start to tread on the toes of Silent and Still metamagic feats. It's a neat idea, but I would personally make it more like the Bluff to disguise the intent. Muffling speech and making the movements less pronounced might make it harder to tell if the caster is casting Resist Energy: Fire or Scorching Ray, and might make it go unnoticed to someone with poor visibility of the caster or in a loud room, but in a private encounter, it shouldn't match the metamagics.

Slow Casting:

This is an interesting idea. It will increase the amount of teamwork required by the party if they want their arcane support to be effective. Additionally, it will reduce the number of spells per encounter casters will get to cast slightly, since they will occasionally drop their initiative enough that by the last round of combat they won't get their turn before someone else finishes the fight.
Here is the main problem I see though. What happens if the caster starts on initiative 2 and tries to cast a level 3 spell? Are they allowed to go down into the negatives as far as they want? If so, then once they are at the bottom of each round, this mechanic stops functioning. Do they loop back to the top at some point, and if so, what are the loop points? With Intiative bonuses potentially ranging between -5 and +15 on various creatures, this will be important to define. The could say that they loop when they drop below the lowest initiative other than their own, they loop to the initiative 1 higher then the current highest, but this means that how fast they loop changes with the initiative bonuses of involved creature. My gut is just to say the loop back to 20 when they drop below 0, but that's up to you.
You could also consider in adding a lesser version of Quicken Spell that just lowers the initiative penalty of casting a spell.

Spell Rarity:

This all looks good to me. I would suggest that you make sure your group is ok with it before starting, and I might recommend looking at the Spell Research in UM if you haven't already to compare what you have with their mechanics.

Casting while moving:

This looks fine, too. It will mostly be a problem for low CL characters. Higher level characters will likely shatter those checks without trying if they are dedicated, but for new characters it could easily be a problem, especially if they are trying to use touch spells in combat since Cast>Move>Touch is now harder. Make sure any players are aware of this before they choose their spells.

Open Metamagic slots:

This is a neat idea, and I like it. It certainly makes the prepared casters much better at metamagics, more like a spontaneous caster, but its at cost of additional spell slots. There are times where I could see this being too good, but that has more to do with how the DM designs the game rather than the ability itself. Only thing I would add is that casting a spell they spontaneously metamagiced should probably be a Full-Round action to cast, just like for a normal spontaneous caster or when a wizard uses his arcane bond to cast a metamagiced spell.

I'll go check out your other two threads and see what you have. See if I can get you more input.

[Helaman]

I'll throw this out for another round of PEACH and then re-evaluate.

[TeShen]

I'm just going to throw out my impressions...

Obvious casting. I can dig it.

Casting and initiative. You've just gone from initiative boosting being a good idea to initiative boosting being a necessity. The number of diviners will jump dramatically, as well as casters with improve initiative and the Compsognathus familiar, as well as the traits that give a +2 to initiative.

I do agree that higher level spells should be harder to cast, but that's why you have the attribute requirement. I would probably try and come up with a different mechanic to make higher level spells more... intensive.

Spell rarity. I think it achieves your goal of making magic more secretive and rare... though I do think that the gp cost seems high. It takes more gold to research a new 1st level spell than to scribe a 9th level spell? Come on now...

Casting while moving. I mostly agree with Dominigo.

Open Metamagic Slots. No. No. No. I wonder if I am misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you allow wizards to add metamagic on the fly but charge spontaneous casters twice for a feature that already costs actions.

[Helaman]

TeShen wrote:

I'm just going to throw out my impressions...

Obvious casting. I can dig it.

Casting and initiative. You've just gone from initiative boosting being a good idea to initiative boosting being a necessity. The number of diviners will jump dramatically, as well as casters with improve initiative and the Compsognathus familiar, as well as the traits that give a +2 to initiative.

I do agree that higher level spells should be harder to cast, but that's why you have the attribute requirement. I would probably try and come up with a different mechanic to make higher level spells more... intensive.

Spell rarity. I think it achieves your goal of making magic more secretive and rare... though I do think that the gp cost seems high. It takes more gold to research a new 1st level spell than to scribe a 9th level spell? Come on now...

Casting while moving. I mostly agree with Dominigo.

Open Metamagic Slots. No. No. No. I wonder if I am misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you allow wizards to add metamagic on the fly but charge spontaneous casters twice for a feature that already costs actions.

Food to thought. On the metamagic you are right - they don't get spontaneous casting but they do get spontaneous metamagic ASSUMING they leave an open slot (that cant be used unless they fill it with the study of a spell later in the day) to power it. They pay the normal cost of the spell + the cost of the spell slot to power it at the appropriate level.

It sorta digs into the sorcerers niche some but a Wizard who tries to act like a sorcerer when it comes to metamagic for more than a spell slot or two will find themselves less effective that the sorcerer and a wizard both.

working on these.