Cleric Domains and Spells

[Crank]

I know this topic has been touched on in the past, but I'd like some clarification.

Do clerics get their Domain Spells every time they level up, regardless of if they could normally use it? Or do they have to wait until they could normally use it?

For example, one of my players chose the Fire Domain. Table 3-5 (pg. 40) of the Core Rulebook suggests that he can't use Produce Flame until 3rd level and Fireball until 5th (based on the "+1" rule). But the text on page 44 makes it sound like he can use Fireball at 3rd level.

If a cleric can't use the Domain Spell until they meet the normal requirements, then what good are domains like the Healing Domain? Cure Moderate Wounds is a 2nd level cleric spell but Table 3-5 suggests the cleric is given it as a "bonus" at 3rd level. Why take it at 3rd level when you can take it at 2nd?

Thanks in advance for any clarification you can provide!

[Jiggy]

Left-Handed Lenny wrote:

I know this topic has been touched on in the past, but I'd like some clarification.

Do clerics get their Domain Spells every time they level up, regardless of if they could normally use it? Or do they have to wait until they could normally use it?

For example, one of my players chose the Fire Domain. Table 3-5 (pg. 40) of the Core Rulebook suggests that he can't use Produce Flame until 3rd level and Fireball until 5th (based on the "+1" rule). But the text on page 44 makes it sound like he can use Fireball at 3rd level.

The level listed next to each domain spell under that domain's description is the spell level, not the cleric's level. So in the Fire domain, when it says "3rd-fireball", it means that fireball is a 3rd-level domain spell, not the domain spell for when the cleric is 3rd level. The cleric needs to be at least 5th level (having access to 3rd level spells) to get fireball as a domain spell.

Quote:

If a cleric can't use the Domain Spell until they meet the normal requirements, then what good are domains like the Healing Domain? Cure Moderate Wounds is a 2nd level cleric spell but Table 3-5 suggests the cleric is given it as a "bonus" at 3rd level. Why take it at 3rd level when you can take it at 2nd?

Again, cleric level and spell level don't match. When the cleric hits 3rd level, that's when he first gains access to 2nd-level spells, domain or not. A 2nd-level cleric can not cast 2nd-level spells.

Does that help?

[Cheapy]

Ok, seems like there's a few bits of confusion at work here. Let's straighten them out!

The domain spells are listed as their spell level that they're available at. Once the cleric can cast that level of spell, they get access to the spell listed in their domain(s).

So! With the fire domain we see "3rd - fireball". This means that once the cleric can cast 3rd level spells, they can prepare fireball in their domain slot for that spell level.

Clerics get 3rd level spells when they have 5 levels in the cleric class, which means that they'll be able to cast fireball at 5th level.

Regarding the healing domain and what good they are: Honestly not too much. Effectively, they allow you to prepare one extra healing spell per level. However, if you have the healing domain, chances are you are able to spontaneously convert Cure Wounds line of spells, meaning you can turn every single spell slot other than the Domain slot into a cure wounds spell if you want. So the spells given by the healing domain really aren't that great.

[Crank]

Thanks, guys! That's a huge help. Failing to separate "cleric level" from "spell level" was the key to my confusion.

I pondered over it last night but couldn't reconcile it with the fact that some domains (like Healing) appeared very weak. I thought for sure these domains couldn't be so weak, so there must be a problem with the table. Nope! Glad I'm not the only one who noticed.

Thanks again!

[David knott 242]

In my experience, clerics with the Healing domain usually prepare spells from their other domain in their domain slots. The only exception I recall seeing was when a cleric with the Fire and Healing domains knew that the major enemy we would be facing the next day was a dragon that was immune to fire -- so he prepared those Healing domain spells in his domain slots.

[Stubs McKenzie]

There are certain bonus and domains spells given that are normally only accessible to a certain level class that the specific build will get earlier than others... if that is the case, that spell will be cast at the spell level it was given.

The only for instance i can remember off the top of my head is a Life Oracle, who gains neutralize poison one spell level earlier than normal (3rd instead of 4th?). It was clarified that it was a mistake, and the oracle in question therefore casts neutralize poison from the spell level it was given, not the normal level of the spell.