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I need a few clarifications:
1. Can silent image be a moving image like a campfire swaying in the breeze or a guard pacing back and forth? Or is it simply a static "photograph" you can move within range?
2. Under the illusion rules for figment, you have to have personally seen the image you create. If my character never saw a real dragon, can he conjure one from his imagination?
3. A figment also cannot make something look like something else so... I could make a wall in front of me, but not "cover" a pit trap? I cannot make a fire look like a pool? I can't make a door, look like the surrounding walls.
I have a few more examples, but basically a lot of the "suggestions" I see online for using this spell creatively simply are against the rules. So for my last question...
4. Is silent image as versatile as everyone says, or are many people simply using it incorrectly?
Thanks. "New to Pathfinder, old-time gamer"
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odd, I've not read any restrictions like what you have stated. per PRD
This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you. The illusion does not create sound, smell, texture, or temperature. You can move the image within the limits of the size of the effect.
You most certainly can make a wall image, or cover a pit, etc.
if you'll not, there simply is no restriction on the image, and you can superimpose it over something else, ie why it is so versatile. You could make a fire look like a pool, of course as any critter gets near it, they will feel the heat.
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1) The spell says you can move the image...so yeah you can move the image...within the range of the spell in anycase.
2) You can TRY...but weither it looks like a real dragon to somebody who has seen one is another matter entirely. That is what knoweldge skills are for. And image you made up in you head is still an image you have seen before. You can make an image of a giant purple plushy dinosaur and bluff to claim it is the destroyer of worlds if you so wish...weither anyone believes you is another matter.
3) You can't make the wall look like something else, but you can place a figment right in FRONT of the wall so it looks different. To make the wall itself look different, you would need a glamer spell. Same deal with the pit or fire.
4) No, it really REALLY is a powerful first level spell.
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Lantzkev, it's general illusion rules. The OP got it right mostly.
1. To be honest I am not sure. I believe that campfire is not within limits of the spell but in general you can create guard who is walking around but you have to keep up with concentration.
2. It depends. It's enough if you saw image in some book you have read about dragons, however, if you never ever heard of them, then you don't know how they look like. If you heard of them, but never saw them or some picture, then your image would look weird.
3.
- You can cover a pit trap, but you can't create a pit trap because that makes floor something which it isn't.
- You can create door over a wall (albeit slightly on the surface of it), but not door inside a wall.
- You can't make a fire look like a pool because that makes fire something which it isn't.
4. Silent Image covers only 1 aspect of Illusions which is visual perception. It creates no heat or smell and that should be noted. Silent Image can be used to create objects and make illusions over the real objects but cannot mask them.
Silent Image is as powerful as GM makes it powerful. It's almost completely GM's fiat.
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Thanks Malag, your post helped out, but seeing conflicting responses only serves to cloud the issue. I'm all for GM discretion, but when I try to put all of the rules for illusions and specifically for this spell together, it seems more limiting than some posters think.
SRD: "Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like"
My interpretation: I can make a realistic campfire, because I have seen one. I could make a red dragon, because I saw a drawing in the book...but it would look like the drawing. I don't think I could imagine a realistic eye tyrant into existence because you described it to me.
This is not a major issue for a wizard but the sorcerer wants to make the best use of his spell list. I have noticed that the D&D and PF versions of illusions and restrictions are not the same, it seems looser in D&D, maybe that's where some of the confusion comes in.
Thanks again, I'd still like some more input before I make my decision, but I'm still leaning toward a more restrictive version, not out of spite, but for the sake of consistency for the players. "But it worked last time" is a DM's nightmare.
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Here's the question that came up during character creation. The sorcerer wants to do this:
Free action: drop smokestick (fills 10' cube)
Move: move 6 squares away
Standard: Silent image of the smoke filling the maximum space possible, he disbelieves obviously
I see no problem with this, it seems to work, I'd even allow a saving throw penalty when his pursuers pass through the smoke into the fake smoke because of the other senses stimulated by the original smokestick.
So do enemies get a ST as soon as they pass into the silent image, or do they have to actively disbelieve.
Further, if the sorc can convince the PC's of the illusion, can they fire at the enemies in the Silent image without penalty and remain under the illusory concealment?
I see no issue with this use of the spell (besides the cost of the smokestick), but is this a case of "Figments cannot make something seem to be something else" ie clear air look like smoke?
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I have read tons of topics about Silent Image and seen many responses. Best thing to note is that it is still level 1 spell. It makes illusion which can trick the eyes but not the nose or ears and the most important thing to note is the question "Does it change object into something which it isn't?".
At best, Silent Image is used to trick someone for short time. It's nice to make a small list of tricks which you can use, on the paper, before game. My favorite trick is fence made of thorns or wall made of thorns, so nobody dares to touch it.
Edit: Droping smokestick is generaly standard action. If he starts to say how it's simple action by simply throwing it near his feet, tell him he needs to light it up, or however smokestick works. (I am not sure if you meant on real or illusionary smokestick)
Creating image of smoke/fog/mist or similar is undefined to me. I was thinking same thing myself before but it's "too good" I believe to be valid. If you do allow it, grant enemies Will Save immediately upon contact if you ask me.
"Further, if the sorc can convince the PC's of the illusion, can they fire at the enemies in the Silent image without penalty and remain under the illusory concealment?" - If players disbelieve illusion, they fire without penalty yes, but again, fog/smoke effects are "too good" to be true to me. They receive +4 bonus if they know it's an illusion, so they have to beat Sorcerer's DC first.
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In third edition D&D I used Silent Image to create an image of Darkness, as the spell. The bad guys got a save against it if they were caught in it (they were, that was the point!), and the party (apart from the sorcerer) had to make saves too, but theirs would be at +4 as they knew about her tactic. Those who failed their saves would act as if surrounded by darkness, those who made their saves could ignore it.
It was a way to get the baddies to fight in darkness while the goodies could see normally! It wasn't a given, though; even with a +4 it's possible that the PCs fail and the NPCs make! If so, she just changed the illusion so it was light again.
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You should read these articles.
All About Illusions (Part One)
All About Illusions (Part Two)
All About Illusions (Part Three)
All About Illusions (Part Four)
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Now that I think of, Haunting Mists is a figment which is also a Shadow and can create mist effect which is partially real meaning that Figment would have to be Shadow also for fog to be created.
There is nothing stoping your sorcerer from creating a small bush tho. Bushes offer total concealment or concealment. So if his party makes Will Saves they still get similar effect without creating the fog.
Do note that Silent Image has limited area size which can occupy. It gets higher with levels.
I need a few clarifications:
1. Can silent image be a moving image like a campfire swaying in the breeze or a guard pacing back and forth? Or is it simply a static "photograph" you can move within range?
In both cases yes, but in both cases one would need to be concentrating so long as everything was moving
2. Under the illusion rules for figment, you have to have personally seen the image you create. If my character never saw a real dragon, can he conjure one from his imagination?
Of course he can - he can create anything he can imagine... but if he's never seen one than anyone who has or knows anything about dragons should get a bonus to their save... also, there are no sound or thermal aspects to SI, and any movement would again require concentration.
3. A figment also cannot make something look like something else so... I could make a wall in front of me, but not "cover" a pit trap? I cannot make a fire look like a pool? I can't make a door, look like the surrounding walls.
Correct - but you could make a wall conceal an passageway or a doorway have a porticullis...
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You should read these articles.
All About Illusions (Part One)
All About Illusions (Part Two)
All About Illusions (Part Three)
All About Illusions (Part Four)
These were good (part 4 was the most helpful), but referred to the looser D&D rules, I know PF is really close, but the wording under illusion school is a bit more restrictive, I believe.
The smoke/fog thing is still a bit tricky, but I'm going to allow it for now, with an immediate saving throw once anyone enters the area. I don't think I'd allow darkness, that seems to break one or more of the restrictions somehow...
Thanks again friends.
1. Can silent image be a moving image like a campfire swaying in the breeze or a guard pacing back and forth?
Yes your silent image can be moving. It is often used to make fire or creatures.
2. Under the illusion rules for figment, you have to have personally seen the image you create. If my character never saw a real dragon, can he conjure one from his imagination?
You can try to make a dragon. It might even fool someone who also hasn't seen a dragon.
3. A figment also cannot make something look like something else so... I could make a wall in front of me, but not "cover" a pit trap? I cannot make a fire look like a pool? I can't make a door, look like the surrounding walls.
Yes you can't make a door look like the surrounding walls, but you could make an imaginary curtain that looks like it's hanging in front of the door. Or make debris that covers the wall. Such as broken bits of wood/stone.
A figment can cover a pit trap. place a rug over a pit trap it is then covered.
4. Is silent image as versatile as everyone says, or are many people simply using it incorrectly?
Yes, silent image is as versatile as everyone says.
All About Illusions:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Edit:
DARN you Bigkilla