Villain PCs


Advice

Liberty's Edge

So basically one character in my ongoing campaign has betrayed the party, and made a pact with the avatar of an imprisoned evil deity (Rovagug) to gain power. He's a half-Devil with red Dragon lineage and has convinced the red dragonflight local to the area to make a temporary alliance with him (he rolled very well for his one) after another party member killed one of the dragon's relatives, as he seeks revenge on the party and to escape the island they are all stuck on. In addition the player has powers roughly equivalent to the Sharingan from Naruto, and can become ethereal for a few rounds at will, as well as use Devil telepathy, See in Darkness and all the nastiness from levels in Ninja.

On his own he was able to slaughter most of the town guardsmen and hold off the party. He brought an important artifact to the avatar and this has allowed the undead army to shatter the magical ward and amass outside the main city and to enter, and obviously they're intent on completely wrecking the city and leaving absolutely nothing alive.

Is there any believable way I can tone down this PC's power and save the plot in this situation? The town has no realistic way of surviving, but it's crucial for some unresolved plot hooks I had there.

Liberty's Edge

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Honestly, at this point the character should become an NPC under your control and the player in question should roll up a new character.

Having a player play the antagonist among the other players won't end well.


willhob wrote:
Is there any believable way I can tone down this PC's power and save the plot in this situation?

I don't think believability is a worry at this point. The situation calls for an honest reset on your game and this player's cooperation in that reset would be very helpful. I suggest you have an open conversation with the player then with the group. Just my opinion.


I agree with Feral. This should be a NPC. Either that, or your campaign is completelly doomed.


Feral wrote:

Honestly, at this point the character should become an NPC under your control and the player in question should roll up a new character.

Having a player play the antagonist among the other players won't end well.

+1

And you can have an incredibly powerful NPC come to the town to save it from it's turmoil because he/she heard about it was bored and could always use a little extra coin in his purse and a city indebted to him/her if one character isn't enough than maybe a group of 2 or 3 of them and have them work with the PC's and split the EXP between all of them. Question though 1)How did he get powers equivalent to the Sharingan from Naruto is that home-brew?

2)How could this one PC hold off the entire part and kill that many guards if they should all be around the same level the PC's that is

Liberty's Edge

I see no reason to hand wave away the character. I like PCs turned super-villains. The problem is your players, no matter how mature they are, will not like competing against another player.

That said, do you need actual advice for how your players can combat this character because that should be the easy part.


Some players LOVE to compete with other players.

There's some chess to it when you play like that. How do I counter so and so's move this time?
As long as everyone is having fun and the story moves along...

If you HAVe to save the city, there are other hero groups in the world. Roll one up and save the world OR have them join temporarily with your PCs


The big question is if everybody is having fun. What I understand from OP, though, is that the betrayed players aren't getting fun. That's the problem.


Feral wrote:

Honestly, at this point the character should become an NPC under your control and the player in question should roll up a new character.

Having a player play the antagonist among the other players won't end well.

Right, Say “Hey thank you- he’s now one of my NPC’s- and the best part is, you now get to try and go stop him with your new PC!”

In the future, don’t let one of your players do this.


Will Pratt wrote:

Question though 1)How did he get powers equivalent to the Sharingan from Naruto is that home-brew?

2)How could this one PC hold off the entire part and kill that many guards if they should all be around the same level the PC's that is

I'm curious about this too. Is he just really that well optimized? Cause I would think that could be a problem again with another character this player makes. Also a Sharingan esque-ability sounds super broken, unless it's a combination of existing abilities/spells flavored as a Sharingan; in which case I just wanna know what's gone into it.

DrDeth wrote:

Right, Say “Hey thank you- he’s now one of my NPC’s- and the best part is, you now get to try and go stop him with your new PC!”

In the future, don’t let one of your players do this.

See, I don't think you should take away player options. If they want to do something like this, and have that big of an impact on the game/story they should be able to if they actually pull it off.

However, at this point I concur the character in question should be an NPC. They've done their part and made their impact. The OP should take a moment to talk with the player in question about their motivations, any particular long term plans they might have, and work with them to make this character a villian to remember. But beyond that, they shouldn't have any control over the character. You should change/level the character a few times to give it a few new tricks so the player doesn't know all the ins and outs of the character when he rolls a new one.


Darth Grall wrote:


DrDeth wrote:

Right, Say “Hey thank you- he’s now one of my NPC’s- and the best part is, you now get to try and go stop him with your new PC!”

In the future, don’t let one of your players do this.

See, I don't think you should take away player options. If they want to do something like this, and have that big of an impact on the game/story they should be able to if they actually pull it off.

.

What "options" did the other players have? It's a team game. Now sure, if this was a one-on-one game, fine. But the other three or so players don't seem all that happy about it.


DrDeth wrote:
What "options" did the other players have? It's a team game. Now sure, if this was a one-on-one game, fine. But the other three or so players don't seem all that happy about it.

They have(had) plenty of options. The opportunity to stop him, reason with him, persuade his allies to join them first, to make amends to the dragons; anything and everything they could think of. Assuming the PC was on level with the others, the threat this rogue player posed should have been minimumal, but not only did he overcome them, it looks like he has "jumped the rails" on the OP's story. I don't see how that's a bad thing, we as GMs have to overcome that and be adaptable in our story telling lest we just read stories to our players.

Also I think it's a bit of stretch to say that the "player don't seem all that happy about it", since the OP hasn't said what his players felt on the subject. The OP has instead asked us how to nerf his player and save his plot(which we've mostly suggested the player become an NPC at this point). Now you may have personally had bad experiences with interparty conflicts but: Unhappy DM != Unhappy Players.


Darth Grall wrote:
Also I think it's a bit of stretch to say that the "player don't seem all that happy about it", since the OP hasn't said what his players felt on the subject. The OP has instead asked us how to nerf his player and save his plot(which we've mostly suggested the player become an NPC at this point). Now you may have personally had bad experiences with interparty conflicts but: Unhappy DM != Unhappy Players.

Well, I go under the assumption that people don't like to be betrayed. But you are right, maybe the other players are having fun with PvP stuff.

So, my suggestion is: ask the rest of the players. If they don't like this, then tell the player he is an NPC now.

Quote:
Assuming the PC was on level with the others, the threat this rogue player posed should have been minimumal, but not only did he overcome them, it looks like he has "jumped the rails" on the OP's story. I don't see how that's a bad thing, we as GMs have to overcome that and be adaptable in our story telling lest we just read stories to our players.

Well, it depends. If I'm GMing Skull and Shackles, and one of the players take a ship and sails to Tien Xi, because he feels fancy to visit China, I say Farewell! to him, and I hope he find some other GM which want to run a game in Tien Xi where he can play his character. Because I'm not going to be playing two groups at the same time, one with all the characters but one in the Shackles, and then this guy in Tien Xi, and the rest of us are enjoying Skull and Shackles campaign.


My question would be: how could this PC be overpowered compared to the rest of the group? Because it sounds like he is. If this is the result of house rules, then I'm sorry, but you brought this on yourself.

The best way to solve it now is to either throw out the plot you had in mind and create a new one (promoting non-railroad gaming), or to yoink the particular PC character sheet and allow the player to create a new ally for the party while you take care of the villain (promoting a quick fix).

If you allow this player to continue his villainous ways and smush the rest of the party then you have an opportunity to make the other players roll up new characters allied with the villain and run your adventures from there. Might be fun!

If you don't allow this, make sure you are being diplomatic when you explain why - and take into consideration what the entire group wants. Having the rest of the players behind you on this will make it easier to convince the one player that you should run his villainous PC as an NPC. If the other players don't mind it could be more difficult and you'd have to consider if it's worth it to mess up the villainous PC's accomplishments just because you don't want to change your plots. BUT: the game should also feel right to YOU. You have a hard job as a GM and should have some fun too - make sure that you balance your wishes to those of the players and all will be well.

Good luck.


Well, the OP hasn't even answered once, so I'm not sure if this no longer worry him (or if it once did, to be honest)


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Start by apologising to the other players for letting things get to this point.

You favored the one player, granted him ridiculous abilities, abetted him shredding the social contract governing the game (we can only presume the other players weren't expecting things to turn PC vs PC) and affecting the fun of the other players. And you only want to do something about it now when it affects your specific plot lines?

Rovagug's followers want to literally end the world. Have them betray the betrayer or some such. Your at the point where you either kill off the single PC or convert him to NPC status.

Unless the whole game was PC vs PC from the start. Although in some ways thats even worse on your part for boosting one PC over the others.

Either way the real problem here seems to be you.

Liberty's Edge

Well I never intended for one player to become ridiculously more powerful than the others but that seems to be the end result. The entire party was pretty cheesed out with a lot of items that just flat out don't exist and stats that put them on level with minor deities. Honestly I think they collectively made a lot of bad tactical decisions when battling the betraying PC but just the same they almost killed him and his dragonflight. They almost stopped him. Balance-wise, the whole party is cheesed out and using items that often don't exist in the book.

He was forced to retreat after handing off the relic to the Big Bad, and it's believable that it will cost him game time to find the rest of the party again.

So the resolution I have is to let the players decide if they are all comfortable with a Villain PC and if not then I will not allow it, and seize the character as a villain, allowing his player to reroll.

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