Okay maybe I've stayed up too late recently but I had this crazy idea. I'm sure many will find this blasphemous, but here it is anyway.
It starts with removing the Monk class.
Then giving Unarmed Damage, Flurry of Blows (which is really just two-weapon fighting), and Stunning Fist to the Fighter.
Then giving the Ki Pool, Slow Fall, High Jump, and Abundant Step to Rogues.
It's not really unbalancing as a fighter needs to choose between using a weapon or their fists (which is generally less effective). Stunning Fist (I know it's already a feat) should have less restrictive prerequisites (which are only there so the fighter isn't stepping on the monk's toes) and be allowed to be modified (so the fighter can sicken, fatigue, and even deafen/blind) maybe with feats haven't really thought it through that much. Fighters should be able to just punch stuff more effectively than other classes (without jumping through hoops giving up proficiency with armor and weapons) in my mind.
Rogues can choose ki pool as a talent already (Though their ki pool sucks barrels compared to the rogue) but I'd like to see it set up in a more fashionable manner with their ki pool being based off of half rogue level + int modifier (I personally like the concept of an int based rogue, in the same vein I'd also like to add that searching for traps should add the int bonus). The Slow Fall, High Jump, and even Abundant Step (which should be an advanced talent) all even work with the flavor of the Rogue who is supposed to have mobility. Better rogue talents goes a long way to fixing the rogue's apparent weakness.
I have seen more gestalt monks than I have seen straight monks. The only straight monks I've seen had the 3.5 vow of poverty (and sometimes other vows). The gestalt monks I've seen only used half of the monk features (They're either a puncher or they're an dodger) and have backgrounds more fitting of a warrior or a rogue. Leading me to this strange, strange road...
Thoughts, likes, issues, or am I just insane?
I hate to say it but to all intents and purposes it is already there.
Ninja gets ki-pool, and earlier than the monk. Other than that every single monk ability can be duplicated at least in part by a magic item or feat. As an extra slap in the face, the unarmed fighter archetype even gets proficiency with ALL monk weapons, which even monks themselves don't get.
In hindsight...
The fighter should have been a core class with paladin, monk, barbarian and ranger archetypes.
I think this would have lead to less confusion.
I hate to say it but to all intents and purposes it is already there.
Ninja gets ki-pool, and earlier than the monk. Other than that every single monk ability can be duplicated at least in part by a magic item or feat. As an extra slap in the face, the unarmed fighter archetype even gets proficiency with ALL monk weapons, which even monks themselves don't get.
I hate the unarmed fighter archetype. Player's see the name and expect a boxing/wrestling type of character, only to find what is actually a full bab monk missing half of their stuff. I don't see why you have to be Asian to hit stuff harder.
Rogue ki also sucks since it's based purely on the wisdom, no level calculated into that ki (only Asians are allowed to calculate their level into their ki?) ,even with a monk who does have his level calculated into complain that there's not enough, and wisdom isn't even a good stat for rogues because 1)roleplay-wise most rogues rely on cleverness or charm not their patience, self-control, and shrewd judgement 2)the only thing that's key for rogues that uses intelligence is trap finding (which should really be intelligence) which isn't a big thing in most games because traps aren't so killer in pathfinder, can be triggered by other things, and trapfinders can be archetypes for other classes (ranger archetype is better suited for it than a rogue).
Also slow fall and high jump just mesh so well with a rogue. Rogues shouldn't have to go through extra hoops like magic items etc. It should be built in even if just as advanced talents.
Also after doing this, I should make a monk archetype for every class. Since monks are so all over the place, in the end this actually works very well to show the huge diversity of monks.
<.< What's the difference between a 'Boxer' and a Full BaB Monk without half it's stuff? THe Monk stuff doesn't seem to mesh well with it's self, so you can pretty much drop it.
As for 'Asian' stuff,v I think you should drop the 'Asian' thing from your posts. No monk I've thought up is in any way Asian. :P
Hitting stuff harder? Eh..Monks get bigger dice but Fighters get a better static bonus. Also, Monks are a little behind when trying to hit things with their fists.
Thoughts about your idea. Flurry of blows, I totally want this for a boxer (Fighter. Realistic? No. Why do I want it? So I can float better that a butterfly and (hopefully) sting better than a bee! :D
Seems the way the game is going. Unfortunately.
MA
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This is a great idea for a Wuxia campaign!
Effectively,you could have everyone be a gestalt character (from 3.5's Unearthed Arcana) with one of classes being monk. You end up with a game where everyone is jumping and tumbling and kung-fu fighting, but where their other "main" class become the focus of their character. I.e., a fighter would be a master of weapons, a wizard would be a wizened old martial arts master, etc.
If everyone knows what they're getting into, this could be a lot of fun. You could also split up the monk abilities, and allow everyone to pick two or three. I would also ditch the alignment restriction entirely, and watch out for weird archetype combos.
As for 'Asian' stuff,v I think you should drop the 'Asian' thing from your posts. No monk I've thought up is in any way Asian. :P
Even if you've come up with monk concepts that are in no way Asian, that doesn't stop the distinct Asian concept from being there.
First let us look at their weapon list, there are kama, nunchaku, sai, shuriken, siangham... Well that's pretty weird, also where do all those weapons come from? Tian Xia of course (which is just the Asian Conglomeration Continent AKA the "East" though technically in Jade Regent you go North to get there...)
Okay well that's just a weapon list. Well let's look at the features. It's a monk which outside of D&D refers to people who spend their lives devoted to temples and religion. That doesn't seem very much like an adventurer. Okay let's just overlook that little bit of fluff, maybe they're just adventuring monks.
Oh by the way, they get bonuses when they punch stuff... Okay, how can you say that this isn't a clear reference to Shaolin Monks and their Kung Fu, which fit all the fluff of the mechanics about the mixing of meditation, physical training, and martial arts with the term Monk.
Not only that, but with their slow fall and high jump they conjure up a certain genre of movie, ahem *cough* wuxia *cough*.
They use ki, the mystical spiritual inner power that allows them to go beyond human capability.
And if Quivering Palm doesn't scream Asian, then nothing will I guess...
Quivering palm always reminds me of jelly.
As for giving other classes monk abilities, there seems to already be enough bloat and ability spam in pathfinder. They barely fit into the level table anymore.
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This is a great idea for a Wuxia campaign!
Effectively,you could have everyone be a gestalt character (from 3.5's Unearthed Arcana) with one of classes being monk. You end up with a game where everyone is jumping and tumbling and kung-fu fighting, but where their other "main" class become the focus of their character. I.e., a fighter would be a master of weapons, a wizard would be a wizened old martial arts master, etc.
If everyone knows what they're getting into, this could be a lot of fun. You could also split up the monk abilities, and allow everyone to pick two or three. I would also ditch the alignment restriction entirely, and watch out for weird archetype combos.
The lawful alignment restriction for monk never really made sense to me. The monk is all about devotion. Devotion does not mean Lawful, otherwise clerics would have to be all Lawful as well.
I've actually have wanted to run an Japanese style game at some point with Yokai and Samurai (Cavalier/Knights), Ninja(Rogues), and Shinto(Oracles).
Quivering palm always reminds me of jelly.
As for giving other classes monk abilities, there seems to already be enough bloat and ability spam in pathfinder. They barely fit into the level table anymore.
Fighter has the smallest level tab ever! Have you seen it? It is one thing that could use a little stuffing. And adding rogue talents wouldn't change the rogue's level tab either.
This is a great idea for a Wuxia campaign!
Effectively,you could have everyone be a gestalt character (from 3.5's Unearthed Arcana) with one of classes being monk. You end up with a game where everyone is jumping and tumbling and kung-fu fighting, but where their other "main" class become the focus of their character. I.e., a fighter would be a master of weapons, a wizard would be a wizened old martial arts master, etc.
If everyone knows what they're getting into, this could be a lot of fun. You could also split up the monk abilities, and allow everyone to pick two or three. I would also ditch the alignment restriction entirely, and watch out for weird archetype combos.
The lawful alignment restriction for monk never really made sense to me. The monk is all about devotion. Devotion does not mean Lawful, otherwise clerics would have to be all Lawful as well.
I've actually have wanted to run an Japanese style game at some point with Yokai and Samurai (Cavalier/Knights), Ninja(Rogues), and Shinto(Oracles).
Agreed with all of this, especially the bolded part.
I hate to say it but to all intents and purposes it is already there.
Ninja gets ki-pool, and earlier than the monk. Other than that every single monk ability can be duplicated at least in part by a magic item or feat. As an extra slap in the face, the unarmed fighter archetype even gets proficiency with ALL monk weapons, which even monks themselves don't get.
...
Fighter has the smallest level tab ever! Have you seen it? It is one thing that could use a little stuffing. And adding rogue talents wouldn't change the rogue's level tab either.Quivering palm always reminds me of jelly.
As for giving other classes monk abilities, there seems to already be enough bloat and ability spam in pathfinder. They barely fit into the level table anymore.
Yes, but adding more doesn't mean there will be class balance. Perhaps this is only a side issue for pf though.
...I hate to say it but to all intents and purposes it is already there.
Ninja gets ki-pool, and earlier than the monk. Other than that every single monk ability can be duplicated at least in part by a magic item or feat. As an extra slap in the face, the unarmed fighter archetype even gets proficiency with ALL monk weapons, which even monks themselves don't get.
The devs, apparently. Hopefully, the long-awaited monk fix will fix this.
I hope that it will, since I almost verbally butchered a customer after seeing that.
Not really, I just liked being overdramatic this time.
I would be fired if I pulled off a stunt like that, you know :P
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Just a thought, but you may want to take a look at the super genius games product 'The Genius Guide to Marial Archetypes' and specifically the Yuxia archetype. It can be added to any class, and give alot of that kunfu movie flavor and abilities to any class. Its also I believe available on d20pfsrd.