So I have been looking into making a spellblade magus, but when I weigh in the value of that athame it just seems so much worse than a standard magus.
And the fact that you have to use a spell to power your force dagger makes it even more limiting- since you want to be dropping those spells on fools and you so limited on them.
Is there something I am missing? If the arch-type is comparable or even just close to the standard magus I would do it- I really think the idea is cool.
fwiw I was considering combining this with the blade bound archetype, doesn't look like they cross pollinate too poorly.
- Dex based Magus also- going rapier, so I am not trying to super optimize with a dancing dervish dex based guy, I am just looking for some style and solid play.
I have an NPC I'm looking to make as a Bladebound Spellblade. I'm trying to optimize it as best as I can; I may see if I can do something with two-weapon fighting to take advantage of the Force Athame. None of the Spellblade Arcana are any good and since you give up Spellstrike for your Athame you wouldn't be focused on damaging touch spells like a typical magus.
It says your hand is considered free for the purposes of touch spells, does that mean that you can deliver a touch spell through the Athame in the same way you normally would as a standard magus?
unless you can make attacks with that thing the same way you can spell combat (ie. two weapon fight without two weapon fighting) it seems like it would be a really difficult build.
-Edit: nm, just looking at it and it seems clear that you cannot attack and deliver a touch spell in the same round.
I am becoming more convinced that this is not a build really works, it just does not allow the magus to apply some of the basic strengths of his class.
Spell blade is a different beast from the normal Magus
you lose Spellstrike but if you read the fine print you also lose spell combat as far as using the athame goes
with the in mind you can build a TWF Spellblade which will be reasonably effective but you basically have to choose to ignore the spellstrike and spell combat features of magus.
Then pretty much just build as you would any two weapon build, you can twin this with a blackblade if you want.
Your arcane pool enchants both weapons for the price of one which is nice plus the athme is doing force damage and thus bypasses alot of DR and resists.
I'd recommend going high STR and power attack etc to maximise this force damage
as for spells since your not going to be casting while attacking your looking for buff and area spells basically the best of whats on offer. the rest of the time your a fancy Two weapon fighter.
While the regular Magus is a keen rapier 2x shocking grasp crit machine
The spellblade is a bit more mundane low but consistent DR bypassing force damager.
basically if the party runs into a high CR Golem the Athame is going to be taking chunks out of that sucker while everyone else is doing no damage.
It says your hand is considered free for the purposes of touch spells, does that mean that you can deliver a touch spell through the Athame in the same way you normally would as a standard magus?
unless you can make attacks with that thing the same way you can spell combat (ie. two weapon fight without two weapon fighting) it seems like it would be a really difficult build.
-Edit: nm, just looking at it and it seems clear that you cannot attack and deliver a touch spell in the same round.
I am becoming more convinced that this is not a build really works, it just does not allow the magus to apply some of the basic strengths of his class.
I don't think you can without normal penalties; I think you'll have to spend a feat on Two-Weapon Fighting like normal. I'm actually looking at the possiblity of going into Eldritch Knight to see if that makes any sense.
I seem to recall that since your two weapon fighting and not using spell combat you can pull a bit of a fast one as use a shield in your main hand as you primary weapon.
basically a reverse sword and board, with the nice bonus that your hand is still free for casting.
very feat heavy though
Spell blade is a different beast from the normal Magus
you lose Spellstrike but if you read the fine print you also lose spell combat as far as using the athame goes
with the in mind you can build a TWF Spellblade which will be reasonably effective but you basically have to choose to ignore the spellstrike and spell combat features of magus.
Then pretty much just build as you would any two weapon build, you can twin this with a blackblade if you want.
Your arcane pool enchants both weapons for the price of one which is nice plus the athme is doing force damage and thus bypasses alot of DR and resists.
I'd recommend going high STR and power attack etc to maximise this force damage
as for spells since your not going to be casting while attacking your looking for buff and area spells basically the best of whats on offer. the rest of the time your a fancy Two weapon fighter.
While the regular Magus is a keen rapier 2x shocking grasp crit machine
The spellblade is a bit more mundane low but consistent DR bypassing force damager.basically if the party runs into a high CR Golem the Athame is going to be taking chunks out of that sucker while everyone else is doing no damage.
I'll probably end up building my NPC in a similar fashion although it's still MAD since the character will need Dex to get TWF & ITWF, Str for melee, Int for spells, and Con as normal. I also don't like Power Attack for non-Full BAB two weapon fighters since you just take too many penalties to hit.
Another possibility is a 2 level dip or a 5 level dip in Magus for a Rogue or even (alch) vivosectionist build for sneak attack damage
Since the Athame base weapon damage is force the sneak attack damage would also be force damage.
of course that's a rogue build not a Magus build
I'll probably end up building my NPC in a similar fashion although it's still MAD since the character will need Dex to get TWF & ITWF, Str for melee, Int for spells, and Con as normal. I also don't like Power Attack for non-Full BAB two weapon fighters since you just take too many penalties to hit.Spell blade is a different beast from the normal Magus
you lose Spellstrike but if you read the fine print you also lose spell combat as far as using the athame goes
with the in mind you can build a TWF Spellblade which will be reasonably effective but you basically have to choose to ignore the spellstrike and spell combat features of magus.
Then pretty much just build as you would any two weapon build, you can twin this with a blackblade if you want.
Your arcane pool enchants both weapons for the price of one which is nice plus the athme is doing force damage and thus bypasses alot of DR and resists.
I'd recommend going high STR and power attack etc to maximise this force damage
as for spells since your not going to be casting while attacking your looking for buff and area spells basically the best of whats on offer. the rest of the time your a fancy Two weapon fighter.
While the regular Magus is a keen rapier 2x shocking grasp crit machine
The spellblade is a bit more mundane low but consistent DR bypassing force damager.basically if the party runs into a high CR Golem the Athame is going to be taking chunks out of that sucker while everyone else is doing no damage.
Get around this with Arcane Accuracy to add your INT to attack rolls for 1 round,
its still a MAD build and honestly I've tried to make it multiple times was never happy with the result, it also really dosen't start to show promise until the mid levels even then its behind the curve
The problem seems to be that you end up being a subpar spell caster and a subpar TWF. The rogue suffers from similar troubles, but you have sneak attack to make up for it.
I think you would be better off going DEX and INT with this and weapon finesse into pirhanna strike, its a little more feat heavy but you can ignore STR as a stat.
If you go that route and look to rapier and dagger then you can start tacking on all the enhancement bonus's you get to both weapons (especially with bladebound) and can start having a couple of +2 keen weapons pretty early.
You still have to deal with the magus spell list and how to integrate that, but when you start adding in all of the bonus damage you can do (and force at that) then at least criting all the time can pay off.
maybe you could top it off with a Kensai as well and you have even better hits along with weapon specialization around 7th level to help out.
It's not great, but its the best I can figure.
The problem seems to be that you end up being a subpar spell caster and a subpar TWF. The rogue suffers from similar troubles, but you have sneak attack to make up for it.
I think you would be better off going DEX and INT with this and weapon finesse into pirhanna strike, its a little more feat heavy but you can ignore STR as a stat.
If you go that route and look to rapier and dagger then you can start tacking on all the enhancement bonus's you get to both weapons (especially with bladebound) and can start having a couple of +2 keen weapons pretty early.
You still have to deal with the magus spell list and how to integrate that, but when you start adding in all of the bonus damage you can do (and force at that) then at least criting all the time can pay off.
maybe you could top it off with a Kensai as well and you have even better hits along with weapon specialization around 7th level to help out.
It's not great, but its the best I can figure.
Well Magus is about the synergy of spell and melee attacks to produce a powerful alpha striker.
Spellblade effectively breaks that synergy and leaves you to glue what's left into something viable.
To make a direct comparison at level 10
Magus with a 15-20 crit range can deal weapon + 10d6 shocking dmg which will crit to 2weapon + 20d6
Spellblade .... can't ;)
Well Magus is about the synergy of spell and melee attacks to produce a powerful alpha striker.
Spellblade effectively breaks that synergy and leaves you to glue what's left into something viable.
To make a direct comparison at level 10
Magus with a 15-20 crit range can deal weapon + 10d6 shocking dmg which will crit to 2weapon + 20d6Spellblade .... can't ;)
I agree, I think the idea of the spellblade is neat- and maybe it would be a cool arcana... but its just so bad on its own. Its kind of aggravating because it would be fun to play a dual wielding magus.
I agree, I think the idea of the spellblade is neat- and maybe it would be a cool arcana... but its just so bad on its own. Its kind of aggravating because it would be fun to play a dual wielding magus.
Well Magus is about the synergy of spell and melee attacks to produce a powerful alpha striker.
Spellblade effectively breaks that synergy and leaves you to glue what's left into something viable.
To make a direct comparison at level 10
Magus with a 15-20 crit range can deal weapon + 10d6 shocking dmg which will crit to 2weapon + 20d6Spellblade .... can't ;)
couldn't agree more
Spellblade could possible have been done as a Magus spell instead. Cast as part of spell combat to add additional offhand force attacks with rules that bypass the need for TWF chain of feats.