Catfolk Summoner Synthesist- Build Review / Help


Advice


Hello,

I am building a catfolk summoner synthesist. I have a quick question on if I can use all of the following before an attack: Arcane Strike, Power Attack, Lunge and maybe even Charge. Can I use all of these abilities when I attack?

I thought Nimble moves would go really well with a quadraped pouncing synthesist. See my build below and let me know your thoughts. I like the Black Cat feat and it add for my flavour of the character but is kind of hindering my DPR, what do you think of the Black Cat feat?

STR 9
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 5
CHA 19

Feat Progression:
Black Cat
Nimble Moves OR Arcane Strike
Power Attack (Belt of Giant Strength +4 by lvl 5)
Arcane Strike or Nimble Moves
Lunge
Extra Evolution
Extra Evolution
Extra Evolution


Nothing stops the 4 feats you mentioned (AS PA Lunge and Charge).

Never heard of black cat so can't comment on that.

-S

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Considering that total expected wealth at lvl5 is 10.5k, it may be unreasonable to expect to have a single 16k item (+4 str belt).


Thanks for the clarification, stoked to try this out. Especially as I am making him a black Leonine Catfolk character who morphs into a Crisophinx!

I was hoping one of my teammates would take craft wonderous item at lvl 3 in order to grab the belt of strength for cheap, if not I can always wait till 7th lvl I guess.. : /

Overall I am pretty excited to try this guy out, should be pretty rad.


In general what do you think is more beneficial for this character: Dex or CON?


Do you think the wisdom score of 5 is also except-able? How should this be role-played, what would a wisdom score of 7 or 9 en tale?


A penalty to will based skills and saves of either -1 or -2 or even -3 if you stick with the 5.

Silver Crusade

That 5 in the wisdom is going to cause you to have a bad time once you get into levels where enemies have spells like Dominate.

EDIT: Wait wait wait.

This is a SYNTHESIST summoner?

Man, nerf your Physical stats to the GROUND.

You use your Eidolon's Physical Stats when you merge, so your physical stats can be in the toilet.


Does my summoner base will bonuses stack with my eilodon's will saves when I am synthesized?


You don't get any of your eidolon's save bonuses when you're synthesized.

Be careful with synthesists, and make sure the eidolon is actually giving a bonus before you assume it does; if it's not in the text, you don't get it.

Silver Crusade

VikingMentality wrote:
Does my summoner base will bonuses stack with my eilodon's will saves when I am synthesized?

No, but you will use your Eidolon's Constitution and Dexterity in conjunction with the summoner's base saves to calculate your total saves when merged.


What do you think is more powerful in general for this character - DEX or CON? Does a synthesist often find his eilodon destroyed and stuck in his normal form? I need 13 dex for Nimble Moves which I plan taking later, and like to have the defense and ranged capability if my eilodon dies. I think Con would be useful though as I can give my eilodon my hit points with life link. CON vs Dex who wins?

My current stats are:
11 STR
17 DEX
10 CON
14 INT
11 WIS
18 CHA
**I want 11 STR to take Power attack once I can buy a Giant's Belt.

I could probably use the following if my GM approves an 8 wisdom:
11 STR
13 DEX
15 CON
14 INT
8 WIS
18 CHA

What build do you think is better for the synthesist?

Thanks for all the assistance! : D


As it's been stated, that 8 should go into str or dex. Your focus should be on your mental stats. The eidolon will provide the physical stats. If you're found without your eidolon, then summon up aid/manage the battlefield with your spells. You will be far from helpless.

Silver Crusade

VikingMentality wrote:

What do you think is more powerful in general for this character - DEX or CON? Does a synthesist often find his eilodon destroyed and stuck in his normal form? I need 13 dex for Nimble Moves which I plan taking later, and like to have the defense and ranged capability if my eilodon dies. I think Con would be useful though as I can give my eilodon my hit points with life link. CON vs Dex who wins?

My current stats are:
11 STR
17 DEX
10 CON
14 INT
11 WIS
18 CHA
**I want 11 STR to take Power attack once I can buy a Giant's Belt.

I could probably use the following if my GM approves an 8 wisdom:
11 STR
13 DEX
15 CON
14 INT
8 WIS
18 CHA

What build do you think is better for the synthesist?

Thanks for all the assistance! : D

Your stats should look like this (Assuming a 20 point buy):

7 STR
7 DEX
7 CON
14 INT
16 WIS
18 CHA


It's not necessarily a good idea to just dump everything. A healthy CON is nice for avoiding Suddenly Dead Syndrome if you lose your eidolon, and most people don't like the idea of roleplaying a crippled person who trips over their own feet.

Silver Crusade

TO THE GROUND!

;)

I get what you're saying, I was trying to illustrate a point of how absolutely useless physical stats are for a synthesist.

7 STR
7 DEX
11 CON
14 INT
14 WIS
18 CHA

Better? :D


Thanks for the help on the stats : )

How awesome do you think the feat below is for a pouncing synthesist, I could also take lunge later as well. Do you think this is a higher priority than Extra Evolution:
Nimble Striker (Combat, Catfolk)
You were born to charge your enemies and nobody does it better.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, base attack bonus +1, catfolk, sprinter racial trait.

Benefit: You do not take a –2 penalty to AC when you use the Cleave feat, Lunge feat, or when you charge.

Liberty's Edge

Your character needs to fulfill the feat pre-reqs, not the eidolon (because a synthesist eidolon does not receive feats).

So, if you want to get that Nimble Striker feat, you will need at least Dex 13.


Lopke wrote:

Your character needs to fulfill the feat pre-reqs, not the eidolon (because a synthesist eidolon does not receive feats).

So, if you want to get that Nimble Striker feat, you will need at least Dex 13.

Not true. Any bonus you can retain for 24 hours or longer can be used to qualify for feats, such as item bonuses or your eidolon.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Just as a Str11 character wearing a belt of strength +2 bumps him to Str13 and allows him to take Power Attack, you can do this. You just couldn't use the feat without the belt/eidolon-suit.

Silver Crusade

VikingMentality

At some point you are going to want to pick up the feat Improved Natural Attack Claws and combine that with the Improved Damage Evolution for claws.

Your Quad can have a pair of claws on it's legs and gets a Rake Attack, allowing you to make 2 more claw attacks on a pounce/grapple. That's three natural attacks.

I believe an Eidolon can have up to 7 Natural attacks

What you are going to want to do is eventually get the Limbs (Arms) evolution twice and then 2 more claw evolutions. That will give your eidolon 4 claws on 4 arms and 2 claws on the legs and a Rake attack, with get's you another 2 claws, for a total of 8 claw attacks. Then get Grab(Claw), allowing you to make 8 grapple attacks

Those claw attacks will all hit at your full BAB, deal 1d8 + STR damage and if you make your Eidolon large (and you should), the damage dice will increase to 2d6

So basically you will have 8 greatsword attacks on a pounce at max level.


Improved Natural Attacks looks awesome, Thanks Elamdri!
I'll have to think of how to add that and rake (huge increase as large : ) into my build.

I'll share the current build for the Eilodon:
Quadraped - (It's going to be some chrisophinx monster - my character is a Black Cat Leonine Catfolk so sphinxes are freakin lions man so they go together)

Evolutions:
1:
Pounce
Claws
Reach Claws
2:
Improved Damage Claws
3:
Natural Armor
4: / Lose Nat Armor
Limbs & Claws
5: / Lose Reach
Energy Attacks
6:
Reach
7: / Lose Reach
Ability Score or Grab?
8: / Lose Ability Score
Large
9:
Grab?
10:
Reach etc

My character's stats are the following. Now keep in my mind these stats are rolled and I need to meet some prequisites for Power Attack etc so check out the newest build:
STR 10 (Need 13 later with giant's build +4 & this increases Eilodon attacks)
Dex 13 (Need 13 for Nimble Moves later, its really a natural 11)
Con 15 (Makes the most sense over one more point in wis as I can switch life points to my eilodon and will be nice to have extra hit points if he dies)
Int 14 (Skills/Languages : )
11 Wis (Nat 13, kinda the dump stat, it's a doable Wis score)
18 Cha (Gotta have charisma for spells!)

Thoughts?

My feat plan is also:
Lvl 1:
Black Cat (Story / Cool Effect)
Lvl 3:
Arcane Strike (Multiattacks =+3)
lvl 5:
Power Attack (Hope i can afford it with multiattacks+aracane)
OR Nimbles Moves
Lvl 7:
Nimble Moves (No more -2 AC Charge for a pouncer sounds pretty rad)
Lvl 9:
Lunge (No -2 so blickablam : )
lvl 11:
Improved Natural Attacks (New one but sounds rad, maybe I should move this up)
Lvl 13,15,17,20
Extra Evolution

Magic-
Revujenate Eilodon - Mage Armor - Lvl 2 Enlarge Person

Sczarni

don't listen to them about dumping your stats. I wouldn't worry about raising them, but a 10 in str/dex/con is just fine, there's no reason beyond min/maxing to do this.

You will be forced out of your eidolon at points, and you will for RP reasons not want to be in it at times. It takes a full uninterupted minute (baring spells) to summon it to you.

Be capable without your eidolon, and then become awesome with it on.

Personally I like using a skill increase or two, that +8 to any skill you want is amazing.


VikingMentality wrote:

Improved Natural Attacks looks awesome, Thanks Elamdri!

I'll have to think of how to add that and rake (huge increase as large : ) into my build.

I'll share the current build for the Eilodon:
Quadraped - (It's going to be some chrisophinx monster - my character is a Black Cat Leonine Catfolk so sphinxes are freakin lions man so they go together)

Evolutions:
1:
Pounce
Claws
Reach Claws
2:
Improved Damage Claws
3:
Natural Armor
4: / Lose Nat Armor
Limbs & Claws
5: / Lose Reach
Energy Attacks
6:
Reach
7: / Lose Reach
Ability Score or Grab?
8: / Lose Ability Score
Large
9:
Grab?
10:
Reach etc

My character's stats are the following. Now keep in my mind these stats are rolled and I need to meet some prequisites for Power Attack etc so check out the newest build:
STR 10 (Need 13 later with giant's build +4 & this increases Eilodon attacks)
Dex 13 (Need 13 for Nimble Moves later, its really a natural 11)
Con 15 (Makes the most sense over one more point in wis as I can switch life points to my eilodon and will be nice to have extra hit points if he dies)
Int 14 (Skills/Languages : )
11 Wis (Nat 13, kinda the dump stat, it's a doable Wis score)
18 Cha (Gotta have charisma for spells!)

Thoughts?

My feat plan is also:
Lvl 1:
Black Cat (Story / Cool Effect)
Lvl 3:
Arcane Strike (Multiattacks =+3)
lvl 5:
Power Attack (Hope i can afford it with multiattacks+aracane)
OR Nimbles Moves
Lvl 7:
Nimble Moves (No more -2 AC Charge for a pouncer sounds pretty rad)
Lvl 9:
Lunge (No -2 so blickablam : )
lvl 11:
Improved Natural Attacks (New one but sounds rad, maybe I should move this up)
Lvl 13,15,17,20
Extra Evolution

Magic-
Revujenate Eilodon - Mage Armor - Lvl 2 Enlarge Person

It's right in the FAQ that you use your fused stats to qualify for feats.

Also when you are fused you use your eidolon's con for your own hps. With a 15 con your summoner hps decreases when you fuse and increases when you unfuse.

Anyway I don't think you should play a synthesist since you don't really know how they work.

This is just going to mess up the game as you will have to look for rules in 9 different places all the time, some online and some offline.


I think it was really rude to say the following because I didn't see 2 thinks and asked for advice on my character:
Anyway I don't think you should play a synthesist since you don't really know how they work.

I don't know where in the synthesist FAQ section it states I use my eilodon stats for feats and I don't know if my DM would accept this. I suppose if I was fused when I chose the feat it may work.

If my summoner and synthesist both have 11 hp at lvl 1 how will my hp decrease when fused and increased when unfused. - How would my hp change from the 15 con?

Sczarni

You can choose any feat as long as you can basically "generally qualify"

When you're fused you'll have power attack, when you're not fused and your strength isn't high enough, you won't have it available to use. (like wise if your strength is lowered by debuffs, you can't use it I'm assuming)

When your constitution changes, your hp change accordingly. If your constitution provides a +3 bonus unfused, and a +2 fused, when you are fused you'll use the +2, and unfused the +3. which means when your eidolon gets smacked off you, your hp will actually increase by 1, if you dump your con like many have said, you'll suddenly drop by whatever the difference is.


I wouldn't say to the GROUND, but you definitely don't need STR and DEX so high for a synthesist. Right now I'm slogging through the second level of a Gnomish Paladin 2/Synthesist X, and her stats are

STR 5
DEX 10
CON 17
INT 10
WIS 15
CHA 18

It was always the plan that I'd try and get through those first two levels as a straight Paladin (without even having a favored class bonus), so I invested in armor, shield, and Toughness, and she's basically a punching bag for the bad guys (and now she's a combat medic!), but it's fun being the face and flanking buddy and human (Gnuman?) shield. So when serpentine + limbs kicks in next level, and she can use a bow, we'll start to have something going.

BUT - I probably wouldn't bother with something like Toughness if I made her a Synthesist from the start. I would probably shave a few points off of Dexterity and make her a little wiser or smarter. WIS 5 strikes me as a terrible idea, especially for a synthesist.


joeyfixit wrote:

I wouldn't say to the GROUND, but you definitely don't need STR and DEX so high for a synthesist. Right now I'm slogging through the second level of a Gnomish Paladin 2/Synthesist X, and her stats are

STR 5
DEX 10
CON 17
INT 10
WIS 15
CHA 18

It was always the plan that I'd try and get through those first two levels as a straight Paladin (without even having a favored class bonus), so I invested in armor, shield, and Toughness, and she's basically a punching bag for the bad guys (and now she's a combat medic!), but it's fun being the face and flanking buddy and human (Gnuman?) shield. So when serpentine + limbs kicks in next level, and she can use a bow, we'll start to have something going.

BUT - I probably wouldn't bother with something like Toughness if I made her a Synthesist from the start. I would probably shave a few points off of Dexterity and make her a little wiser or smarter. WIS 5 strikes me as a terrible idea, especially for a synthesist.

I played a paladin/synthesist. I started with 2 levels in synthesist than nabbed 4 levels in paladin (Oath of Vengeance) and rocked house. I was basically smiting all day long.

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