Upon casting the spell you get one free touch attack (or one free melee attack using spellstrike).
If you get additional attacks in the same round, you may use spellstrike to deliver additional charges of the spell in that round, so yes that is a 2nd strike with the spell.
On the following rounds he can continue to spellstrike using his normal attack iteration. He does not get any extra free attacks. If he casts another touch attack spell he loses his remaining charges of the the multi-charge spell, but may use the free attack from the new spell casting that round.
If he does a combat maneuver that results in him touching his opponent with his hands it will trigger a held charge.
A question if a magus casts a spell that allows for multiple attacks (chill touch or frostbite for example that offer one attack per level) can the magus deliver these via spell combat?
Only if you use your weapon to deliver the spell via Spellstrike.
Examples:
Cast chill touch, make free touch attack, then make another touch attack - doesn't work.
Cast chill touch, make free touch attack, then make all of your attacks with your melee weapon, delivering the spell on a hit (via Spellstrike) - that works.
When using Spell Combat, your normal (iterative) attacks must be made with your melee weapon.
What happens the next round if the magus is level 3 or 4? Can he spell strike without casting another spell but just via delivering the remaIning touch attacks from the spell cast the previous round?
If he takes an attack action or full-attack, he can deliver the spell with spellstrike. (Or he can just make a standard action touch attack and target touch AC)
It's the same situation if you had cast a normal touch spell, like Shocking Grasp, and missed. If the spell is not discharged, you can hold the charge and keep making attacks round after round until you hit or otherwise lose the spell.
Here's A Guide to Touch Spells, Spellstrike, and Spell Combat.
Could the magus cast a different spell? (if it is touch attack I assume it cancels the previous spell)
If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
What you could do is alternate casting and fighting. For example:
Level 3 magus
Round 1:
Full-round action to use Spell Combat. Cast Chill Touch. Make free touch attack with sword (via Spellstrike). Lets say you hit, and the creature takes weapon damage and gets zapped. Now make your iterative attack(s) with your sword. Lets say you hit again, so the creature takes weapon damage and gets zapped again.
Round 2:
Full-round action to use Spell Combat. Make your normal weapon attack(s) first, lets say you miss, nothing happens. If you had hit, the creature would have taken weapon damage and been zapped yet again, but that didn't happen. Now you cast a spell. This causes the held charge of Chill Touch to dissipate.
What happens if the magus does a combat maneuver while he still has remaining touch attacks?
Here's a FAQ Request thread for Combat Maneuvers and Held Charges if anyone feels like contributing.
A question if a magus casts a spell that allows for multiple attacks (chill touch or frostbite for example that offer one attack per level) can the magus deliver these via spell combat?Only if you use your weapon to deliver the spell via Spellstrike.
Examples:
Cast chill touch, make free touch attack, then make another touch attack - doesn't work.Cast chill touch, make free touch attack, then make all of your attacks with your melee weapon, delivering the spell on a hit (via Spellstrike) - that works.
When using Spell Combat, your normal (iterative) attacks must be made with your melee weapon.
What happens the next round if the magus is level 3 or 4? Can he spell strike without casting another spell but just via delivering the remaIning touch attacks from the spell cast the previous round?If he takes an attack action or full-attack, he can deliver the spell with spellstrike. (Or he can just make a standard action touch attack and target touch AC)
It's the same situation if you had cast a normal touch spell, like Shocking Grasp, and missed. If the spell is not discharged, you can hold the charge and keep making attacks round after round until you hit or otherwise lose the spell.
Here's A Guide to Touch Spells, Spellstrike, and Spell Combat.
Could the magus cast a different spell? (if it is touch attack I assume it cancels the previous spell)If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
What you could do is alternate casting and fighting. For example:
Level 3 magus
Round 1:
Full-round action to use Spell Combat. Cast Chill Touch. Make free touch attack with sword (via Spellstrike). Lets say you hit, and the creature takes weapon damage and gets zapped. Now make your iterative attack(s) with your sword. Lets say you hit again, so the creature takes weapon damage and gets zapped again.Round 2:
...
Can you NOT use Spellstrike and continue a kind of dual wielding with your regular weapon attacks (not delivering the spell) and an "offhand" touch attack with the Chill Touch treating it as Spell Combat (all attacks at -2)? That's one scenario I haven't really seen covered.
Could a 4th level Magus cast Chill Touch (getting the free touch attack on the round it was cast - and using it as a touch instead of using Spellstrike) and get his regular sword attack on round 1 (using Spell Combat as normal) and then continue the routine attacking with his sword once and touching once with Chill Touch (using Spell Combat's -2) for the next 3 rounds?
Can you NOT use Spellstrike and continue a kind of dual wielding with your regular weapon attacks (not delivering the spell) and an "offhand" touch attack with the Chill Touch treating it as Spell Combat (all attacks at -2)? That's one scenario I haven't really seen covered.
No.
First of all, any attack you make with your weapon WOULD discharge the spell, as typical for touching things while holding a charge. (I am not 110% sure on this, since that rule wasn't written for magi, but because the general rule seems to be "if it CAN discharge, it does," it seems it should work that way in this case as well.)
Secondly, you can make a touch attack with a held charge as a standard action. There is no way to combine that with an attack (also a standard action) or a full attack. Spell Combat doesn't help, because it specifically allows you to make weapon attacks and cast a spell. Unless you're casting a spell that gives you a free touch attack (which would ruin your already held charge), you don't get a touch attack.
Your only option for using subsequent charges as touch attacks is to make one melee touch attack per round using your standard actions.
(I wonder... Flame Blade?)
First of all, any attack you make with your weapon WOULD discharge the spell, as typical for touching things while holding a charge.
Spellstrike (Su): "At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack."
The wording "can" makes it optional. You can choose to deliver the spell through a weapon, or you can choose not to. You're still holding the charge (if applicable). Note that if you're choosing not to use Spellstrike, you won't get the +3 to hit vs metal from Shocking Grasp, for instance.
Flame Blade?
That that's something I haven't seen before.
Flame Blade is a weapon-like spell so the only question is if the "melee touch attacks" with the flame blade count as a "melee attack" for Spellstrike.
If a melee touch attack is not a melee attack, then non-total cover or concealment would not apply to touches.
It's awkward, but I think it works. The flame blade doesn't dissipate when you cast another spell, so as long as the flame blade is active, you could use Spell Combat and/or Spellstrike with it. (You can't start unarmed with spell combat, you would have to wield a weapon, cast flame blade, then drop the weapon later)
a related question - if you cast a spell with multiple charges (say you are level 4 and cast Frostbite - so 4 "touches" can you cast a spell w/o a touch attack and retain the charges?
No.
Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: "In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates."
It doesn't matter what kind of spell you cast, it still dissipates a held touch spell.
Can you NOT use Spellstrike and continue a kind of dual wielding with your regular weapon attacks (not delivering the spell) and an "offhand" touch attack with the Chill Touch treating it as Spell Combat (all attacks at -2)? That's one scenario I haven't really seen covered.
No.
First of all, any attack you make with your weapon WOULD discharge the spell, as typical for touching things while holding a charge. (I am not 110% sure on this, since that rule wasn't written for magi, but because the general rule seems to be "if it CAN discharge, it does," it seems it should work that way in this case as well.)
Secondly, you can make a touch attack with a held charge as a standard action. There is no way to combine that with an attack (also a standard action) or a full attack. Spell Combat doesn't help, because it specifically allows you to make weapon attacks and cast a spell. Unless you're casting a spell that gives you a free touch attack (which would ruin your already held charge), you don't get a touch attack.
Your only option for using subsequent charges as touch attacks is to make one melee touch attack per round using your standard actions.
(I wonder... Flame Blade?)
So in order for a Magus to get full mileage out of a spell with multiple attacks per casting, he either has to:
1) Limit his attacks to 1 touch per round (no matter what his base attack bonus is since touching is a standard action). - Same as any other caster.
2) Use only his sword attacks (with iterate attacks for high base attack) discharging the spell once per round using Spellstrike and not be able to use Spell Combat (since that would cause the touch spell to dissipate).
3) Use sword attacks (along with iterate attacks) and use Two-weapon Fighting and Improved Unarmed Strike to deliver the spell (against normal AC) with his offhand. - Same as any other caster.
I guess this also depends on whether the touch spell is discharged with every attack, or only once per round (which is what I based this on).
If the above is correct though, I find it odd that a Magus can cast a spell and get full attacks just fine (above and beyond what a normal caster can do), but can't USE spells that last more than 1 round and attack any better than a standard caster of any other class.
First of all, any attack you make with your weapon WOULD discharge the spell, as typical for touching things while holding a charge.Spellstrike (Su): "At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack."
The wording "can" makes it optional. You can choose to deliver the spell through a weapon, or you can choose not to.
The -other- choice you have with the charge from the spell is to deliver it as a usual touch attack. (Or to wander around threatening people with it, but not actually touching, I suppose.)
You're still holding the charge (if applicable). Note that if you're choosing not to use Spellstrike, you won't get the +3 to hit vs metal from Shocking Grasp, for instance.
Is that official now? I noticed some people talking about it a while back, but it didn't seem to me that electricity would help my sword hit better. If you can point me to a ruling... awesome! :)
(You can't start unarmed with spell combat, you would have to wield a weapon, cast flame blade, then drop the weapon later)
(Spiked) Gauntlet is a fine weapon for starting a battle armed.
This would be a pretty heavy investment if you wanted to cast Flame Blade with your own spell slots, but it would be a nice backup for anyone with the wand wielder arcana, I think.
1) Limit his attacks to 1 touch per round (no matter what his base attack bonus is since touching is a standard action). - Same as any other caster.
Yes.
2) Use only his sword attacks (with iterate attacks for high base attack) discharging the spell once per round using Spellstrike and not be able to use Spell Combat (since that would cause the touch spell to dissipate).
No. It would discharge on each hit, until he ran out of charges.
3) Use sword attacks (along with iterate attacks) and use Two-weapon Fighting and Improved Unarmed Strike to deliver the spell (against normal AC) with his offhand. - Same as any other caster.
If you did this, I'd recommend switching your sword to your casting hand while you weren't casting (this won't discharge your spell) and attacking with a gauntlet and your sword, to save on Improved Unarmed Strike.
I guess this also depends on whether the touch spell is discharged with every attack, or only once per round (which is what I based this on).If the above is correct though, I find it odd that a Magus can cast a spell and get full attacks just fine (above and beyond what a normal caster can do), but can't USE spells that last more than 1 round and attack any better than a standard caster of any other class.
You have to read the spells carefully. There are some that give X number of touches, and there are some that give you a touch attack usable once per round for X number of rounds. This makes a big difference, and the one is very useful for magi and the other is not.
Magi are much better at using multiple charges than standard casters, because they DO have the option of discharging multiple charges per round, with their full attacks.
2) Use only his sword attacks (with iterate attacks for high base attack) discharging the spell once per round using Spellstrike and not be able to use Spell Combat (since that would cause the touch spell to dissipate).
There's no limit on how many times the spell can hit per round (depending on the spell), only limitations on the actions you can use to do so.
Meaning if a sorcerer has a held charge of chill touch, he can full attack with both of his claws, and if both claws hit, two 'touches' of chill touch will resolve in addition to the claw damage. (Assuming his caster level is 2 or higher and he hasn't used all his touches yet)
I'm also not sure about the "touch attack to discharge a spell is a standard action" - where did you get that rule from? I thought casters with a held charge were just considered as threatening and could make normal attacks - but I haven't actually seen this occur all that often at levels where casters might have iterative attacks where it would be a potential issue.
The rules aren't explicit about being able to make iterative touch attacks due to high BAB, and James has said it doesn't work that way.
James Jacobs: "Iterative attacks are SOLELY the province of weapons (and of spells that specifically work like weapons)—touch attacks and natural weapons do not work this way."
However:
James Jacobs: "That said... I don't really think that allowing iterative attacks with a produce flame unbalance things TOO much, especially since each time you attack reduces the duration of the spell. You won't get more attacks out of produce flame if you allow iterative attacks, but you WILL power through the spell's duration faster."
The -other- choice you have with the charge from the spell is to deliver it as a usual touch attack. (Or to wander around threatening people with it, but not actually touching, I suppose.)
Well, yeah, you can do lots of things. The point is that you are not required to use Spellstrike, so you could make a regular melee attack that doesn't discharge your spell. (For instance, if you have a held charge you want to use against the boss, and a goblin mook provokes an AoO, you could AoO the goblin with your weapon, choose not to use Spellstrike, and thus keep the charge for use against the boss)
You're still holding the charge (if applicable). Note that if you're choosing not to use Spellstrike, you won't get the +3 to hit vs metal from Shocking Grasp, for instance.Is that official now? I noticed some people talking about it a while back, but it didn't seem to me that electricity would help my sword hit better. If you can point me to a ruling... awesome! :)
Spellstrike (Su): "At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack."
Shocking Grasp: "When delivering the jolt, you gain a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor (or is carrying a metal weapon or is made of metal)."
Unless there's anything saying you don't get the bonus, then you get the bonus. The default assumption is that it does what it says.
(Spiked) Gauntlet is a fine weapon for starting a battle armed.
When using Spell Combat, I think you would still be required to make your attacks with the gauntlet, as "his melee weapon" presumably refers specifically to the "light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand." Since Spell Combat is akin to TWF, I think the intent is to not switch out weapons. Spellstrike works with any weapon, so switching that way is fine.
Meaning...
round 1: Cast flame blade, punch with gauntlets
round 2: Cast shocking grasp, attack with flame blade
RAW isn't explicit there, but I think that's the intent.
This would be a pretty heavy investment if you wanted to cast Flame Blade with your own spell slots, but it would be a nice backup for anyone with the wand wielder arcana, I think.
There's a question!
Wand Wielder (Su): "The magus can activate a wand or staff in place of casting a spell when using spell combat."
Does that replace all the spell requirements of Spell Combat, or only the "cast a spell" requirement?
Spell Combat (Ex): "...and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action"
Requirements:
A) Cast the spell
B) from the magus spell list
C) casting time 1 standard action
Could you activate a wand of Enlarge Person? Probably not, since it has a 1 round casting time. So you probably couldn't activate a wand of Flame Blade, since it's not from the magus spell list.
Magi are much better at using multiple charges than standard casters, because they DO have the option of discharging multiple charges per round, with their full attacks.
I'm not sure I follow you there.
A 12th level Magus has a BAB of +9/+4 (two attacks) both of which can discharge the spell (apparently).
A 12th level Wizard has a BAB of +6/+1 (two attacks) both of which can discharge the spell (apparently - and if he is using an Unarmed Strike).
A 1st level Sorcerer with the Draconic Bloodline (or any other bloodline that offers claws) has a BAB of +0 (but gets two attacks because of the claws) both of which can discharge the spell (apparently).
Seems Sorcerers (or other casters that have natural weapons) are much better at it than Magi are.
The only difference between the Magus and the Wizard is that the Magus can use his weapon instead of an unarmed strike, and the Magus gets 2 attacks 4 levels earlier (unless the Wizard dips into Monk, or has increased BAB because of Eldritch Knight, etc.). So discharging multiple charges per round with full attacks has nothing to do with the Magus specifically.
Full attack + say a bunch of words, make arcane gestures to cast a spell + touch (or channel through weapon) as a Magus = fine.
Full attack + touch with spell that was cast last round and is continually going as a Magus = no way touching is a standard action! Too many actions, flag on the play.
Keep in mind that this is also not using Spellstrike or his normal attacks to deliver any spell damage/mechanics. It is considering that the "standard action" from using a touch attack instead of casting a spell via Spell Combat (so -2 to all attacks, including the touch) is possible.
Is the "Two-weapon fighting Magus that wields a weapon in one hand and a spell in the other" not possible unless house ruled?
Kind of sad.
The only difference between the Magus and the Wizard is that the Magus can use his weapon instead of an unarmed strike, and the Magus gets 2 attacks 4 levels earlier
Yes, the wizard can punch guys with touch spells. So can the magus. The magus also has the option of using an actual manufactured weapon, which the wizard can't do. That's the whole point of the class.
What I think threemilechild was saying is that a magus can cast a spell and make a bunch of attacks, potentially discharging a whole bunch of spell effects in one round.
The wizard can't do that, he has to cast the spell, then hold the charge, then the next round he could make some unarmed or natural attacks.
Keep in mind that this is also not using Spellstrike or his normal attacks to deliver any spell damage/mechanics. It is considering that the "standard action" from using a touch attack instead of casting a spell via Spell Combat (so -2 to all attacks, including the touch) is possible.
This doesn't really make sense. Can you rephrase what you're saying?
Is the "Two-weapon fighting Magus that wields a weapon in one hand and a spell in the other" not possible unless house ruled?
Kind of sad.
It's sad that an ability which lets you cast a spell can't be used to make an attack instead of casting the spell?
The Quicken Spell feat lets you cast a spell as a swift action. That doesn't mean you can use Quicken Spell to not cast a spell but instead attack someone as a swift action.
The point is that you are not required to use Spellstrike, so you could make a regular melee attack that doesn't discharge your spell.
I think I've found my mental sticking point with this; in the games I play in, we consider that making the weapon attack counts as "touching" something. That doesn't appear to specifically be a rule, and with the explanation that Spellstrike is meant only to ADD options to the Magus, obviously a magus can attack with a weapon without unintentional discharge.
I agree with you that if you declare Spell Combat with the gauntlet as your wielded weapon, that your attacks should be made with the gauntlet rather than any weapon your spell conjured. But it saves dropping a weapon, and I always wear a spiked gauntlet, so it still seems like a pretty good deal to me.
I think the wands question is unclear since Wand User says nothing about it and is more specific, but given the "cast or use" language in Broad Study, you're probably right about the intention. That's disappointing all around; back to the heavy investment. Or you could just buff with it beforehand since it'd last three minutes... but then, meh. Oh well, I have a strength bonus and a very jealous intelligent weapon anyway.
ETA: Canthin: A sorcerer or wizard cannot cast the spell and then make an attack with an unarmed strike or natural weapon in the first round -- they only get one touch attack. The magus can cast and strike (with spellstrike) or cast and full attack (with spellstrike and spell combat) even in the first round. Subsequently, they have the same abilities with held charges.
What the magus gets is they can also take a regular attack (at a -2 penalty on both the touch and the regular attack) - this is via Spell Combat
With Spell Combat, they get their full attack with a weapon. If their base attack is high enough, they get more than one attack. It's easy if you imagine "Spell Combat" to be a container that can hold up to one of each: "up to standard action casting time spell" and "full attack."
weapon attack (likely damage but could I think also be a combat maneuver) as well as doing the damage from the spell touch.
As long as the maneuver is one that can be substituted for an attack. (Not all of them are.)
Did I miss anything?
Only pertaining to theme :P As rules go you hit them and as everyone stated, Magus just doesn't fly as a dual wielding sword and magic dude. They are only allowed to do more damage with less attacks instead of lending to a more "Sword AND Spell" roleplaying style.
Consider:
Magus level 8
BAB: +6
STR: 17 (+3)
Weapon Focus (+1)
+2 Weapon (+2)
Acceptable - as per rules stated earlier
1st round - +10 / +5 sword for 1d8+5 / 1d8+5 (Against AC 18, needs a 8/13 or higher, average damage = 19)
Casts Chill Touch, gets a free touch attack (channeled through weapon) for 1d8+1d6+5 at +10 (Against AC 18, needs a 8 or higher, average damage = 13, 1 save for 1 STR damage)
Rounds 2 - 4 - +12 / +7 sword+spell discharge for 1d8+1d6+5 / 1d8+1d6+5 (Against AC 18, needs a 6/11 or higher, average damage = 26, 2 saves for 1 STR damage each)
Round 5 - +12 sword+spell discharge for 1d8+1d6+5 (Against AC 18, needs a 6 or higher, average damage = 13, 1 save for 1 STR damage)
+7 sword for 1d8+5 (Against AC 18, needs an 11 or higher, average damage = 9)
Total sword attacks in 5 rounds = 11, total touch attacks in 5 rounds = 0, average damage = 132, 8 saves for total of 8 STR damage
Total number of attacks needing a 6 or higher = 4. (average damage = 52)
Total number of attacks needing a 8 or higher = 2. (average damage = 22)
Total number of attacks needing a 11 or higher = 4. (average damage = 48)
Total number of attacks needing a 13 or higher = 1. (average damage = 9)
All spell attacks used up in 5 rounds
Not Acceptable - as per the rules sited earlier
1st round - +10 / +5 sword for 1d8+5 / 1d8+5 (Against AC 18, needs a 8/13 or higher, average damage = 19)
Casts Chill Touch, gets a free touch attack at +7 (Against Touch AC 13, needs a 6 or higher, average damage = 3, 1 save for 1 STR damage)
Rounds 2 - 8 - +10 / +5 sword for 1d8+5 / 1d8+5 (Against AC 18, needs a 8/13 or higher, average damage = 19)
+7 spell for 1d6 (Against Touch AC 13, needs a 6 or higher, average damage = 3, 1 save for 1 STR damage)
Total sword attacks in 5 rounds = 10, total touch attacks in 5 rounds = 5, average damage = 110, 5 saves for total of 5 STR damage
Total number of attacks needing a 6 or higher = 5. (average damage = 15)
Total number of attacks needing a 8 or higher = 5. (average damage = 47)
Total number of attacks needing a 11 or higher = 0.
Total number of attacks needing a 13 or higher = 5. (average damage = 47)
3 rounds of spell left
Which is almost identical to the following scenario that I believe is also Acceptable as per the rules sited earlier:
1st round - +10 / +5 sword for 1d8+5 / 1d8+5 (Against AC 18, needs a 8/13 or higher, average damage = 19)
Casts Ray of Frost with Close Range Arcana, gets a free touch attack at +7 (Against Touch AC 13, needs a 6 or higher, average damage = 2)
Rounds 2 - Infinity - +10 / +5 sword for 1d8+5 / 1d8+5 (Against AC 18, needs a 8/13 or higher, average damage = 19)
Cast Ray of Frost with Close Range Arcana, gets a free touch attack at +7 (Against Touch AC 13, needs a 6 or higher, average damage = 2)
Total sword attacks in 5 rounds = 10, total touch attacks in 5 rounds = 5, average damage = 105
Total number of attacks needing a 6 or higher = 5. (average damage = 10)
Total number of attacks needing a 8 or higher = 5. (average damage = 47)
Total number of attacks needing a 11 or higher = 0.
Total number of attacks needing a 13 or higher = 5. (average damage = 47)
So it is possible to dual wield sword and spell as long as the spell is 0th level and you take a Magus Arcana that helps out Spellstrike (even if you don't use it that way) by adding lots of spells to the list of those available to it.
Although in this last scenario you could substitute the touch attack with a Spellstrike attack since you are casting every round instead of holding a charge. So 0th level spells are more powerful than spells allowing multiple touches in the hands of a Magus. Oh well.
Actually you can do this without needing to take an arcana - the arcane mark 0th level spell is a touch attack (doesn't do any damage but does allow the magus to take an extra attack via spellstrike if they wanted to take it) (the hexcrafter archetype also gets a 0th level touch curse orisons they can use for slightly greater effect)
Also if I were playing the magus i would cast the Chill touch first - then take my free attack and my full attack - why take the full attack first in round 1? This does use potentially three "touches" in one round - so at 8th level I would have two rounds following with 2 touches used each round (if every attack is a hit) and then in round 4 would have only 1 touch remaining.
However that also assumes that I can take four rounds of full attacks in a row - in most real battles I've seen that would be a rarity - frequently I'll need to move to close a distance with a target etc.
The main reason would also be to protect against the 15 minute adventuring day - a magus doesn't get all that many spells - so while going nova with something like shocking grasp could do a ton of damage (especially if you crit) it seems to me that spells like chill touch or frostbite might have a lot of long term utility for many magi as they offer a nice boost to damage for a good long duration (and even help with AoO's etc.
0th level spells don't affect the 15 minute adventuring day because they can be used non-stop forever. All the more absurd that a 0th level spell like Ray of Frost (when used with Close Range Arcana) is more powerful and more useful to a Magus than a 2nd level spell like Elemental Touch that allows multiple attacks over multiple rounds. And that is if your only concern was to deal the most amount of damage possible all the time (which isn't what I'm trying to point out here).
Completely gimped and not used optimally, Ray of Frost with Close Range Arcana allows a Magus to full attack and touch a target every round at -2 to hit with sword, and -2 to hit with touch. This is the exact same effect I was looking for with spells that last more than one round like Chill Touch. For thematic and roleplaying purposes, not min/maxing OMG damage dishing. It was pointed out however that this was impossible as per the rules, they only support more damage with less attacks and not more options with less damage.
I have accepted that Close Range Arcana and 0th level spells are what I'm going to have to use for my concept.
So it is possible to dual wield sword and spell as long as the spell is 0th level and you take a Magus Arcana that helps out Spellstrike (even if you don't use it that way) by adding lots of spells to the list of those available to it.
Spell Combat is dual wielding spells and a weapon. You don't need an arcana.
If you want to use Spell Combat to get an extra attack, use a spell that grants an extra attack.
Elemental Touch is not a touch spell, it doesn't work with Spellstrike at all.
Elemental Touch is not a touch spell, it doesn't work with Spellstrike at all.
Correct. I also said many, many times that I DID NOT WANT to Spellstrike.
Elemental Touch gives the caster a TOUCH attack dealing elemental damage per touch. Since (as you pointed out) this is not a "touch spell" and therefore doesn't allow the use of the weapon wielded by the Magus, why should this spell even be on the Magi spell list? They can't us it with Spell Combat since it doesn't allow a free touch when cast. They can't use it with Spellstrike since it isn't a touch spell and has a range of personal. It seems that the only way to use this spell is to sacrifice everything that "is" a Magus (put the sword away and touch people like you are a Wizard).
This is problematic to me, and prompted my questions about "dual wielding" sword in one hand, lingering/continuous touch spell in the off hand and 1) is it possible, and 2) would it require TWF feat to accomplish.
Consensus seems to say that it is not possible (regardless of feats) and the spell is pretty much useless to a Magus. And in order to simulate using it the way I suggest, would require Close Range Arcana, and casting a 0th level spell every round, ignoring Spellstrike and the increased/better damage it confers in order to full attack with sword, and use a "touch spell" in the offhand FOR ROLEPLAYING / NON POWER GAMING / CINEMATIC / THEMATIC effect.
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but Elemental Touch is not a held charge, just a touch affect on all future touch attacks.
Couldn't a magus cast Elemental Touch, then on future rounds Spell Combat with touch spells (NOT using Spellstrike) to gain the "extra" attack and apply both the Elemental Touch damage as well as the new touch spell damage?
-AK
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I am not sure what you are going for here, but if you want to duel wield spells and attacks may I suggest AOEs?
My magus does it all the time. A nice burning hands or lightning bolt to the face followed up by a few smacks with an axe. This is even better with the boss is surrounded by mooks. I also use scorching ray for this. and magic missile for this. It has great cinematic effects.
"Dueling back and forth the vampire's latest blow is slowed by your shield spell, allowing you time to avoid the black blade. Moving underneath the blow you summon the power of lightning to you hand and blast your enemy. You quickly follow up with to blows from your mighty blade sending him staggering back. Behind him a evil cleric falls to the ground, a electrified hole through his chest"
Casting defensible really makes this doable and a lot of fun.
Since (as you pointed out) this is not a "touch spell" and therefore doesn't allow the use of the weapon wielded by the Magus, why should this spell even be on the Magi spell list? They can't us it with Spell Combat since it doesn't allow a free touch when cast.
Spell Combat allows you to cast any spell on the Magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action, in addition to making your regular attacks with your weapon.
You can cast Elemental Touch with Spell Combat, just like you can cast magic missile or shield or unseen servant with Spell Combat.
What you were asking for is for Spell Combat to give you free touch attacks without casting spells. That's not what it does.
Consensus seems to say that it is not possible (regardless of feats) and the spell is pretty much useless to a Magus.
Elemental Touch is decent, since you can combine it with normal touch spells. And you have a better chance of making that touch happen than a wizard, since your BAB is higher, and you've got some armor which can help protect you from retaliation. It even works with your cantrip-spamming spell combat technique, use your off-hand spell with arcane mark, delivering both the mark and a dose of elemental with the touch. But if you don't like the spell, don't use it.