First off if anyone knows the module I am talking about please refrain from saying it. As I do not want to give away spoilers .
So my players are going to be running into a lake of Blackfrost poison (this is in the module)
Blackfrost
Type poison, contact; Save Fortitude DC 15
Onset 1 minute; Frequency 1/minute for 6 minutes
Initial effect 2d6 hp damage (half acid, half cold)
Secondary effect 1d2 Con damage; Cure 2 consecutive saves
So here is my question.
The players just may get bull-rushed off the bridge and into the lake, it will take some time to swim back to shore. Now as it is contact poison will they be exposed to it every round and have to make an initial save? Will the DC also go up every time per the poison rules?
What is the correct format for running this situation?
I want to make sure I run this by the rules because it so has the chance to kill off some characters. Add to this the critters doing the bull-rush are immune to the poison and very well just might try to grapple them in the lake. I do not want to kill a player off because I made a mistake with the rules.
here's a very nice summary on how to run poisons: Paizo Blog on Poisons
Essentially, whenever a character is first exposed to a poison (whether inhalation, injury, contact or ingestion) he gets a Fort save. If that save is successful, the poison has no further effect. The "onset" time is just the difference between the time of initial exposure and when the initial Fort save must be rolled. So an onset time of 1 minute means you get stabbed with a poisoned weapon, nothing happens for a minute (other than combat rounds), then once that minute has lapsed you roll a Fort save. If you succeed, you're just like the Spring Free & Clear plan.
Honestly that blog is a pretty good resource, read that and see if you still have any questions. And for what its worth, that sounds like a pretty cool encounter!
here's a very nice summary on how to run poisons: Paizo Blog on Poisons
Essentially, whenever a character is first exposed to a poison (whether inhalation, injury, contact or ingestion) he gets a Fort save. If that save is successful, the poison has no further effect. The "onset" time is just the difference between the time of initial exposure and when the initial Fort save must be rolled. So an onset time of 1 minute means you get stabbed with a poisoned weapon, nothing happens for a minute (other than combat rounds), then once that minute has lapsed you roll a Fort save. If you succeed, you're just like the Spring Free & Clear plan.
Honestly that blog is a pretty good resource, read that and see if you still have any questions. And for what its worth, that sounds like a pretty cool encounter!
Ok so after reading the guide here is the way I believe I should be running this.
Round one player falls into lake and must make save. If he fails save he takes the 2d6 damage.
Round two player makes another save except this one is now at +2 DC. If he fails this save he takes another 2d6 from initial contact and the duration now goes from 6 minutes to 9 minutes.
Round 3 player makes another save except it is now at +4 DC. If he fails he takes another 2d6 from contact with the poison and the duration is now 13 minutes (9 + 4.5 but rounded down to 4)
And so on....
Does this sound right?
The "lake" part makes this tricky.
Poisons are very rarely ongoing occurences that a PC is exposed to every round. A cloudkill spell is a poison effect, but there is a set DC for the spell that never increases. 99.5% of the time, multiple doses of poison will be due to multiple attacks with poisoned weapons or creatures that deliver poisons with a bite or sting.
Because this is a corner case, I think I would say you can either rule it as each time the player falls in the lake it counts as one dose, or each round the player is in the lake counts as one dose. Fort Save DC 15 isn't bad for a Fighter or Paladin, but for low level Robes it's deadly.... not only do Robes have a low Fort save due to class, but they are more likely to mini-dump Con (like a Con of 12).
HOWEVER, a frequency of 1/minute is pretty survivable as long as the party has a few potions of neutralize poison or a lesser restoration spell handy. i'm also not sure what level your party is at, or how long it would take to exit the lake.
At levels 3-4, this has some seriously cool scare factor for Rogues, Robes, and low Con divine casters. At levels 5-7, it's a cool encounter that could really make things "interesting" if the rolls favor the GM. At levels 9-10, this encounter really just adds flavor and the monster is probably a much bigger threat than the lake.
The "lake" part makes this tricky.
Poisons are very rarely ongoing occurences that a PC is exposed to every round. A cloudkill spell is a poison effect, but there is a set DC for the spell that never increases. 99.5% of the time, multiple doses of poison will be due to multiple attacks with poisoned weapons or creatures that deliver poisons with a bite or sting.
Because this is a corner case, I think I would say you can either rule it as each time the player falls in the lake it counts as one dose, or each round the player is in the lake counts as one dose. Fort Save DC 15 isn't bad for a Fighter or Paladin, but for low level Robes it's deadly.... not only do Robes have a low Fort save due to class, but they are more likely to mini-dump Con (like a Con of 12).
HOWEVER, a frequency of 1/minute is pretty survivable as long as the party has a few potions of neutralize poison or a lesser restoration spell handy. i'm also not sure what level your party is at, or how long it would take to exit the lake.
At levels 3-4, this has some seriously cool scare factor for Rogues, Robes, and low Con divine casters. At levels 5-7, it's a cool encounter that could really make things "interesting" if the rolls favor the GM. At levels 9-10, this encounter really just adds flavor and the monster is probably a much bigger threat than the lake.
The party is all lv 8 or 9 for this encounter.
The main reason I am leaning towards every round is because the initial effect of the poison does 1d6 acid damage and 1d6 cold damage, then 1 minute later the secondary effect of 1d2 con damage starts up. I would think that acid and cold damage would not be something that just stops. It is an ongoing effect that the players would take every round. As such I was going to rule that they were exposed to the poison again every round.
i agree the acid and cold wouldn't be something that just stops, and a fort save to negate makes it a bit less deadly (since it's tied to the poison effect, and isn't a separate mechanic).
yeah, that's a nice terrain feature for 8 & 9 level characters.
Westleyrogue, I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you mean is there a guide to designing homebrew poisons that aren't in the PRD/Core Rule Book? Or do you mean are there sources of "harvesting" poisons in the general setting of Golarion?
As a DM i'd say using a Heal check or a Survival check to harvest poisons from a monster/animal that has poisonous attacks is reasonable in-game source. There is also Craft: Alchemy you can use to make poisons. Craft: Alchemy along with the feat Master Alchemist can give you a healthy poison supply if you can put the time into it in-game. You can even use the "craft while adventuring" rules to craft 2 hours worth of "product" per day while away from your lab during exploration/adventuring.
if your GM allows the Leadership feat and/or lets you build relationships with NPC's, making friends with or feating up a cohort witch who has the Cauldron hex and Master Alchemist feat would give you a good market to buy poisons from too.
If your GM allows it, an old age half-elf witch cohort would be ideal. Old age gives +2 Int on top of the +2 racial attribute boost that half-elves can use as they want. given set NPC stats of 15/13/12/11/10/9 (that's fairly close to what the numbers actually are), at 1st level your cohort would have a 19 Int. Half-elf would also get Skill Focus (Craft: alchemy) for free at level 1, and Cauldron hex gives a +4 competence bonus to Craft:alchemy. So at level 2 the witch would have +4 (Int), +4(cauldron), +3(skill focus), +2 (ranks), +3 (trained) = +16 Craft:alchemy.