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So I ran across the Pugilist today and was intrigued by the idea. However, after looking at the reviews and analyzing the class it came off as more than a bit weak. So, this is my little endeavor to try and give the class more power so as to introduce it too my home games, and wanted the opinions of the board here as to whether or not I was on track as far as how my changes stacked up. Now for the changes:
1) All good saves.
2) Change Iron Fist so that is can be used with any body part and drop the language about two-weapon fighting. (Most likely include a name change to Iron Body or some such).
3) Drop the Pugilist style feats and allow them to gain Monk Style feats as a Master of Many Styles Monk except the Pugilist gains the Monk Style feats at 1st, 2nd, 7th, 13th, and 19th levels.
4) Drop thick Skinned. Instead the Pugilist may replace Fighter levels with his Pugilist levels when qualifying for Fighter only feats. Also, the Pugilist gains combat feats as bonus feats at 4th level and every 4 levels after (8th, 12th, 16th, 20th).
5) Changes to fast movement. Starting at 2nd level the Pugilist gains a +10 enhancement bonus to his movement speed. This bonus increases by +10 every 4 levels (6th, 10th, 14th, 18th). At 14th level the Pugilist gains Spider Step as a bonus feat without having to meet the prerequisites; however, instead of moving half his slow fall speed the Pugilist may move half his total speed (including his enhancement bonus to speed). At 18th level, the Pugilist gains Cloud Step as a bonus feats without having to meet the prerequisites; however, instead of moving half his slow fall speed the Pugilist instead moves half his total speed (including his enhancement bonus to speed).
6) Drop all of the capstone Pugilist Style Maneuvers. Add in at 5th level the Pugilist gains immunity to fatigue. At 10th level he gains immunity to exhaustion. At 15th level he gains immunity to stunning. At 20th level, he gains immunity to death effects and energy drain. (The Pugilist still gains the rest of his maneuvers from his chosen style.)
7) Drop Tempered for Improved Evasion.
8) Drop Aggressive Combat Training. Instead the Pugilist makes a melee touch attack against a defending character. If the attack hits, then the defending character must make a Fortitude save against a DC that is equal to 10+the Pugilist level. If the defending character fails its saving throw, then the defending character dies. (Call the attack Death Blow).
Ok, so after looking at it I probably made a class that has little to nothing to do to the original Pugilist and is more than likely far to powerful when compared to other Pathfinder classes. So, again, I throw it to the boards. What do ya'll think about the changes? Too Much? Too little? Makes no since at all?
Change #8 to being usable once per day as opposed to all the time.
Oh, I just found it on the PFSRD, and I'd say it's a nerfed monk with some DR. I wouldn't really dig too deep unless you find it that interesting.
Oh, I just found it on the PFSRD, and I'd say it's a nerfed monk with some DR. I wouldn't really dig too deep unless you find it that interesting.
Well...in for a dime in for a dollar as the saying goes...
UPDATE:
1) Drop the Pugilist Style feats and master of many styles feats all together.
2) Drop all the Pugilist Maneuvers as well.
I think I'll go ahead and post a full level abilities for my rewrite for the class.
Pugilist
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8
Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge Local, Perception, Profession, Since Motive, and Swim
Skill Ranks Per Level: 4+Intelligence Modifier
BAB: 3/4
Saves: All Good
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Pugilists are only proficient with unarmed strikes and all light armor but not shields. If a Pugilist wears medium or heavy armor they lose Evasion, Improved Evasion, and Fast Movement.
Iron Body
At 1st level, the Pugilist gains the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat as A Bonus Feat. Your unarmed strike damage die becomes 1d6 if small sized, 1d8 if medium sized, and 1d10 if large sized. At 4th level the pugilist gains a +1 enhancement bonus to all unarmed attacks, and this enhancement bonus increases by +1 every 4 levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th).
A Pugilist's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A Pugilist may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.
A Pugilist's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
Martial Arts Master
Starting at 1st level a Pugilist may use his Hit Dice as his BAB for his CMB and CMD. At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th) a Pugilist gains Combat feats as Bonus feats, and may use his Pugilist level in place of his Fighter level when qualifying for fighter only combat feats.
Evasion
At 2nd level or higher a Pugilist can avoid damage from many area-effect attacks. If a pugilist makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a Pugilist is not wearing medium or heavy armor or carrying a medium or heavy load.
Fast Movement
Starting at 2nd level the Pugilist gains a +10 enhancement bonus to his movement speed. This bonus increases by +10 every 4 levels (6th, 10th, 14th, 18th). At 14th level the Pugilist gains Spider Step as a bonus feat without having to meet the prerequisites; however, instead of moving half his slow fall speed the Pugilist may move half his total speed (including his enhancement bonus to speed). At 18th level, the Pugilist gains Cloud Step as a bonus feats without having to meet the prerequisites; however, instead of moving half his slow fall speed the Pugilist instead moves half his total speed (including his enhancement bonus to speed).
Cover Up
At 3rd level, the aggression placed upon the Pugilist forces him to learn to roll with the punches or be killed by his armed foes. The pugilist gains damage reduction 1/— and it increases by +1 every three levels (2/— at 6th level, 3/— at 9th level, maxing out at 5/— at 15th level.) A pugilist loses this ability if he wears medium or heavy armor or is carrying a medium or heavy load.
Extreme Endurance
At 5th level, a Pugilist gains immunity to fatigue. At 10th level, he also gains immunity to exhaustion. At 15th level, he gains immunity to stunning. At 20th level, he gains immunity to death effects and energy drain.
Clever Wrestler
At 7th level, a Pugilist takes no penalties to Dexterity or on attack rolls while grappled, and retains his Dexterity bonus to AC while pinning an opponent. The Pugilist can make attacks of opportunity even when grappled and even against creatures attempting to grapple him if the opponent has the Improved Grapple feat or the grab ability.
Improved Invasion
At 11th level, a Pugilist's evasion ability improves. He still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Defensive Roll
At 13th level, a martial artist may use the defensive roll advanced rogue talent once per day, plus once per three levels beyond 13th (to a maximum of 3 times a day at 19th level).
Death Blow
At 17th level, once per day the Pugilist makes a melee touch attack against a defending character. If the attack hits, then the defending character must make a Fortitude save against a DC that is equal to 10+the Pugilist level. If the defending character fails its saving throw, then the defending character dies.
Greater Defensive Roll
At 19th level, a Pugilist suffers no damage on a successful defensive roll, and only half damage if the Reflex saving throw fails.
Ok that is everything I got. I know it isn't all that original and is more of a hodge podge of abilities from several different classes, but I think it is interesting and works well.
This is still too 'kung fu' for me.
I want a puglist that's a brawler not a spiritual martial artist.
Stuff like Defensive Roll and Death Blow don't fit the thematic for me.
That's fine. I admit I may need to change the name as he does end up being more Bruce Lee than Muhammad Ali.
Actually, now that I think about it their was a d20 modern supplement that covers various martial arts styles, Boxing among them. I could probably take some pointers from it and mix in some base fighter to make it work out (Full base attack bonus, d10 hit die, more skills, 2 good saves, with fighter weapon training with Unarmed strikes, probably with the original Pugilist unarmed fighting, and some extras thrown in as mentioned above).
Found a Simpler Solution. Replace the above 13th, 17th, and 19th level abilities with the following. Keep the name as Pugilist.
Deadly Critical
At 13th level, a Pugilist automatically confirms critical hits with his unarmed strikes and increases the critical threat range of his unarmed strikes by one.
Shake It Off
At 17th level, when a Pugilist makes a saving throw to recover from an ongoing effect, he may roll twice and choose the better roll.
Sheer Toughness
At 19th level, a Pugilist becomes immune to nonlethal damage and the dazed, shaken, and staggered conditions.
Drop Fast Movement for the following.
Dirty Maneuvers
At 2nd level, a Pugilist becomes skilled at deceiving and discomfiting his opponents. The Pugilist gains a +1 bonus on disarm, dirty trick, and steal combat maneuver checks. The Pugilist also gains a +1 bonus to CMD when attacked with the disarm, dirty trick, and steal combat maneuvers. These bonuses increase by 1 for every four levels after 2nd (to a maximum of +5 at 18th level). At 6th level the Pugilist may use disarm, dirty trick, and steal combat maneuvers without provoking an attack of opportunity.
Drop Clever Wrestler for the Following
Float Like a Butterfly, Sting Like a Bee
At 7th level, a Pugilist constantly harries and distracts his enemies. While adjacent to the Pugilist, enemies take a –1 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty on concentration checks. These penalties increase by 1 for every four levels after 7th level (to a maximum of –4 on attack rolls and –7 on concentration checks at 19th level). Creatures do not take these penalties if the brawler is helpless, or unconscious.
Full class changes based on the above.
Pugilist
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10
Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge Local, Perception, Profession, Since Motive, and Swim
Skill Ranks Per Level: 4+Intelligence Modifier
BAB: Full
Saves: Good Fort, Good Reflex, Poor Will
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Pugilists are only proficient with unarmed strikes and all light armor but not shields. If a Pugilist wears medium or heavy armor they lose Evasion, Improved Evasion, and Fast Movement.
Slugger
At 1st level, the Pugilist gains the Improved Unarmed Strike Feat as A Bonus Feat. Your unarmed strike damage die becomes 1d6 if small sized, 1d8 if medium sized, and 1d10 if large sized. At 4th level the pugilist gains a +1 enhancement bonus to all unarmed attacks, and this enhancement bonus increases by +1 every 4 levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th).
A Pugilist's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A Pugilist may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.
A Pugilist's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
Bar Knuckle Training
Starting at 1st level a Pugilist may use his Hit Dice as his BAB for his CMB and CMD. At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th) a Pugilist gains Combat feats as Bonus feats, and may use his Pugilist level in place of his Fighter level when qualifying for fighter only combat feats.
Evasion
At 2nd level or higher a Pugilist can avoid damage from many area-effect attacks. If a pugilist makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a Pugilist is not wearing medium or heavy armor or carrying a medium or heavy load.
Unflinching
At 2nd level, a Pugilist gains a +1 bonus on Will saves against mind-affecting effects. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels after 2nd level (to a maximum of +5 at 18th level).
Cover Up
At 3rd level, the aggression placed upon the Pugilist forces him to learn to roll with the punches or be killed by his armed foes. The pugilist gains damage reduction 1/— and it increases by +1 every three levels (2/— at 6th level, 3/— at 9th level, maxing out at 5/— at 15th level.) A pugilist loses this ability if he wears medium or heavy armor or is carrying a medium or heavy load.
Extreme Endurance
At 5th level, a Pugilist gains immunity to fatigue. At 10th level, he also gains immunity to exhaustion. At 15th level, he gains immunity to stunning. At 20th level, he gains immunity to death effects and energy drain.
Float Like a Butterfly, Sting Like a Bee
At 7th level, a Pugilist constantly harries and distracts his enemies. While adjacent to the Pugilist, enemies take a –1 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty on concentration checks. These penalties increase by 1 for every four levels after 7th level (to a maximum of –4 on attack rolls and –7 on concentration checks at 19th level). Creatures do not take these penalties if the Pugilist is helpless, or unconscious.
Improved Evasion
At 11th level, a Pugilist's evasion ability improves. He still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Deadly Critical
At 13th level, a Pugilist automatically confirms critical hits with his unarmed strikes and increases the critical threat range of his unarmed strikes by one.
Shake It Off
At 17th level, when a Pugilist makes a saving throw to recover from an ongoing effect, he may roll twice and choose the better roll.
Sheer Toughness
At 19th level, a Pugilist becomes immune to nonlethal damage and the dazed, shaken, and staggered conditions.
This should be closer to Muhammad Ali.