Misfortune and Misfortune and Ill Omen (aka "How awful, dear!")

[Unmitigated]

Oracle - Misfortune (Ex): At 1st level, as an immediate action, you can force a creature within 30 feet to reroll any one d20 roll that it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed. The creature must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll. Once a creature has suffered from your misfortune, it cannot be the target of this revelation again for 1 day.

Witch - Misfortune (Su): The witch can cause a creature within 30 feet to suffer grave misfortune for 1 round. Anytime the creature makes an ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, it must roll twice and take the worse result. A Will save negates this hex. At 8th level and 16th level, the duration of this hex is extended by 1 round. This hex affects all rolls the target must make while it lasts. Whether or not the save is successful, a creature cannot be the target of this hex again for 1 day.

Ill Omen (Witch/Dual-Cursed Oracle 1): You afflict the target with bad luck. On the next d20 roll the target makes, it must roll twice and take the less favorable result. For every five caster levels you have, the target must roll twice on an additional d20 roll (to a maximum of five rolls at 20th level).

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I am a dual-cursed oracle. The two standard actions prior to mine are to afflict the goblin with Misfortune hex, and to cast a CL 1 Ill Omen on him. I then cast an unpleasant spell on him (let's say... Color Spray because in this example I'm a Heavens oracle). He somehow succeeds (rolling 3 dice and taking the lowest), and I want to use Misfortune (DualCursed Oracle) on him as an Immediate. How many dice does he roll?

[chaoseffect]

Wiyh both Witch Misfortune and Ill Omen, it looks like he would roll 3 times and take the worst. The Oracle Misfortune says you can force a creature to reroll any ONE d20 roll, so it looks like you would pick the roll you dislike the most and make him reroll that one.

[Buri]

But they take the reroll regardless even if it turns an 8 into a 20.

[EvilMinion]

None... you can't use the oracle Misfortune once the results of the roll are known (ie: he saved!) You have to decide whether to use it after each individual d20 is rolled.

If you wanted to use it before you knew he saved, the description is fairly clear, that you only get to force one single d20 reroll (the fact he had to roll 3 d20's doesn't change the fact you only get to force him to reroll one of those).

[Buri]

It'd be handy if they rolled two 20s. :-D

[Caderyn]

I dont even see why they would be rolling 3 d20's originally, both misfortune and ill omen force the creature to roll 2d20 for any effect and take the worst, neither of them would stack.

And the oracle skill could then be used to reroll any one of the 2 dice rolled

[Zakur Opzan]

Unmitigated wrote:

Ill Omen (Witch/Dual-Cursed Oracle 1): You afflict the target with bad luck. On the next d20 roll the target makes, it must roll twice and take the less favorable result. For every five caster levels you have, the target must roll twice on an additional d20 roll (to a maximum of five rolls at 20th level).

Bold mine- It would only affect the next d20 roll, so if you used it in the round prior it might be used up if that creature attacked. If that creature also had misfortune hex, it would be 4d20 and lowest on the attack roll.

EDIT: It may look more like this....roll 2d20. Take the lesser result then roll an additional d20 and take the lesser of the 2.... and if you didnt like that roll immediately have them reroll the d20, but the reroll must be used even if it is higher. This would negate the whole idea of misfortune...unless you were able to utilize the misfortune hex on the misfortune revelation, which would force 2 rolls as the hex says "for any d20 roll and take the lower result".
Dang, i wish that didn't sound so confusing! (regardless talk it over with your GM as I have found out GM's HATE the misfortune hex...)

[Unmitigated]

I think the reason that there isn't a satisfactory answer to this IMO, is there isn't a defined reading of "reroll" in the pathfinder system. I think that some people are reading "reroll a d20 roll" as "reroll an individual 20 sided die that was rolled for a roll" and I am reading it as "reroll a roll that uses a d20" - of which the difference is the former uses the game term to define a physical object used, whereas the latter uses "d20 roll" as a descriptor of a type of roll (d20 versus damage or percentile rolls that can be of other dice - not limiting a roll to attack, skill, ability, etc).

As I read it, "reroll a d20 roll" would cause whomever it was targetted on to attempt the check, save, etc, as if it had never happened, whereas "reroll a d20" would pick up an individual die and roll it with the same modifiers (and in my opinion would still qualify as "a d20 roll" and be modified accordingly).

[TGMaxMaxer]

To know what would happen we really need to know how they got cast in sequence and by whom.

Mainly because the witch hex lasts for one round, takes a standard. Ill Omen lasts one round, takes a standard. Since you are casting Color spray at CL 1,and fighting a goblin, i'm guessing that you're not able to get the 1 round bump to them from being level 5 or 8. i'm also assuming that either you also cast ill omen, or the witch used hex and ill omen, either way, one effect is over before you can use another standard to cast color spray. If in fact you have 2 witches or 2 oracles in the group, then maybe you have a reason to try and get both abilities to work on your color spray.

In which case, the misfortune makes them roll 2d20 everytime they would roll one, and take the lower result. Ill omen makes them roll 2d20 every time they would roll one, and take the lower result.

As someone said above, this would cause them to save vs color spray, rolling 1d20 as a result. Misfortune makes them roll 2, and take the lowest, and ill omen would make them roll 2 for the lowest of those, taking the lowest.

The end result, they roll 3d20, taking the lowest roll, announcing the total (if they announce the result of the save you cannot use the forced reroll, only after the die roll) and you would then get to decide to make them reroll that. Which, procs misfortune again since they are still in the same round rolling 2 times and taking the lowest, since Ill Omen only works on the next roll, it has already been used up.

[Unmitigated]

My question ultimately comes down to whether the reroll is a subsequent interative roll - i.e. is it the same roll (would preserve/only use 1 "instance" of ill omen) or is it a 2nd roll. If it is a 2nd roll, why?