Girallon question

[Papa-DRB]

We had a rules question last night, and although it was ruled on the spot but we are looking for suggestions on how it might have been handled.

A Girallon has:

Special Attacks rend (4 claws, 1d4+6)

Rend works if two or more natural attacks hit so with 5 attacks lets say:

The bite and one claw hits. Ok, he rends (1).
Three claws hit, he rends (2).

For case 1 and 2 *how* many of his rend claws does he get?

We ruled that each claw that hit, rends, and he couldn't rend with claws that missed, so it case (1), 1 rend claw, and in case (2), 3 rend claws.

Is this the correct interpretation of the rules or is the another interpretation that makes more sense.

-- david
Papa.DRB

[Alan_Beven]

The description of rend specifies how many of what must hit to trigger the rend. In this case all 4 claws must hit as per the description, and if all 4 hit you take an additional 1d4+6.

[Papa-DRB]

Alan_Beven wrote:

The description of rend specifies how many of what must hit to trigger the rend. In this case all 4 claws must hit as per the description, and if all 4 hit you take an additional 1d4+6.

So you are saying, "all four claws must hit" and then and only then there is an additional *just* 1d4+6 damage?

If that is the case, WOW, have we been playing that wrong!!!! We have been giving the number of attacks in the rend description!

-- david
Papa.DRB

[Alan_Beven]

Papa-DRB wrote:

Alan_Beven wrote:

The description of rend specifies how many of what must hit to trigger the rend. In this case all 4 claws must hit as per the description, and if all 4 hit you take an additional 1d4+6.

So you are saying, "all four claws must hit" and then and only then there is an additional *just* 1d4+6 damage?

If that is the case, WOW, have we been playing that wrong!!!! We have been giving the number of attacks in the rend description!

-- david
Papa.DRB

Yup. Check out Rend. The key sentence is where it says "The types of attacks that must hit And the additional damage are included in the creature's description".

[James Arel]

My reading of this rule is that the rend only applies to the claw attacks and not the bite. So, if any two of the claws hit then you get the rend.

[Snakebearer]

Melee bite +10 (1d6+4), 4 claws +10 (1d4+4 plus rend)

Special Attacks rend (4 claws, 1d4+6)

The rules of Rend says that if two or more attacks hit the indicated damage is dealt. The bold part of the statistics only reads which Type of attack that needs to hit to inflict the rend damage, not the amount of attacks.
This damage can only be dealt once per round. This would mean that if a Girallon hits with one claw during its turn, and later (or before its turn, as long as its during the same round) makes an AoO and hits, the extra damage should be dealt as well. This also prevents the Girallon to deal this extra damage twice if it hits with 4 claws.

[Papa-DRB]

I think that Alan_Beven is correct, and I found an entry in the Bestiary 3 that helped me come to that conclusion.

Cerberi

Melee 3 bites +11 (1d6+4 plus cerberus's jaws)
Special Attacks rend (2 bites, 1d6+4 or 3 bites, 1d6+8)

Notice that the rend damage is *different* depending on how many of its bite attacks hit.

Also, even thought rend says "two or more natural attacks", there is the sentence that says "The types of attacks that must hit and the additional damage are included in the creature's description".

Yes, it is a bit confusing, but I am fairly sure that Alan is correct, and at least at my table, when I am the DM that is how I am going to play it.

I am also going to FAQ this post, and maybe the dev's will see it and answer it at some point.

-- david
Papa.DRB